News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[Donaldfan1934]

It will be received well regardless. They did what they did to guarantee that. Even if it’s a worse attraction, it should make them a pretty penny.

Disney’s narrative pushing does not necessarily have the effect it’s intended to have. If it did, park guests would be avoiding the current ride like the plague instead of arguably increasing its popularity in spite of the more limited park capacity. The truth of the matter is that we’ll never know the reality of PatF’s reception from Disney or social media influencers. As with anything else Disney does, only the insiders will help give us a more honest picture of things.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Disney’s narrative pushing does not necessarily have the effect it’s intended to have. If it did, park guests would be avoiding the current ride like the plague instead of arguably increasing its popularity in spite of the more limited park capacity. The truth of the matter is that we’ll never know the reality of PatF’s reception from Disney or social media influencers. As with anything else Disney does, only the insiders will help give us a more honest picture of things.

When Disney announces the impending doom of a beloved attraction, attendance soars and merchandise flies. When Disney announces the impending doom of a beloved attraction because of #racism, attendance really soars and merchandise skyrockets. It's 2020 America after all. Makes one wonder whether this was Disney's plan all along.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Disney’s narrative pushing does not necessarily have the effect it’s intended to have. If it did, park guests would be avoiding the current ride like the plague instead of arguably increasing its popularity in spite of the more limited park capacity. The truth of the matter is that we’ll never know the reality of PatF’s reception from Disney or social media influencers. As with anything else Disney does, only the insiders will help give us a more honest picture of things.

The intention was to create enough division that any credible argument against the decision would just be met with “racist”. It’s a brain dead easy counter point for a decision that otherwise would have been met with more pushback than Mr. Toad, Horizons, Figment, and Tower of Terror combined.

They will milk Brer Rabbit for all that he’s worth on the way out (and probably further down the line when they “realize” that there’s really nothing wrong with the character, and he can appear on LE obscure merchandise).

 

[doctornick]

The company should be pointed and shamed repeatedly for making an announcement and then continuing to reap the financial rewards on the back of "racism" or whatever. Like, really.

To be fair, I don’t think the company has ever explicitly said much about any “problems” with Splash or its characters. Disney has framed these plans as “a way to get Tiana into the parks” to be more “inclusive” not that they need to remove Splash.

Don’t get me wrong, we all know that the undercurrent of why they are doing it is related to concerns about SOTS. But I don’t think that is an official position of the company. Officially, there is nothing “wrong” with Splash, just that they want to put in something “better”.

 

[Parker in NYC]

To be fair, I don’t think the company has ever explicitly said much about any “problems” with Splash or its characters. Disney has framed these plans as “a way to get Tiana into the parks” to be more “inclusive” not that they need to remove Splash.

Don’t get me wrong, we all know that the undercurrent of why they are doing it is related to concerns about SOTS. But I don’t think that is an official position of the company. Officially, there is nothing “wrong” with Splash, just that they want to put in something “better”.

Except for the fact that the Song of the South is still in the vault. But yes, their messaging is completely at odds with their press release.

 

[thequeuelinelectures]

Yeah I don't believe Jim is right with these rumors. Sounds like a mix of assumptions and old info. If anything it seems like the DL version is going ahead first, not WDW

 

[Donaldfan1934]

When Disney announces the impending doom of a beloved attraction, attendance soars and merchandise flies. When Disney announces the impending doom of a beloved attraction because of #racism, attendance really soars and merchandise skyrockets. It's 2020 America after all. Makes one wonder whether this was Disney's plan all along.

It very well could’ve been part of their plan, but its implementation certainly doesn’t help support the notion that this is truly a guest facing change.

The intention was to create enough division that any credible argument against the decision would just be met with “racist”. It’s a brain dead easy counter point for a decision that otherwise would have been met with more pushback than Mr. Toad, Horizons, Figment, and Tower of Terror combined.

