Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
If Splash must be changed (and even if this is primarily being done for $$$, let's be honest and say that they're still happy to be free of the baggage of the source material), PATF is the most logical change. And I do feel that more people have become aware of the film and responded to it positively in the time since 2009.

Keeping in mind that in 2009 Disney Animation as a brand was still in recovery after a decade of underwhelming and underperforming films, and Disney made the unfortunate decision to put the film opposite Avatar (much in the same way they put Winnie the Pooh against the last HP movie), both of which had a big effect on the film's reception.

If the ride must change, and clearly it must, I'd rather it be a logical change rather than turn it into Black Widow's Splash Adventure.


If we're being honest, it's not that themed and they probably won't actually have to change very much to make it fit. Names and signs (though you're probably joking about the sign again) are just semantics.

No I’m not joking about the sign. I mean kind of in the way I expressed it but the sentiment is real. Things like that mean something to a lot of us fans.

I mean for it to be Tianas Place it would need quite a bit of work but they can just call it Tianas lodge and be done with it I guess. Wouldn’t put it past them.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
If Splash must be changed (and even if this is primarily being done for $$$, let's be honest and say that they're still happy to be free of the baggage of the source material), PATF is the most logical change. And I do feel that more people have become aware of the film and responded to it positively in the time since 2009.

Keeping in mind that in 2009 Disney Animation as a brand was still in recovery after a decade of underwhelming and underperforming films, and Disney made the unfortunate decision to put the film opposite Avatar (much in the same way they put Winnie the Pooh against the last HP movie), both of which had a big effect on the film's reception.

If the ride must change, and clearly it must, I'd rather it be a logical change rather than turn it into Black Widow's Splash Adventure.


If we're being honest, it's not that themed and they probably won't actually have to change very much to make it fit. Names and signs (though you're probably joking about the sign again) are just semantics.

But ill say this, if this MUST happen please happen before Zootopia 2 is released and they have second thoughts.
 

BuzzedPotatoHead89

Well-Known Member
So is this whole thing not even worse then? If it’s less to do with being PC and more to do with selling more beignets! That they re willing to bring the same disregard they’ve displayed at DCA to DL

Yes and no. If anything this gives me hope because for Jungle Cruise as Trader Sam sells tons of alcohol, Tiki Room sells tons of dole whip, and we know Mansion (through its NBC connection) and Pirates are top selling IPs.

Looking at this through the lens of Chapek, I would probably be most worried about the other 3 mountains.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
So is this whole thing not even worse then? If it’s less to do with being PC and more to do with selling more beignets! That they re willing to bring the same disregard they’ve displayed at DCA to DL
If we're being honest, they've been very consistent about this ESPECIALLY since Chapek. It fits exactly within their wheelhouse. I think a lot of people (not excluding myself here) just tried to pretend it wasn't happening because it's only at DCA, right? Everyone knows DCA kind of sucks, but they wouldn't touch the REAL park, right?

We all were deluding ourselves.
No I’m not joking about the sign. I mean kind of in the way I expressed it but the sentiment is real. Things like that mean something to a lot of us fans.

I mean for it to be Tianas Place it would need quite a bit of work but they can just call it Tianas lodge and be done with it I guess. Wouldn’t put it past them.
If they want it to match the movie, it would be a lot of work. But if they want to just do a little dockside restaurant in the South, I feel like they could make the change without actually doing very much.

Honestly the main thing Hungry Bear had going for it was a nice environment and view, and they steadily got rid of a lot of their notable food items. The environment and view doesn't necessarily have to change much.

After all, they built a Tangled Tavern in China without bothering to make it look much like The Snuggly Duckling. Nothing in any of the Toy Story Lands looks THAT much like anything in the movie other than there being characters from the films everywhere.

Final edit: If the budget for this truly is threadbare, they're not going to waste it on a restaurant. At least, one would hope they wouldn't. It would be very Pressler of them if they did.
 
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SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
The ambiguity of an attraction's IP helps it remain timeless and last decades.

Imagine if they had themed Space Mountain after 'The Black Hole' or something. I guarantee you it wouldn't have lasted this long.

Pirates of the Caribbean is now forever forced on live action Disney films from the 2000's- while popular this will date the ride far quicker than if they had left Johnny Depp out of it, and now with Redd in the live action films the ride is going to be forced to change even further.

