Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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71jason

71jason

Well-Known Member
MattM said:
It's kind of like being innocent until proven guilty. We "Disney supporters" don't have to offer serious contention to a point that cannot be taken seriously without providing some type of proof.
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Less than 30% of people invited to use MM+ have done so. Many who have tried found it too complicated. Guests have been told MM+ is a "bonus" to--not a replacement for--traditional FP. These are all facts based on first hand reports.

ETA: To make it clear, I'm deliberately avoiding any talk of government involvement in MM+. I understand that is a far more nebulous subject, which is why the Spirit's detractors have seized on it. But assuming without deciding that there is nothing wrong with WDW tracking people--the evidence suggests this is a $3B white elephant that does nothing to enhance guest experiences.
 
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M

MattM

Well-Known Member
71jason said:
Less than 30% of people invited to use MM+ have done so. Many who have tried found it too complicated. Guests have been told MM+ is a "bonus" to--not a replacement for--traditional FP. These are all facts based on first hand reports.
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Source? Who says its a first hand report? The original poster?
 
GoofGoof

GoofGoof

Premium Member
71jason said:
I realize it's easier to derail discussion by making tinfoil hat jokes, but have any Disney supporters offered serious contention to this point? Not enough guests are using the system, those that do are giving feedback based on faulty assumptions (that MM+ is "bonus" Fastpasses, not the only Fastpasses they'd have under the true system). A sure sign it's not going to work.
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I don't know about the ultimate success or failure of the project, but I haven't heard anyone defend the price tag. As much as some people will argue the other side of just about anything around here, nobody has suggested that this was the best way to spend a billion or two. It's really an inexcusable, poor allocation of capital that could have been used for other infrastructure improvements, refurbs, new rides, etc...
 
Lee

Lee

Adventurer
MattM said:
It's kind of like being innocent until proven guilty. We "Disney supporters" don't have to offer serious contention to a point that cannot be taken seriously without providing some type of proof.
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"Proof" on a site like this is often difficult to provide due to the nature of the information and often the form it takes.

I have "proof" that WDI designed a very nice Brazil pavilion for Epcot, but due to both the nature of the "proof" and my respect for my source, I can not provide it here.

'74 is in possession of internal documentation from which he has been disseminating bits and pieces for discussion here. Like with my Brazil info example, he is not able to make the entirety of this information public, thus hampering his ability to provide "proof."

At some point you simply have to decide whether or not you feel a poster is simply making stuff up. If you believe that to be the case, feel free to disregard the information and the corresponding discussion. If instead you believe/accept that a poster is providing actual, raw information, then the discussion is legitimate. It's up to you how you choose to interpret such information.
 
nytimez

nytimez

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
At some point you simply have to decide whether or not you feel a poster is simply making stuff up. If you believe that to be the case, feel free to disregard the information and the corresponding discussion.
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Don't be ridiculous, @Lee - why disregard the information when you can rant, rave and beg for attention instead (bonus points if you then claim it's the OP and other posters who are ranting, raving and begging for attention).
 
M

MattM

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
"Proof" on a site like this is often difficult to provide due to the nature of the information and often the form it takes.

I have "proof" that WDI designed a very nice Brazil pavilion for Epcot, but due to both the nature of the "proof" and my respect for my source, I can not provide it here.

'74 is in possession of internal documentation from which he has been disseminating bits and pieces for discussion here. Like with my Brazil info example, he is not able to make the entirety of this information public, thus hampering his ability to provide "proof."

At some point you simply have to decide whether or not you feel a poster is simply making stuff up. If you believe that to be the case, feel free to disregard the information and the corresponding discussion. If instead you believe/accept that a poster is providing actual, raw information, then the discussion is legitimate. It's up to you how you choose to interpret such information.
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I believe 74's information is like a tabloid. The dateline is correct, but the rest is pure sensationalism.
 
M

MattM

Well-Known Member
nytimez said:
Don't be ridiculous, @Lee - why disregard the information when you can rant, rave and beg for attention instead (bonus points if you then claim it's the OP and other posters who are ranting, raving and begging for attention).
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Oh , no one here is begging for attention, NY Times. As a matter of fact, hit the little ignore button in this box. Would an attention seeker ask you to do that?

You are a blind follower. Own it.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
"Proof" on a site like this is often difficult to provide due to the nature of the information and often the form it takes.

I have "proof" that WDI designed a very nice Brazil pavilion for Epcot, but due to both the nature of the "proof" and my respect for my source, I can not provide it here.

'74 is in possession of internal documentation from which he has been disseminating bits and pieces for discussion here. Like with my Brazil info example, he is not able to make the entirety of this information public, thus hampering his ability to provide "proof."

At some point you simply have to decide whether or not you feel a poster is simply making stuff up. If you believe that to be the case, feel free to disregard the information and the corresponding discussion. If instead you believe/accept that a poster is providing actual, raw information, then the discussion is legitimate. It's up to you how you choose to interpret such information.
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Just to be clear, I don't think for a minute that he is making up the information that he has acquired. I also understand that he cannot necessarily share this, but I do believe the there is an over reaction to what it means and how it will affect all of us. That's the part that I question.

