News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
MisterPenguin said:
At 75,000 signatures, it has reached 0.19% the yearly attendance of MK and DL!

But some of those are repeat customers, so, let's call it 0.5% of the yearly attendance of MK and DL.

The Disney Parks Instagram post announcing it has over 101,000 likes.
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I'm sorry, my numbers are off. That's just the Disney Parks Instagram. The WDW Instragram post is a little bit higher in likes...

 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
RSoxNo1 said:
Agreed, I'm softening on the thematic break. It's really no different than Splash. The biggest thing is the original concept of Liberty Square into Frontierland had a chronology taking place (not necessarily a specific location) and that chronology was disrupted as soon as Splash opened.
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Adding PatF and reimagining the western strip mall could allow them to bring back the chronology.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
tl;dr -- Disney's not likely to add more 'frontier' themed attractions... ever.


Sorry to be bearer of bad news, but, without getting too much into politics, the whole 'frontier' paradigm is going to be more and more... problematic.

The sanitized notion of 'the frontier' which is of one of conquering wild nature -- while ignoring what happened to the Indians, or, making the Indians the bad guys -- isn't going to fly anymore.

The popular genre of The Western which had its heyday from pulp novels to silent films to talkies to television lasted almost a century, but has fallen out of favor with the exception of modern films dealing with very adult themes that would be out of place for Disney parks. The old Wild West stories of Hollywood no longer take place in the Wild West, they take place in such places like a galaxy far, far away (The Mandalorian).

Attempts to make G-Rated frontier movies popular fizzle (Disney's Lone Ranger and Call of the Wild). How many avid Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett fans are left? There are no Disney IPs based in 'the frontier' that are both popular and family-friendly (and avoid problematic stereotypes). And if they create their own brand new story and leave out the warts of history... Disney will be pilloried.

Disney itself has de-Wild-Westernized and Frontierland over the decades.

BTMR works in that it's set in "The West" at a certain time and deals solely with the events at one particular mine without getting into Manifest Destiny, Expansionism, or Colonialism. In the "more Disney" era, there isn't going to be another attraction like that without an IP attached to justify a budget... and there are no popular IPs available which aren't problematic. Perhaps something purely geographical like a Yellowstone attraction might work... but, where's the IP for it?

I've suggested that the whole area from HM to Liberty Square to BTMR to PotC be renamed to "The American Experience." A more encompassing theme makes disparate element 'fit' better, IMO.
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Yes, this is the best way forward. Emphasis placed more on the natural world and great achievements that have benefited all while acknowledging errors in some respect. It is Disney, so emphasis on the positive will always be the priority.

There are no perfect human endeavors because there are no perfect humans. Including anyone reading this.
 
C

celluloid

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
Yes, this is the best way forward. Emphasis placed more on the natural world and great achievements that have benefited all while acknowledging errors in some respect. It is Disney, so emphasis on the positive will always be the priority.

There are no perfect human endeavors because there are no perfect humans. Including anyone reading this.
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Well said.

It shows how great the words of Disneyland's opening by Marty Sklar are.
"To all who come to this happy place: welcome. Disneyland is your land. Here age relives fond memories of the past...and here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future. Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the which have created America ... with the hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world."
I don't think the "hard facts" part is completely incidental.

Again, I don't think the hard facts part applies to being without a lense of entertainment and wonderous fiction, but there is a balance in truth but telling it slant. We still have the stockades as a photo op in Liberty Square and pirates about to burn to death in their jail cell if they don't get the keys.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
Well said.

It shows how great the words of Disneyland's opening by Marty Sklar are.
"To all who come to this happy place: welcome. Disneyland is your land. Here age relives fond memories of the past...and here youth may savor the challenge and promise of the future. Disneyland is dedicated to the ideals, the dreams and the which have created America ... with the hope that it will be a source of joy and inspiration to all the world."
I don't think the "hard facts" part is completely incidental.

Again, I don't think the hard facts part applies to being without a lense of entertainment and wonderous fiction, but there is a balance in truth but telling it slant. We still have the stockades as a photo op in Liberty Square and pirates about to burn to death in their jail cell if they don't get the keys.
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Now that Disney has Disney+ they can explore more difficult truths responsibly. But it is also okay to create escapist entertainment as they do in the parks for everyone to enjoy. I think they will meet that standard.
 
SpaceMountain77

SpaceMountain77

Well-Known Member
I was thinking about the American Waterfront at Tokyo DisneySea. There are two themed areas, Cape Cod and New York Harbor. If Liberty Square and Frontierland merged to become the American Waterfront, then the front could remain Boston Harbor and Frontierland could be reimagined to transition into New Orleans Square.
 
Magicart87

Magicart87

No Refunds!
Premium Member
mandstaft said:
So what’s next with the new name? Guys running around saying, “I want to ride Tiana!”
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I would like to tell you that you've probably eliminated an naming option but given that people can ride A.S.S. in DHS I wouldn't put it past WDI to come up with something like that and hope it slips past Mouse Corp.

If that's the case, I'll suggest: Tiana's New Orleans Adventure. Or TNA for short.
 