Splash Mountain has always functioned independently from its source material- and this helped the attraction feel timeless and helped it resonate with 30 years of park guests.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
If we're being honest, they've been very consistent about this ESPECIALLY since Chapek. It fits exactly within their wheelhouse. I think a lot of people (not excluding myself here) just tried to pretend it wasn't happening because it's only at DCA, right? Everyone knows DCA kind of sucks, but they wouldn't touch the REAL park, right?

We all were deluding ourselves.

If they want it to match the movie, it would be a lot of work. But if they want to just do a little dockside restaurant in the South, I feel like they could make the change without actually doing very much.

Honestly the main thing Hungry Bear had going for it was a nice environment and view, and they steadily got rid of a lot of their notable food items. The environment and view doesn't necessarily have to change much.

After all, they built a Tangled Tavern in China without bothering to make it look much like Snuggly Duckling. Nothing in any of the Toy Story Lands looks THAT much like anything in the movie other than there being characters from the films everywhere.


I really did think that they would be a little more careful when it came to Disneyland but I guess I gave them too much credit.

When it comes to Hungry Bear I wouldn’t miss the food but I would miss the name and the little Bear touches. We re also losing yet another IP free zone but I would prefer this to IP in NOS proper.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
I really did think that they would be a little more careful when it came to Disneyland but I guess I gave them too much credit.

When it comes to Hungry Bear I wouldn’t miss the food but I would miss the name and the little Bear touches. We re also losing yet another IP free zone but I would prefer this to IP in NOS proper.

It's also a restaurant that dates back to the early '70s, in some form. It's got some beautiful architecture and is a last holdout of Bear Country's original theme. I wouldn't mourn its loss like I am Splash, but it is Disneyland history.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
@TP2000 Did "he" View attachment 481619 happen to mention if it was still planning on reopening at both sides of the country when the parks reopen?

Not that I remember. Have I mentioned I had a cocktail in hand during all this? :rolleyes:

When WDW was discussed, it only came up jokingly that WDI will just cram whatever Splash Mountain concept they created for Disneyland into the Splash Mountain facility and area development they have in WDW with just a few minor tweaks. Apparently the executive team in Orlando is notoriously easy to please for WDI, while WDI has to take a more purposeful and delicate approach with anything they do to Disneyland.

That part of the conversation also discussed Star Wars Land, which was designed in 2013-14 for Disneyland first and then apparently had at least two different locations on the periphery of DHS it could have gone. The focus was on making it work at Disneyland and realigning the Rivers of America and Disneyland Railroad, and then they just assumed they'd cut and paste it into whatever spot the Florida management decided to use at DHS.
 

SuddenStorm

Well-Known Member
Splash could theoretically fit in a New Orleans Square themed environment, imagine if they revised Critter Country to make it Princess and the Frog friendly and had a highly detailed dark ride where Pooh currently sits, sitting alongside Splash. Complete with a revised Hungry Bear themed to whatever Tiana's restaurant in the film is. Now that'd be a win for the park.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
If we're being technical, Bear Country could be argued as the first IP land Disney ever built, and Hungry Bear was part of that. Which is an interesting situation given how Country Bear Jamboree would ultimately be received at Disneyland.

Disneyland: hating IP lands since 1972, before Iger made it cool!

It was just less offensive because it was a park-specific IP and not yet another film tie-in.
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
Chapek hasn't even been CEO for a year and he's already worse than Eisner. If this is an indication of what he's going to do as CEO, abandon all hope ye who enter here or whatever.

When WDW was discussed, it only came up jokingly that WDI will just cram whatever Splash Mountain concept they created for Disneyland into the Splash Mountain facility and area development they have in WDW with just a few minor tweaks.
Does that mean there's a chance that they'll at least spare the Magic Kingdom version? I'm guessing no, but maybe?
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Splash could theoretically fit in a New Orleans Square themed environment, imagine if they revised Critter Country to make it Princess and the Frog friendly and had a highly detailed dark ride where Pooh currently sits, sitting alongside Splash. Complete with a revised Hungry Bear themed to whatever Tiana's restaurant in the film is. Now that'd be a win for the park.


Exactly what I was hoping for when the MOB started shouting.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Does that mean there's a chance that they'll at least spare the Magic Kingdom version? I'm guessing no, but maybe?

Not from the conversation I had yesterday. This is a done deal for both coasts, even if it doesn't make much thematic sense in its WDW location. Although, in this current economic situation, anything is possible.