Read through these posts and the one thing that becomes very, very apparent is that whatever this system is intended to do or, for that matter, imagined it will be used for is not working. It is as harmless right now as a newborn baby. It isn't working. It isn't doing anything but costing a lot of money. I don't even know where the 3 billion figure is coming from. Has someone actually seen the numbers, confirmed them? I don't think so. But it doesn't really matter...it's already spent, the horse is dead, no sense beating it anymore.

Assuming it is true...do you think that they can now just throw that money away and give up on it? If that number is true the time when they could just let it go was a long, long time ago. Now they must see it through. Seriously, they have to find a way to make it work, even if it's a shadow of what they intended it to be. As they used to say in the Space Program...failure is not an option.

I also strongly believe that it would be suicide, at this point, to be exposed legitimately as some subversive plot to, I don't know, exercise mind control maybe? I need to know how this is being done before I can accept it is being done...not just a theory. It was mentioned that some of the same companies that provide information systems for the government are being contacted by Disney. Why wouldn't they? They really are trying to stockpile information, but perhaps they are not interested in the color of your underwear, just what you will buy in the parks, and who better to get advice from then a company that specializes in information garnering systems. It's a no brainer and doesn't necessarily have any evil connection. Disney and the Government are two completely different entities.

To me this is a classic case of just enough information to be dangerous, especially when one has no way of knowing how it is going to be used. When someone like Spirit makes statements like he has and it stirs up fear and unnecessary concern, even accidentally, then something needs to be mentioned. If he would have come out and said that there are many ways that this information could be used and we really don't know now just how it will end up or what the intent is. We need to just watch it closely and when actuality happens we can then react to it and have a basis for concern. That is why I have been making posts about it. I am not fearful because there is nothing that Disney can do to me regardless of how much information they collect on me when I'm in the parks. The rest, name, address, date of birth, credit limit is all out there the moment I use my credit card to make a purchase. What else does anyone need to know and what will they do with that information once they get it. That is the important part. I got my first credit card in 1966 and I have been an open book since then as far as personal information is concerned.
 
wdisney9000

wdisney9000

Truindenashendubapreser
Premium Member
MattM said:
Oh , no one here is begging for attention, NY Times. As a matter of fact, hit the little ignore button in this box. Would an attention seeker ask you to do that?

You are a blind follower. Own it.
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No offense Matt, but like others have said, if you do not believe the information to be accurate, you have the choice to not be a part of the discussion and the rest of us can continue to enjoy our delusions of grandeur. You seem determined to prove that '74 is "sensationalizing" everything. You criticize him for not providing proof yet I dont see you countering with anything that proves his info is false. I can not tell whether you are trying to convince us, or yourself. Its a bit harsh to accuse someone of being a "blind follower" for simply discussing things on a DISCUSSION BOARD. It would be no better to label you "blind skeptic" simply because you refuse to believe.
 
M

MattM

Well-Known Member
wdisney9000 said:
No offense Matt, but like others have said, if you do not believe the information to be accurate, you have the choice to not be a part of the discussion and the rest of us can continue to enjoy our delusions of grandeur. You seem determined to prove that '74 is "sensationalizing" everything. You criticize him for not providing proof yet I dont see you countering with anything that proves his info is false. I can not tell whether you are trying to convince us, or yourself. Its a bit harsh to accuse someone of being a "blind follower" for simply discussing things on a DISCUSSION BOARD. It would be no better to label you "blind skeptic" simply because you refuse to believe.
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I Don't refuse to believe. If he shows me something to believe, that is backed up, I'll believe and admit I was wrong.

Like I said earlier, just because someone makes as absurd statement doesn't mean that it's my responsibility to disprove it.

For ex, Parentsof4 sent me some info via PM, which will stay that way out of respect for him. I have not yet replied, but he gave me something more than paranoid musings. I'll admit publically (and privately to him) that I was wrong.
 
Captain Neo

Captain Neo

Well-Known Member
Lee said:
"Proof" on a site like this is often difficult to provide due to the nature of the information and often the form it takes.

I have "proof" that WDI designed a very nice Brazil pavilion for Epcot, but due to both the nature of the "proof" and my respect for my source, I can not provide it here.

'74 is in possession of internal documentation from which he has been disseminating bits and pieces for discussion here. Like with my Brazil info example, he is not able to make the entirety of this information public, thus hampering his ability to provide "proof."

At some point you simply have to decide whether or not you feel a poster is simply making stuff up. If you believe that to be the case, feel free to disregard the information and the corresponding discussion. If instead you believe/accept that a poster is providing actual, raw information, then the discussion is legitimate. It's up to you how you choose to interpret such information.
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Is that Brazil pavillion still a possibility or extremely unlikely at this point? One thing that has bothered me for 20 years now is Disney's refusal to add pavilions to Epcot which I thought would always have new pavillions added over the years.
 
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