R

Ravenclaw78

Well-Known Member
Magicart87 said:
I would like to tell you that you've probably eliminated an naming option but given that people can ride A.S.S. in DHS I wouldn't put it past WDI to come up with something like that and hope it slips past Mouse Corp.

If that's the case, I'll suggest: Tiana's New Orleans Adventure. Or TNA for short.
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Don't forget to catch a showing of M.I.L.F. over in Tomorrowland
 
NolanVboom

NolanVboom

New Member
A higher res version of my concept to make a bayou themed area connecting Frontierland and Adventureland. Ride scene by scene concepts coming soon. Reply any ideas!
 

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Magicart87

Magicart87

No Refunds!
Premium Member
NolanVboom said:
A higher res version of my concept to make a bayou themed area connecting Frontierland and Adventureland. Ride scene by scene concepts coming soon. Reply any ideas!
Click to expand...

That's pretty much got it! I'd want the transition areas to be a bit larger though, almost hub-like and maybe something extra behind Splash Mountain (this would be a good spot for an elaborate M&G, how great would a froggy transformation effect be?) But overall that's more in-line with what they should do. I doubt we'll see it happen given what others are saying about budgets but we can always hope TDO and WDI does right by it. PatF should be properly integrated into MK's offerings. To plop it down, while acceptable is still kind of a disservice to it and the surrounding land.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Magicart87 said:
That's pretty much got it! I'd want the transition areas to be a bit larger though, almost hub-like and maybe something extra behind Splash Mountain (this would be a good spot for an elaborate M&G, how great would a froggy transformation effect be?) But overall that's more in-line with what they should do. I doubt we'll see it happen given what others are saying about budgets but we can always hope TDO and WDI does right by it. PatF should be properly integrated into MK's offerings. To plop it down, while acceptable is still kind of a disservice to it and the surrounding land.
Click to expand...

Fully integrating the IP into the park should be high on the list of priorities IMO. And not very difficult for Imagineering since the park is designed for doing so. I'm very optimistic they will succeed.
 
Sir_Cliff

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
tl;dr -- Disney's not likely to add more 'frontier' themed attractions... ever.


Sorry to be bearer of bad news, but, without getting too much into politics, the whole 'frontier' paradigm is going to be more and more... problematic.

The sanitized notion of 'the frontier' which is of one of conquering wild nature -- while ignoring what happened to the Indians, or, making the Indians the bad guys -- isn't going to fly anymore.

The popular genre of The Western which had its heyday from pulp novels to silent films to talkies to television lasted almost a century, but has fallen out of favor with the exception of modern films dealing with very adult themes that would be out of place for Disney parks. The old Wild West stories of Hollywood no longer take place in the Wild West, they take place in such places like a galaxy far, far away (The Mandalorian).

Attempts to make G-Rated frontier movies popular fizzle (Disney's Lone Ranger and Call of the Wild). How many avid Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett fans are left? There are no Disney IPs based in 'the frontier' that are both popular and family-friendly (and avoid problematic stereotypes). And if they create their own brand new story and leave out the warts of history... Disney will be pilloried.

Disney itself has de-Wild-Westernized and de-Frontierized the land over the decades.

BTMR works in that it's set in "The West" at a certain time and deals solely with the events at one particular mine without getting into Manifest Destiny, Expansionism, or Colonialism. In the "more Disney" era, there isn't going to be another attraction like that without an IP attached to justify a budget... and there are no popular IPs available which aren't problematic. Perhaps something purely geographical like a Yellowstone attraction might work... but, where's the IP for it?

I've suggested that the whole area from HM to Liberty Square to BTMR to PotC be renamed to "The American Experience." A more encompassing theme makes disparate element 'fit' better, IMO.
Click to expand...
I am glad to see you bring this up. I have been curious how some broader themes in the parks that are suddenly a little awkward will be handled, but I am a bit wary of feeding a slippery slope narrative or seeming like I am calling for dramatic changes.

It is interesting how much the bones of the Magic Kingdom parks reflect a quintessentially mid-twentieth-century US world view and it's mostly remarkable how well most of the whole package still resonates with people from all over the world in 2020. Times and social attitudes naturally change, however, and it's a bit of a tightrope walk for Disney to balance addressing these changes without ruining the enduring appeal of the model laid down in the 1950s.

Adventureland is another interesting case as there a whole host of things about that land that could be flagged as "problematic" without really digging very far. For one thing, it groups virtually all non-Western countries into one category of "exotic" places and has a similar colonial framing as Frontierland. Then, of course, there are some representations of different people and cultures.

The idea of "Adventure", though, still appeals and they're going to have to make it work. I suspect they'll just tidy up the most awkward aspects of the lands and reorient them toward less controversial themes with any future additions (e.g. more singing pirates and Indiana Jones, and less African tribes).
 
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stratman50th

stratman50th

Well-Known Member
Just wondering how they're going to accomplish the retheme to make it fit. I haven't seen a lot of mountains, hills and waterfalls in the bayous of Louisiana. Especially near New Orleans.
 

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