The 2019 concept was pitched and sold primarily based on Splash Mountain sitting directly next to New Orleans Square at Disneyland, and a relatively easy ability to morph Critter Country into a rural "bayou" environment on the outskirts of New Orleans. The panache and elegance of jazz age New Orleans was used in the original pitch to sell the Instagrammable moments and high profit food concepts attached to the remade ride.
 

PiratesMansion

Well-Known Member
Chapek hasn't even been CEO for a year and he's already worse than Eisner. If this is an indication of what he's going to do as CEO, abandon all hope ye who enter here or whatever.


Does that mean there's a chance that they'll at least spare the Magic Kingdom version? I'm guessing no, but maybe?
Judging by what @TP2000 and others have been consistently saying, you can't entirely blame that on him as CEO. It was in development beforehand as a way for Imagineers to keep their jobs.

But even without Chapek, even if Iger was still the CEO, I imagine this would have happened eventually. With its IP, Splash was a time bomb one way or another. It's Disney having its cake and eating it too.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Not from the conversation I had yesterday. This is a done deal for both coasts, even if it doesn't make thematic sense in its WDW location.

The 2019 concept was pitched and sold primarily based on Splash Mountain sitting directly next to New Orleans Square at Disneyland, and a relatively easy ability to morph Critter Country into a "bayou" environment. The panache and elegance of old New Orleans was used to sell the Instagrammable moments and high profit food concept attached to the remade ride.


Easy? Are they replacing Pooh with another dark ride and cutting down the Pine Trees? Or easy for people who don’t give a damn?
 

Brer Panther

Well-Known Member
Judging by what @TP2000 and others have been consistently saying, you can't entirely blame that on him as CEO. It was in development beforehand as a way for Imagineers to keep their jobs..
Oh, yeah... well, in that case, Iger is a worse CEO than Eisner. Then again, we all knew that already, didn't we?

Say, wasn't Guardians of the Galaxy Tower of Terror originally going to happen at Disneyland AND Disney World? What made them change their minds on that one?
 

SSG

Well-Known Member
I'm going to put this here, although I think my original comments I need to apologize for were in some other thread.

In one of these Splash threads when the news broke a couple weeks ago, I was confident this was a slapdash response and I said Disney was lying when they said in the Parks Blog that this Tiana concept had begun development "last year". Yesterday I learned at a party that I was wrong about that, and WDI had in fact hatched this Tiana concept last year long before weeks of riots and looting and peaceful protesting swept across America in response to systemic racism and police brutality.

I need to protect the innocent here, but suffice it to say that there was a gentleman at the party who has been involved with WDI for many years and is in a position to know what he is talking about. (And no @Figments Friend it was NOT Mr. Baxter, whom I haven't seen in months since I took that sneaky photo for you after I ran into him shopping at the nearby Bristol Farms 🤣). But it was someone who would know what they're talking about. And here's what I learned...

The Tiana remake of Splash Mountain concept was actually proposed and given some funding for development back in 2019. Part of the way WDI operates is they are constantly dreaming up new ideas for the parks; sometimes they are all new builds and concepts, but often they are more affordable remakes and repurposing of existing park facilities. WDI stays in business and keeps their staff employed by having projects that are funded by the Parks division, and without those projects big and small the work dries up and Imagineers get laid off. So it behooves WDI management to always have a steady stream of slick and exciting new projects available to lure Parks executives into spending money and investing in the various parks around the world. They need a pipeline of attractive projects to show Parks execs keep the work going.

That said, the Tiana project for Splash Mountain did not come about because of any noble attempt by WDI to achieve social justice by removing the Song Of The South characters and story, they simply weren't thinking about it back in 2019. WDI's original driving goals behind redoing Splash Mountain were business driven, because they knew that even before Bob Iger's 2020 comments on the film it was unlikely Burbank would ever reverse course and embrace the Song Of The South characters, and thus the characters would remain relatively unknown by parks audiences and no real emotional attachment to that story could be leveraged. There was a minor undercurrent in WDI that Song Of The South wasn't very PC, but it was not a major element to the 2019 proposal to retheme Splash Mountain.

