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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - attraction discussion only

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Re: Budget
Even is $50 M is the number (which I honestly don’t know, but it sounds a little too low to me).
Remember that the exterior isn’t even changing too much, and one of the reason Frozenstrom had issues was the ride infrastructure (which I believe Splash’s many refurbishments have already done the brunt of the work on).
I don't know the exact budget for the Frozen ride. Photodave again said Frozen at Epcot was $75 mil back in 2014 (apparently after receiving a massive budget cut). I believe this included the restrooms and meet n greet next door, though i'm not 100% sure. I was just posting the $50 mil number as a ballpark figure for what seemed to make sense.

As I said, the other number I heard for PATF (which again didn't come from WDW Pro) was SIGNIFICANTLY lower than $50 mil. Even if the ride system doesn't really need any work, we're still probably looking at a gutting and replacement of at least 90% of the interior scenes and animatronics. The only scene I could see not really needing too much alteration is the Riverboat finale (the animatronics there will still probably be removed though).

Splash Mtn is much longer and contains far more scenes than Maelstrom ever did. The scenes are also way more detailed and packed with AA's than Maelstrom's. So it'll look even worse by comparison if the overhaul doesn't add back in a similar level of physical detail and figures to what it currently holds. Something that I feel is reasonable to say isn't possible with a $50 mil budget (let alone a lesser amount). Heck I think it's extremely unlikely they could do it on a $100 mil budget.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
Most of the splash mountain ride is an animatronic Song of the South attraction which has almost zero relevance today (hardly anyone under 50 has even seen it outside of Disney fanatics). They can have an entire storyline of PATF play out in the attraction part of the ride, culminating in the splash leading to the big wedding and then restaurant the end.
 

MickeyMouse10

Well-Known Member
I don't see the idea of trying to create a "New Orleans Square" area and extend to POTC - MK's POTC looks fantastic in Adventureland and I would strongly argue that the Spanish fort look (and queue) is a big step up from DL's POTC facade.

If the powers that be wanted to create a New Orleans type area in MK, they should do it around the back of Splash, incorperating the RR station and then adding a restaurant/shops on that area - even building over the canal if needed.

The New Orleans Square ideas I've heard are 1) a retheme of Golden Oaks and Pecos or 2) my genius idea of putting it on the left side of the tracks.
 

UpAllNight

Well-Known Member
How can Thunder Mountain work with the discussed changes, given the layout in Orlando?

This seems Perfect for DL, but so so out of place in WDW.
 

MickeyMouse10

Well-Known Member
How can Thunder Mountain work with the discussed changes, given the layout in Orlando?

This seems Perfect for DL, but so so out of place in WDW.

If there's no New Orleans Square then it makes no sense. That's why it's been talked about in this thread and other places.

However, however... however Peco's cannot be a casualty of this retheme, it takes up a big part of Frontierland. You can't mosey through a New Orleans quick service that is also in Frontierland. It doesn't make any sense.... it would be anarchy.
 

MickeyMouse10

Well-Known Member
then you just have yet another toy story land which we dont need

Would we really???

Buzz is in Tomorrowland, Star Wars is in Disneyland's Tomorrowland and Galaxy's Edge. Plus you have countless other IP's in various parks. Ariel, Finding Nemo, Beauty and the Beast, etc, etc, etc.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Re: Budget
Even is $50 M is the number (which I honestly don’t know, but it sounds a little too low to me).
Remember that the exterior isn’t even changing too much, and one of the reason Frozenstrom had issues was the ride infrastructure (which I believe Splash’s many refurbishments have already done the brunt of the work on).

Didn't they also redo the entire queue/boarding? As in, not just the theming of it, but where the queue actually went through the pavilion. That's another expense they shouldn't have for Splash Mountain.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
What does Festival of the Lion King have to do with anything (which isn't even a ride so it's not exactly comparable)?

I said Frozen Ever After because I specifically meant Frozen Ever After. A ride with a few impressive AAs and literally nothing else; an overall design failure from start to finish. It's one of the worst rides at WDW. Is that what you want Splash Mountain to become?

Don't set up straw men.

