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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - attraction discussion only

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
I have been pretty active in the Splash Mountain threads and don't recall anyone championing him as an individual. One can broadly agree with his view that a retheme is in order without liking him. I certainly wouldn't imply (as he seems to be doing in the tweet you shared) that those who enjoy the current version are racist.

I think what some think (I can’t speak for others just my interpretation) is not that those who like Splash as it is are racist, but those who are dismissing the reasoning behind the changes due to their own nostalgia and dismissing the views of the Black community is a racist tactic, steeped in privilege.

You love splash, I love splash - but we both know the ride has to be changed.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Lack of proper context at the beginning of the film explaining that it indeed took place in the reconstruction era. That’s really what’s caused the majority of the problem I think. People not looking at it through proper/intended context (see “viewing/taking things out of context”) and what Walt & the rest of the filmmakers behind it originally envisioned/intended.
I actually meant that the African Americans depicted in the film behave as happy slaves even though they are technically free. The whole plantation is portrayed as an idyllic setting in which black people exist only to serve white people and are very happy doing so.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
those who are dismissing the reasoning behind the changes due to their own nostalgia and dismissing the views of the Black community is a racist tactic, steeped in privilege.

You love splash, I love splash - but we both know the ride has to be changed.
This I agree with, though I would add that most people aren’t aware that it’s a racist or privileged position, which is what makes it so pernicious.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
This I agree with, though I would add that most people aren’t aware that it’s a racist or privileged position, which is what makes it so pernicious.

Precisely why it is so important to shut up and listen (shut up not geared toward anyone, just in general).

You spoke brilliantly about how you listened to members of this forum from the BIPOC community, and their feelings on this, that’s what we need to do.

We have to get off our soap boxes, and give our attention to them, what they think, feel, and need.
 
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disneyglimpses

Well-Known Member
It is entirely possible (not likely, but possible) that the entire controversy surrounding Song of the South would not exist if not for this single line. This is where the term 'happy slaves' (Chapek's words, not mine) derives from.

1623952198285.png
 

disneyglimpses

Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t this line be him transitioning into telling the stories of Br’er Rabbit? “Where the humans and the critters co-mingled with eachother”? This isn’t in reference to the time of slavery, it’s in reference to a time before that.
It absolutely is up to interpretation. And many chose to interpret that line as him speaking about slavery. I agree with your interpretation.
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
Like I pointed to before… “taking things out of/not knowing the context intended”. That’s exactly where the issues stem regarding the film.
I genuinely feel that if we were to see all the filmmakers notes, hear the story behind the film’s creation, & knew their intentions. It’d help clear nearly everything up for everybody.
 
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disneyglimpses

Well-Known Member
Like I pointed to before… “taking things out of the context intended”. That’s exactly where the issues stem regarding the film.
I genuinely feel that if we were to see all the filmmakers notes, hear the story behind the film’s creation, & know their intention. It’d help clear nearly everything up for everybody.
I also see people use the term "stereotypes" regarding the film. An odd word selection considering literally every single actor/actress portrays a stereotype of the character they are playing; that is literally how film/acting works.
 

GimpYancIent

Well-Known Member
It has been a couple of decades at least since I last saw SoS and the only thing I have ever gotten out of it was the ground breaking cinematic work blending live actors w animation at a time the technical capabilities really did not exist. Now there are special effects and CGI that put SoS's effects to shame but at the time it was ground breaking. The tune Zippi Di Do Da to me is not toe tapping but excellent background sound (kind of like elevator music). That's about all I got out of it and splash, to me, is just a fun ride I never got wrapped up in the theming.
 

disneyglimpses

Well-Known Member
NAACP's comment around the release of the film is likely a contributing factor:

“The NAACP regrets, however, that in an effort neither to offend audiences in the North or South, the production helps to perpetuate a dangerously glorified picture of slavery … [the film] unfortunately gives the impression of an idyllic master-slave relationship, which is a distortion of the facts.”
 