They will milk Brer Rabbit for all that he’s worth on the way out (and probably further down the line when they “realize” that there’s really nothing wrong with the character, and he can appear on LE obscure merchandise).

I certainly agree that they created division to help silence detractors, but just because Disney wants to silence a significant portion of their fanbase doesn‘t mean that significant portion isn’t there or will ultimately step in line with what they want them to like when they need them to. In fact, there’s already plenty of evidence to suggest that they aren’t and they won’t. As I mentioned earlier, Disney and social media influencers will try to hide how people really feel about this situation and they already are.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

I’m listening to the most recent episode being discussed here at the moment. One thing that I’ve always wondered about, is why the Marc Davis vignette of the African children laughing with the hyena in IASW was switched around, and according to Jim Hill, in the mid 80s, an irate African American mother sent a letter to Disney expressing her anger towards them, for depicting African American children in such close proximity to a dangerous animal. I do wonder whether we’ll see similar changes to the attraction again soon, (with the rumored diversity team) and what those changes will entail. Hopefully if they do any work in IASW, they’ll remove the Disney characters from DLR. I do wonder what they’ll end up doing with CoP, since that was on the Diversity Team list of attractions as well. I mean, the only other attraction besides the obvious retheme of Splash, that’s been the MOST rumored to receive alterations has been HoP.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I’m listening to the most recent episode being discussed here at the moment. One thing that I’ve always wondered about, is why the Marc Davis vignette of the African children laughing with the hyena in IASW was switched around, and according to Jim Hill, in the mid 80s, an irate African American mother sent a letter to Disney expressing her anger towards them, for depicting African American children in such close proximity to a dangerous animal. I do wonder whether we’ll see similar changes to the attraction again soon, (with the rumored diversity team) and what those changes will entail. Hopefully if they do any work in IASW, they’ll remove the Disney characters from DLR. I do wonder what they’ll end up doing with CoP, since that was on the Diversity Team list of attractions as well. I mean, the only other attraction that’s been heavily rumored to receive alterations has been HoP.

I did a bit of digging on the laughing children this year. I don’t believe they made the cut when they moved from New York to California

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

They didn’t make the cut when they moved the attraction from the World’s Fair to Disneyland.

Actually, they for sure did make the cut. Here is evidence of that:

skip to 1:04

 

[Brer Oswald]

Actually, they for sure did make the cut. Here is evidence of that:

skip to 1:04

Hmm. That’s a bizarre reason to cut the children. Would make far more sense to cut the Hyena.

Unfortunate because they were probably the coolest dolls from the attraction

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

Hmm. That’s a bizarre reason to cut the children. Would make far more sense to cut the Hyena.

Unfortunate because they were probably the coolest dolls from the attraction

Yeah, their movements were very expressive compared to the standard side sway movement given to that set of AAs in their current form. From what I can gather, the attraction had removed that vignette by the mid 80s based on early ride through footage from 1985 / 1986, which aligns with Jim Hill’s statement.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Yeah, their movements were very expressive compared to the standard side sway movement given to that set of AAs in their current form. From what I can gather, the attraction had removed that vignette by the mid 80s based on early ride through footage from 1985 / 1986, which aligns with Jim Hill’s statement.

That was probably the reason they were removed. Perhaps the effect broke and they didn’t want to repair it?

The reason Jim gave does nothing to improve the diversity. The fact that they chose a cartoon animal over African children only takes away from that.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

The reason Jim gave does nothing to improve the diversity. The fact that they chose a cartoon animal over African children only takes away from that.

Yeah, I don’t think TWDC would immediately remove the vignette because of a single letter. It all seems very oddly specific to me. Given that Disney altered the Doll’s movements heavily throughout the 70s and into the 80s, a mechanical adjustment would make more sense rather than racial issues.

 

[doctornick]

Except for the fact that the Song of the South is still in the vault. But yes, their messaging is completely at odds with their press release.