And what you said about FEA applies to FotLK: No plot. It's just a celebration. You didn't mention a lack of AA,

And what Phineas said about FEA applies to FotLK: "Greatest hits".
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
And what you said about FEA applies to FotLK: No plot. It's just a celebration. You didn't mention a lack of AA, so, who's strawmanning now?

And what Phineas said about FEA applies to FotLK: "Greatest hits".

It's not a ride. Again, I said nothing about Festival of the Lion King -- which, by the way, I do not like, but that's irrelevant to the point I was making because it's a different attraction and, more importantly, a different medium.

It may have been better to call it a red herring than a straw man, though. I said something about one specific attraction, and you immediately brought up an entirely separate attraction that is completely unrelated to what I said.

In simple terms -- I think Frozen Ever After is a bad ride because it has no plot and no detail; there's far too much empty space. I do not want the Princess and the Frog ride to have a similar lack of plot and detail.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
If there's no New Orleans Square then it makes no sense. That's why it's been talked about in this thread and other places.

However, however... however Peco's cannot be a casualty of this retheme, it takes up a big part of Frontierland. You can't mosey through a New Orleans quick service that is also in Frontierland. It doesn't make any sense.... it would be anarchy.
I mean, New Orleans Square was initially intended to be a mini-land subset of Frontierland. By the time it opened it had enough substance on the menu to be properly referred to as its own land, but still always sort of fell under the umbrella of Frontierland.

The layout of Frontierland at WDW isn't the most conducive to effective transitions from "The Old West" to New Orleans (and back again, as it seems the case would almost have to be), but you could get away with a New Orleans subset of Frontierland thematically. Not perfectly ideal, but not impossible.

I wouldn't hate if they opened up the area beyond the Frontierland Train Station and built a New Orleans mini-land. That way you've got the Train Station partitioning it off from the rest of the land visually (save for the Mountain itself, of course), and you'd both enter and exit the PATF Ride in New Orleans. Rip out the restrooms, put in some eateries and a couple shops, and put some Wrought Iron Railings over the current Splash exit buildings and let it all exist as a lovely Frontierland equivalent of Storybook Circus.
 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
I mean, New Orleans Square was initially intended to be a mini-land subset of Frontierland. By the time it opened it had enough substance on the menu to be properly referred to as its own land, but still always sort of fell under the umbrella of Frontierland.

The layout of Frontierland at WDW isn't the most conducive to effective transitions from "The Old West" to New Orleans (and back again, as it seems the case would almost have to be), but you could get away with a New Orleans subset of Frontierland thematically. Not perfectly ideal, but not impossible.

I wouldn't hate if they opened up the area beyond the Frontierland Train Station and built a New Orleans mini-land. That way you've got the Train Station partitioning it off from the rest of the land visually (save for the Mountain itself, of course), and you'd both enter and exit the PATF Ride in New Orleans. Rip out the restrooms, put in some eateries and a couple shops, and put some Wrought Iron Railings over the current Splash exit buildings and let it all exist as a lovely Frontierland equivalent of Storybook Circus.
I've said before how much I prefer Disneyland's approach to thematic transitions (by including in-between scenes) to WDW's general approach (basically spacing things apart). But this does mean there's typically room to add in visual cues for transitions. I don't expect a total area retheme for MK. I think they'll either just keep using the general "rustic Americana" theme they've had for the area.

I'm also curious about the area background music. I would think they'd introduce 1920s New Orleans jazz in/around the Princess and the Frog-ified Splash mountain. The transition of audio from one section of Frontierland to another seems to be a challenge as well.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
I've said before how much I prefer Disneyland's approach to thematic transitions (by including in-between scenes) to WDW's general approach (basically spacing things apart). But this does mean there's typically room to add in visual cues for transitions. I don't expect a total area retheme for MK. I think they'll either just keep using the general "rustic Americana" theme they've had for the area.

I'm also curious about the area background music. I would think they'd introduce 1920s New Orleans jazz in/around the Princess and the Frog-ified Splash mountain. The transition of audio from one section of Frontierland to another seems to be a challenge as well.
I do agree that the transitions are a meaningful and tasty ingredient in the flavor of Disneyland. They do still make some smash-cuts, but those moments where things bleed together are really, really stunning and rarely equalled in any of the other parks.

