Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Uhm.. not being facetious. There's no point in trying to explain away the uncomfortable feelings the film/subject brings up in order to preserve their right to play Zip-a-dee-doo-dah on the entrance playlist.

Creative laziness is insisting that the same rides/attractions/stories and songs should be used over and over and over again. Being creatively progressive means pushing old the old stories to tell new ones. Even without the uncomfortable origin story, it's completely within reason that Disney would want to re-theme Splash Mountain and create a new attraction anyway.

Ah, okay. I think we disagree on what I consider “progressive”. I’ve already stated I support the concept of the Splash retheme assuming it’s an equally good ride experience but I also support balancing nostalgia when looking at the where and when possible.

If this is an Incredicoaster level theme job, I reserve the right to call this out as a “progressive window dressing” or worse yet cheap pandering. Simply obliterating the old for the sake of change is not in my view worthy of being considered a “plussing” of the experience.

For that reason (in my opinion) being progressive also could be interpreted as improving on the bones of the original theme of the park, preserving critical events legacy IPs if/when possible, and replacing others. Or updating old attractions with new technologies without IP swapping.

The park is not a museum, but it’s not a shopping mall either. Listen to the customers and let them decide when the market demands change.

 

[el_super]

A theme park attraction can't just entertain audiences and strengthen that park creatively- it has to tie in to the new films and be able to sell toys.

Theme park attractions sell toys because people enjoy them. There's a direct correlation between how engaged the audience is and what level of spending they will do.

So best to just amend your statement to say that the park attractions need to just be the most engaging. That's not all that different from just saying they need to be really good.

Splash Mountain has always existed as a separate entity from Song of the South.

No it hasn't. If it had the easy answer to this problem would be to remove any music/character/setting from the movie from the ride and let the ride continue in that state.

Snow White originally didn't have Snow White. Mr. Toad's Wild Ride takes you to hell. But in the age of every ride being a book report retelling of a film, the idea of an attraction being influenced by a film but not a direct adaptation of that film is incomprehensible to today's up and coming theme park audience.

This "misunderstanding" isn't new. The confusion over not seeing Snow White on the Snow White ride was documented way back in the 1950s, right after the park opened.

The first and second generations of Imagineering understood that while the parks should help promote the films, they are separate entities and Disneyland additions should first and foremost be about improving the park. This seems to be a lost concept at Disney, and will lead to Disneyland becoming more and more like Universal over the next 20 years. WDI has fundamentally changed how they approach theme park design, and we're going to lose a lot of great things because of it. They might use the guise of equality for some changes- but I expect many to be driven primarily by merchandising. The "Mickey Avenue" replacing Main Street USA is eerily believable, and the addition of Disney film music during the evening loop at Main Street USA (it was playing during the extra shopping hour when I went) is a step in that direction.

These arguments are always so flimsy and arbitrary. Why stop at blaming Disney for replacing the rides? Why not extend it to the audience that enjoys them? No one really seems to believe that the Princess and the Frog ride will be anything but well received, so if they build a new ride, that's just as popular and sells just as much merchandise, what's the problem really?

The problem is they replaced the ride you liked, with something that someone else likes, and that's somehow extrapolated into a complete failure of Imagineering? Please.

 

[wdrive]

No one really seems to believe that the Princess and the Frog ride will be anything but well received, so if they build a new ride, that's just as popular and sells just as much merchandise, what's the problem really?

If it’s just as popular and sells just as much merchandise as Splash Mountain then what’s the point in spending however many hundreds of millions they are on this?

I’d rather that went on a Goofy’s Sky School or Incredicoaster replacement.

 

[el_super]

The park is not a museum, but it’s not a shopping mall either. Listen to the customers and let them decide when the market demands change.

Maybe using the word progressive was wrong on my part, since it seems to draw too much attention to the political definition.

Ultimately though I think (and I think you agree) that the parks can't be museums and keeping attractions around as museum pieces doesn't really serve anyone in the long term. That's really what I meant... in keeping the art progressing, you have to remove old pieces, and sometimes close older attractions.

The concept and ideal of continuing the art, keeping the medium alive, means having to accept the possibility that not every ride will be a hit and not every project will be a masterpiece. The art is the attempt, and not necessarily the outcome.

The analog is a little lost in the theme park world, because attractions are made so seemingly permanent, but the thought is more along the line of a movie theater: the same screen could show Titanic one week, The Postman the next, and eventually show Saving Private Ryan after that. Cinema is an art, even if the individual movies are... not great.

 

[SuddenStorm]

If it’s just as popular and sells just as much merchandise as Splash Mountain then what’s the point in spending however many hundreds of millions they are on this?