The Tiana concept was chosen as a project worthy of active development because the proposal was able to play up the connections to New Orleans themed food and cuisine, and thus the Food & Beverage departments in the parks could offer Instagram worthy food and drink concoctions for sale. The driving force with Bob Chapek in charge of WDI and the Parks (as he was in 2019 when the proposal was presented and given initial development funding) is to drive revenue across multiple departments; a new parks project has to prove that it is an IP that can translate directly into increased sales in either merchandise, dining, or upcharge experiences, and preferably at least two of those things if not all three.

And so Tiana's story was seen as a way to sell the project by connecting it to dining locations in the parks that already exist (New Orleans Square) or can be re-themed to help support the project (Hungry Bear Restaurant and the aging Pooh store with historically declining sales in Critter Country).

So work had actually been bubbling along on this Tiana Mountain idea for the past year. I asked how this works in WDW because Splash Mountain there is smack in the middle of Frontierland. I was laughingly told that the Tiana project was created with Disneyland in mind, but like many projects it also gets added to WDW as an afterthought. Star Wars Land was designed specifically for Disneyland's current location, and they knew they could wedge it in somewhere in WDW too. The Disneyland setting alongside New Orleans Square and a re-themed Critter Country is the ultimate goal for the project and the artistic vision they are designing for, and later they'll just wedge it into WDW next to Thunder Mountain because no one in Orlando is going to care or give them grief about it.

The other thing I learned was that the entire concept is very early in its development. It won't be opening for years. Under normal circumstances, even if it had gotten the green light from Burbank last month this idea would not have been announced publicly or seen the light of day for at least another 18 months if not longer. But the current political climate and the Twitter mob forced the issue before the ride was ready to be announced. That is why there is only one single piece of artwork available, and it was created quickly as a very generic view of the existing log ride with some characters and visual elements overlaid onto it. The real ride is still subject to many revisions and alterations, so there's no telling what actually is going to happen inside the ride where the show actually takes place. But screens will be included in the new show, and many of the America Sings animatronics will be retired permanently while the budget requires that some get repurposed into Princess & The Frog characters. The gentleman had not heard that the ride system will be changed in any meaningful way in Anaheim. There's no money for that anyway.

The other info I learned from the conversation is that many, many other active WDI projects have been put on indefinite hold at all the parks outside Japan. The sober realization in WDI is that Burbank will need to conserve cash and resources for at least several years, even after the parks, movie studios, cruise line, ESPN, DVC and mass merchandising all get "back to normal" hopefully sometime in 2021. Some of these mothballed construction projects (Tron, Marvel, Toontown, hotels, Anaheim's Downtown Disney) will be sitting silent around the parks for a year or more before they resume work. WDI management is just happy that the Tiana project got announced publicly and the current political climate forced Burbank to commit to it, so at least there is some development work happening in Glendale. But there are many other projects in development that haven't been announced yet that just met their sad demise. Layoffs will be coming to Glendale this fall.

I think that about sums up a chatty conversation that went in several different directions.

Basically the Tiana project had been in development since last year, they actually weren't lying about that like I assumed. But this Tiana project was not initially created out of some noble call to Social Justice, but rather it was initially conceived in 2019 to sell more Instagrammable moments at the adjacent restaurants and gift shops. Pooh and Song Of The South are not hot sellers and are definitely not Instagrammable. Luckily for Burbank and Glendale, they could quickly reposition this Splash Mountain makeover concept as being guided by a noble and lofty goal to bring Social Justice to the magic kingdom and quickly squash an embarrassing Twitter campaign.
Good intel 👍

So. Tiana's Palace with jazz band and riverside dining, anyone?
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Easy? Are they replacing Pooh with another dark ride and cutting down the Pine Trees? Or easy for people who don’t give a damn?

Probably a bit of both. This is easier to tweak and retheme to the woodsy bayou...

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Than this is...

1-BLF7210808-Edit.jpg
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Oh, yeah... well, in that case, Iger is a worse CEO than Eisner. Then again, we all knew that already, didn't we?

Say, wasn't Guardians of the Galaxy Tower of Terror originally going to happen at Disneyland AND Disney World? What made them change their minds on that one?

Its funny on paper you’d think WDW has the short end of the stick with this but look how they ve fared recently. GOTG: takes over TOT here but they keep theirs AND get a new GOTG coaster (2 with TRON ) while the last coaster we got at DLR was in 2001, 1979 if we re talking Disneyland. Then you have GE which didn’t go into their Castle Park. And now well now I wouldn’t be surprised if PatF happens here but not there.
 

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