Inspired Figment

Well-Known Member
NAACP's comment around the release of the film is likely a contributing factor:

“The NAACP regrets, however, that in an effort neither to offend audiences in the North or South, the production helps to perpetuate a dangerously glorified picture of slavery … [the film] unfortunately gives the impression of an idyllic master-slave relationship, which is a distortion of the facts.”
Yep.. and it still goes back to the film not being viewed through the context/the way the filmmakers’ initially intended it I believe. It was not intended to be a glorified look at the South during the time of slavery, but rather the reconstruction era and a Disneyified version of the Joel Chandler Harris Uncle Remus book . Where in that particular regard, the issue many people have with that (which I understand) is that I don’t think the proper credit & focus in regards to legacy was given to the actual people who actually wrote the stories, but rather the person who collected those stories & published them. In all honesty ‘that’ problem would/could also be fairly simple to fix but yeah..
 
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LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Like I pointed to before… “taking things out of/not knowing the context intended”. That’s exactly where the issues stem regarding the film.
I genuinely feel that if we were to see all the filmmakers notes, hear the story behind the film’s creation, & knew their intentions. It’d help clear nearly everything up for everybody.
Far from helping your argument that the problem is with those who’ve taken things out of context, the film’s production history simply underscores the extent to which African-American voices have been sidelined in this debate:

According to the Jan. 6, 1946 The Daily Worker, both Clarence Muse and Rhythm and Blues band leader Tiny Bradshaw turned down roles in the film because they felt the picture would be "detrimental to the cultural advancement of the Negro people." Bradshaw declared it would “set back my people many years.”​

Disney had hired Clarence Muse in 1944 to offer advice on the production. He was an African-American lawyer, writer, director, composer, and actor. Disgusted with the poor opportunities for black lawyers he then selected a show business career.​

Unfortunately, Muse quit Disney early in 1944 after his ideas to portray the African-American characters in the film as more dignified and prosperous were rejected by Southern writer Dalton Reymond. Once Muse left Disney, he began to inform people about the nature of the Disney feature while it was still in the rough draft outline and before radical leftist screenwriter, Maurice Rapf had been brought in to make the script more acceptable.​

Muse wrote letters to the editors of black publications that Disney was going to depict Negroes in an inferior capacity and that the film was "detrimental to the cultural advancement of the Negro people."​

 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Wouldn’t this line of dialogue be him transitioning into telling the stories of Br’er Rabbit? “Where the humans and the critters co-mingled with eachother”? That isn’t in reference to the time of slavery, it’s in reference to a time before that.
It absolutely is up to interpretation. And many chose to interpret that line as him speaking about slavery. I agree with your interpretation.
Yes, in its proper context the line is clearly referring specifically to the Brer Rabbit fable. It's even used to directly transition into it (there's literally a crossfade into the cartoon segment while the line is being said). It makes zero sense as meaning "we were better off as slaves".
 
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Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
I think it's interesting that Chapek mentioned how highly rated Splash is. I guess it's not too surprising though, I think I remember @lentesta saying it was the highest rated ride in MK, but I could be misremembering.

From a chart in the 2021 Unofficial Guide I mentioned before;

While Splash Mountain is is most age groups top 10 (excluding pre schoolers and teens), the most popular ride by group is as follows:

Pre Schoolers: Buzz Lightyear
Grade Schoolers: Buzz Lightyear
Teens: Big Thunder Mountain
Young Adults: Big Thunder Mountain
Over 30: Haunted Mansion
Seniors: Haunted Mansion

Note the above is rides, not attractions. Happily Ever After ranks as #1 for most groups.
 

owlsandcoffee

Well-Known Member
From a chart in the 2021 Unofficial Guide I mentioned before;

While Splash Mountain is is most age groups top 10 (excluding pre schoolers and teens), the most popular ride by group is as follows:

Pre Schoolers: Buzz Lightyear
Grade Schoolers: Buzz Lightyear
Teens: Big Thunder Mountain
Young Adults: Big Thunder Mountain
Over 30: Haunted Mansion
Seniors: Haunted Mansion

Note the above is rides, not attractions. Happily Ever After ranks as #1 for most groups.

Really says a lot. The priorities are fun, thrills, and entertainment. I have a feeling most people will find those things in the new Splash Mountain.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Really says a lot. The priorities are fun, thrills, and entertainment. I have a feeling most people will find those things in the new Splash Mountain.

I will say though that the main reasons people either skip the ride or don't choose it as a favourite (the big drop, getting wet, young children who aren't tall enough) will still be there regardless of what story it tells.
 

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