I’d rather that went on a Goofy’s Sky School or Incredicoaster replacement.

I have no doubt the new ride will at lease be more popular initially- especially if we're comparing it to the attendance numbers Splash is doing after 30 years.

But do we see a Princess and the Frog ride lasting unchanged and remaining popular for three decades? I certainly don't.

 

[el_super]

If it’s just as popular and sells just as much merchandise as Splash Mountain then what’s the point in spending however many hundreds of millions they are on this?

If you remove the financial element you are just left with what Disney has said: it's an effort to promote inclusion.

 

[el_super]

But do we see a Princess and the Frog ride lasting unchanged and remaining popular for three decades? I certainly don't.

Why not? What's the difference between the characters in one animated film versus another? Is the music somehow BETTER in Song of the South versus Princess and the Frog? Or does it all just boil down to nostalgia and how long something has been around?

In 30 years, few will be around that remember Splash Mountain. It will be as forgotten as Adventures thru Inner Space is now.

 

[wdrive]

If you remove the financial element you are just left with what Disney has said: it's an effort to promote inclusion.

Now, if Dr Facilier is included in the ride, does that go against any inclusive goals? He’s a pretty negative stereotype with all voodoo etc. Just playing devils advocate here, but is that okay and inclusive? Is that any better than the tribes people on Jungle Cruise?

 

[el_super]

Now, if Dr Facilier is included in the ride, does that go against any inclusive goals? He’s a pretty negative stereotype with all voodoo etc. Just playing devils advocate here, but is that okay and inclusive?

That's an interesting question, and I'm sure it's something that can be personal between different people. The benefit here though, is that there is an African American project lead working on this replacement, that will be able to weigh in on what they want to see and what story they want told. Will she get it completely right? That's debatable. But that she is being granted the opportunity to tune the story through her own perspective is something that wasn't granted to those being depicted in Song of the South or Splash Mountain.

 

[KIGhostGuy]

Is the music somehow BETTER in Song of the South versus Princess and the Frog?

Yes, absolutely.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Yes, absolutely.

It's not just the inherent quality of the music- the sound design in Splash Mountain is some of the best Disney's done. I'm skeptical WDI will be able to match it.

 

[el_super]

Yes, absolutely.

From a completely objective standpoint? How do you prove that?

 

[wdrive]

From a completely objective standpoint? How do you prove that?

You obviously can’t. But then I can’t prove that Pirates of the Caribbean is a better ride than Jumpin Jellyfish either.

 

[wdrive]

@el_super @SuddenStorm @BuzzedPotatoHead89 Just want to say thank you for the interesting discussion guys! It’s nice to read and discuss others viewpoints.

@MisterPenguin not sure what your problem is but I really don’t appreciate you coming for me in the way you did.

 

[SuddenStorm]

From a completely objective standpoint? How do you prove that?

Wait what? Music quality in a theme park attraction is usually subjective not objective. Of course it's not an objective standpoint. Your argument is ridiculous anyways, since can you objectively prove Song of the South's music is worse?

I'd argue that the longevity of Zip a Dee Doo Dah's popularity is enough to make a solid case that it has better music then Princess and the Frog, which I couldn't tell you a single song from.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

From a completely objective standpoint? How do you prove that?

Because I can sing Zipp-A-Dee-Doo-Dah in my sleep and next to "When you wish upon a Star" it is the 2nd most identifiable and iconic Disney song of all time, and I can't name one song from Princess and the frog let alone name one that is memorable.

 

[Stevek]

@el_super @SuddenStorm @BuzzedPotatoHead89 Just want to say thank you for the interesting discussion guys! It’s nice to read and discuss others viewpoints.

@MisterPenguin not sure what your problem is but I really don’t appreciate you coming for me in the way you did.

The Ignore function will become your friend here over time.

 

[Brer Panther]

Y'know, call me crazy, but I highly doubt that when Disney decided to adapt African-American folktales, their intention was to base the characters from those folktales on minstrel show performers.

If the Brers didn't appear in Song of the South and simply originated in the ride, I doubt that people would be dubbing them stereotypes or comparing them to minstrel show characters.

 

[el_super]

Wait what? Music quality in a theme park attraction is usually subjective not objective. Of course it's not an objective standpoint. Your argument is ridiculous anyways, since can you objectively prove Song of the South's music is worse?

Of course I can't, but that was the point I was making. There's nothing fundamentally, objectively better about the music from Song of the South. People subjectively think it's better due to nostalgia alone, and time will take care of that.

 

[Brer Panther]

Has Disney even straight-up claimed that the Brers are based on minstrel show performers?