SotS has been in the vault for over 30 years, nothing has changed in that regards. SotS being the vault has never prevented Disney from selling Br'er Rabbit stuff or even having M&Gs with those characters.

I'm not sure what you mean by their "messaging" but officially Disney has framed this ride change as a way to bring Princess and the Frog into the parks in an attraction. They've never publicly condemned Splash Mountain or the characters therein AFAIK. Again, we all know what the rationale is from behind the scenes, but in terms of the direct consumer messages, Splash Mountain is perfectly fine. So, there's really no hypocrisy from the company by keeping it open and selling ride/character related stuff.

 

[Parker in NYC]

SotS has been in the vault for over 30 years, nothing has changed in that regards. SotS being the vault has never prevented Disney from selling Br'er Rabbit stuff or even having M&Gs with those characters.

That's precisely my point. They don't mind making money off source material they deem too offensive to sell in the marketplace.

I'm not sure what you mean by their "messaging" but officially Disney has framed this ride change as a way to bring Princess and the Frog into the parks in an attraction. They've never publicly condemned Splash Mountain or the characters therein AFAIK. Again, we all know what the rationale is from behind the scenes, but in terms of the direct consumer messages, Splash Mountain is perfectly fine. So, there's really no hypocrisy from the company by keeping it open and selling ride/character related stuff.

You and I have a different definition of hypocrisy, but for them to say that one of the most popular rides at Disney is going away without the precedent set by the Black Lives Matter movement brings new meaning to the term gaslighting. But I agree, they never literally etched it in stone.

 

[doctornick]

It will be received well regardless. They did what they did to guarantee that. Even if it’s a worse attraction, it should make them a pretty penny.

I'm not sure why you think that. I mean, the new ride will almost certainly get praise among progressive media for getting ride of a "problematic" ride and adding more diversity and "inclusion". But in terms of theme park fans, the folks spending money and actually going to the parks? I'm really not sure. If the replacement attraction is of clearly inferior quality, I think there will definitely be a backlash - maybe not in terms of immediate effects but on a continuing erosion of the fan base of the parks which can lead to long term issues with attendance.

I'm sure there'll sell some extra Tiana stuff as well. But how many of her dresses would they need to sell in order to get back the millions of dollars they will have to put into changing this ride? I mean, it's not like they don't sell any Tiana stuff to begin with and you're pretty much cutting off any sales of Splash Mtn related items once it close (as small as such sales might be).

Maybe the thought is that they'll have a significant uptick in African American guests as a result? Maybe, but I'm skeptical. If that's their target, IMHO they'd be better off trying to figure out to get Black Panther/Wakanda somewhere in the parks - that was a cultural touchstone for the community (admittedly from outsider view, I don't want to speak for a group I'm not a part of).

 

[Animaniac93-98]

PatF doesn’t sell in Japan.

Japanese box office for recent Disney Princess movies:

Enchanted: $27 million
Princess and the Frog: $4.8 million
Tangled: $31 million
Brave: $11 million
Frozen: $249 million
Moana: $45 million

There's a reason why Frozen and Tangled are featured in Fantasy Springs and nothing has been said about TDL Splash Mountain yet.

 

[tanc]

I searched プリンセスと魔法のキス 人気ない on the internet

Which basically means like the princess and the frog is not popular and found some interesting results.

I think many Japanese people just don't even know or care for the film. I think I saw the box office numbers in Japan and they were insanely low.

All I know is that it's pretty interesting OLC has never had an official statement on Splash Mountain. I guess the popularity of Song of the South isn't so well known in Japan, but more than ever I think it's an ingrained icon for Japan. I guess we'll have to see, and obviously Japan also gets sponsors for rides sometimes.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I'm not sure why you think that. I mean, the new ride will almost certainly get praise among progressive media for getting ride of a "problematic" ride and adding more diversity and "inclusion".

Nope. You understand just fine.