My thought for squirreling any New Orleans stuff back behind the train tracks is based in part on the WDW method - not only would it spare the main drag of Frontierland as it exists presently, but it would remove the need to transition from "Old West" by the land's Liberty Square end to New Orleans in the middle and back to Old West by the time you reach Big Thunder. To your point, keeping it on the other side of the tracks would let the Train Station act as a transitional gateway between the existing Frontierland and its area music and a New Orleans area with jazz music contained to the other side. The bridge immediately in front of the mountain would presumably feature some PATF music as well, but at least then that would be the only sonic intrusion in the existing Frontierland.

That said, I don't think I really expect them to go to such lengths to build a New Orleans area on any size in the Magic Kingdom to "justify" PATF in Frontierland. But it is fun to think about.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
There are currently no plans for Dreamfinder that I am aware of.
Indicating that he wasn't planned to be incorporated into any forthcoming redo of the Imagination Pavilion, or that the Imagination redo is dead?

Though I suppose both could be true . . .
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
That would never work.
1. It block access from Gate 3, it is the main road for supplies and equipment for Main Street, Jungle Cruise, Pirates and the rest of Adventureland including Splash, Big Thunder, and the parades.

2. It would block all the Splash Mountain maintenance access.

3. It would go right by the AVAC bldg and no matter how you would re-theme it, that place still stinks.

4. The big building behind Splash is for Parade Storage and Maintenance, so maybe get rid of the parade floats?
OK, you have me on the ropes...but I’m not done yet. I still think some backstage stuff could be reimagined, but I’m no expert. Another option is to leave the backstage buildings alone and have a New Orleans Square type mini-land build into the existing Queue, restroom and gift shop area (yellow below) and extend back into part of the area circled in blue. They couldn’t fit a lot in there but possibly a restaurant, shop and meet and greet area. The transition to New Orleans could be under the train overpass so it’s not intrusive to Frontierland and it helps the new ride fit into a land. Cheaper and easier to do that.
67EDBB0C-7AD9-42FA-A3A9-2F91ABBCAA80.jpeg
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I do agree that the transitions are a meaningful and tasty ingredient in the flavor of Disneyland. They do still make some smash-cuts, but those moments where things bleed together are really, really stunning and rarely equalled in any of the other parks.

My thought for squirreling any New Orleans stuff back behind the train tracks is based in part on the WDW method - not only would it spare the main drag of Frontierland as it exists presently, but it would remove the need to transition from "Old West" by the land's Liberty Square end to New Orleans in the middle and back to Old West by the time you reach Big Thunder. To your point, keeping it on the other side of the tracks would let the Train Station act as a transitional gateway between the existing Frontierland and its area music and a New Orleans area with jazz music contained to the other side. The bridge immediately in front of the mountain would presumably feature some PATF music as well, but at least then that would be the only sonic intrusion in the existing Frontierland.

That said, I don't think I really expect them to go to such lengths to build a New Orleans area on any size in the Magic Kingdom to "justify" PATF in Frontierland. But it is fun to think about.
I was typing something similar when you posted this. Great minds think alike :). I also agree it’s just fun to talk about and have little or no hope of actually seeing it done.
 

drod1985

Well-Known Member
Threw Princess and the Frog on last night while making dinner. It's a good time. Fun characters, good visuals, great music.

I'm sad Splash is going but understand why it's got to. As long as budgets aren't cut I think this has a ton of potential and will provide some much needed representation in the parks. I only hope they retain "Splash Mountain" in the name somehow.
 

Disney Maddux

Well-Known Member
Threw Princess and the Frog on last night while making dinner. It's a good time. Fun characters, good visuals, great music.

I'm sad Splash is going but understand why it's got to. As long as budgets aren't cut I think this has a ton of potential and will provide some much needed representation in the parks. I only hope they retain "Splash Mountain" in the name somehow.
Tiana's Splash Mountain Mardi Gras?
 

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