Seriously?

[Laketravis]

Maybe don't book a $1,200 a night hotel room if you are concerned about cost?

Of course not. Maybe read my post again to understand what the spirit of the exercise was.

No red herring here. The reaction that he is surprised that prices have risen when all things around him have sky rocketed is classic. He is looking to book a deluxe resort with a PH and DDP, and is startled that he has to pay a price.

There was no element of "surprise" in my post. In fact, if you read it carefully you'll probably understand that my entire premise was to prove what I suspected. Surprised? Startled? Classic?

And they could also do a split stay, starting at a value or moderate resort, to bring costs down further.

Except that wasn't what I was trying to illustrate.

Look - y'all (and yes, I'm in Texas not across the pond) are obviously missing the entire point of my post. It was an exercise in like comparisons - the current cost of a trip for two compared to the same trip of the past for three. Anybody who's been around for the last 17 years that I've been posting on Disney forums knows I'm fairly well adept at how to structure a WDW vacation at the lowest possible costs.

 

[Chi84]

'low income guests'

When Disney is charging $1200 A NIGHT for a tier of rooms that they literally have hundreds of...

At boardwalk the standard rate during Dec 9 week is over $1,700 a NIGHT.

For a freaking Marriott level hotel room.. Not a suite, not a penthouse, nothing exotic at all.. just proximity. (Edit: This 1700 rate was a club room - that's the first rate Disney's site offered...)

This isn't 'the poors being jealous' - that kind of rate is just insane.

I agree the price looks insane. I checked the week beginning December 7 and it looks like most of the deluxe resorts are unavailable.

If we accept that Disney is telling the truth about hotel occupancy being high, what do you think they should do? Would it be better to price them lower than what people are seemingly willing to pay? I assume that would just make them sell out faster.

A friend told me in 1982 that it was necessary to book two years in advance to get a room at the Polynesian or Contemporary. I think they and the campgrounds were the only places on Disney property at the time. I didn’t question it because I hadn’t visited yet.

Of course they should be providing more than a standard hotel room at those prices. And it does look like they are starting to tighten up resort amenities where non-resort guests are concerned.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this.

 

[Chi84]

Of course not. Maybe read my post again to understand what the spirit of the exercise was.

There was no element of "surprise" in my post. In fact, if you read it carefully you'll probably understand that my entire premise was to prove what I suspected. Surprised? Startled? Classic?

Except that wasn't what I was trying to illustrate.

Look - y'all (and yes, I'm in Texas not across the pond) are obviously missing the entire point of my post. It was an exercise in like comparisons - the current cost of a trip for two compared to the same trip of the past for three. Anybody who's been around for the last 17 years that I've been posting on Disney forums knows I'm fairly well adept at how to structure a WDW vacation at the lowest possible costs.

I thought your post was clear and that it was an understandable comparison.

When we want to go to the same place and do the same things we also look at what the costs were then versus what they are now.

 

[flynnibus]

No . I never said anything about jealousy so don’t put words in my mouth to try to make your point. The low income guests do not regularly book Deluxe resorts, and PH and DDP. They go less expensive as possible. You are also paying for Deluxe pricing for location close to the parks for convenient access.

I'm not putting words in your mouth.. You are the one who brought them into the discussion. "Disney has started to see some fluctuation of guests but not yet enough to make prices drop to where the low income guest will be happy" - Why bring up 'low income guests' as the audience that isn't happy? The OP stays at this property in the past.. he's not some outsider commenting on product that wasn't what they consumed.

The last Disney resort I stayed at was the Beach Club. I'm a top 2% income earner in this country.. and *I* think these prices are insane. So please stop trying to shove off the comments as if they are from people that shouldn't even be looking at this product.

Disney makes it clear that pricing for resorts is higher for that convenience as well as amenities, varying resort atmosphere and other things. And my post was regarding how many guests who bi&@“ about prices have little or no understanding of how Disney or any company runs a business and the complexities of doing so. Taking a Disney vacation has always been a major expense no matter what year you went. There are ways to do it cheaper than going all out and still enjoy what the parks offer.

And your dismissal completely misses that we're talking about people that already were buying this tier of product and are upset with where Disney has taken it.

 

[flynnibus]

I agree the price looks insane. I checked the week beginning December 7 and it looks like most of the deluxe resorts are unavailable.

If we accept that Disney is telling the truth about hotel occupancy being high, what do you think they should do? Would it be better to price them lower than what people are seemingly willing to pay? I assume that would just make them sell out faster.

"What the market will bear" or pricing yourself like a commodities market isn't usually a good long term strategy for a mass market product. Eventually you sour the audience to the point they stop looking past the cost and question their need.

IMO Disney has already killed the golden goose and is riding out the runway.

For what they should do - it really depends on what you decide your product is and what you want it to be. Most who face overwhelming demand look to expand to capitalize on it, not just raise prices until the customers revolt. But Disney flushed their customer mandates long ago and here we are... and they are never going back.

A friend told me in 1982 that it was necessary to book two years in advance to get a room at the Polynesian or Contemporary. I think they and the campgrounds were the only places on Disney property at the time. I didn’t question it because I hadn’t visited yet.

As usual, I'm sure it was more dependent on -when- you were trying to go. My family stayed in the contemp in 1980 and the poly in '83 and I don't recall any years in advance scheduling. The scheduling angst was getting the desired Dining Reservations daily

Of course they should be providing more than a standard hotel room at those prices. And it does look like they are starting to tighten up resort amenities where non-resort guests are concerned.

I think they probably are facing contention because of the shoving more in the same bag and then looking at the freeloaders like the straw breaking the camel's back.. while the problems are deeper than that.. but vilifying the outsiders makes an easy target.

The product isn't even that good - people just pay it because the reputation paints it as such. In what universe is Club Level access worth an additional $800 a day?

Dec 9-16th Boardwalk..

For way less than $800 you can literally hire someone to be your personal butler to do all your tasks and bring stuff to you.

 

[Chi84]

The product isn't even that good - people just pay it because the reputation paints it as such. In what universe is Club Level access worth an additional $800 a day?

Dec 9-16th Boardwalk..
View attachment 934795
View attachment 934794

For way less than $800 you can literally hire someone to be your personal butler to do all your tasks and bring stuff to you.

Just for perspective, we first stayed at the Contemporary because it was less expensive than the Polynesian and stuck with the Contemporary until they built Caribbean Beach. When Disney built the value resorts, we stayed there.

Then we bought into DVC in 2008 and it has worked out extremely well for our particular circumstances.

To this day, even though we have the money to do so, I would never stay at any of the deluxe resorts on cash because I don't find value in them. We don't need to be on the monorail line or to walk to Epcot and the rooms and resorts (AKL aside) are not spectacular.

We've never stayed at the Grand Floridian, Polynesian, Boardwalk etc. so we're not the ones buying the rooms. If I had to make a non-DVC choice I would stay at a moderate or value resort and be quite happy with it because I know what they are and they're perfectly fine.

That said, people can choose to spend their money as they see fit even if I personally think it's a waste.

 

[Calmdownnow]

Just came back from a river cruise...from Switzerland to Amsterdam....which sounds amazing except the water levels were too low on sections of the river... they bussed us 6 hours from Basel to Koblenz Germany where we boarded a boat and sailed a couple hours to Dusseldorf (which was not even on the itinerary) for three days. We were docked a $20 Uber ride from town and missed the stops in Strasbourg, Heidelberg,and Cologne... They Bussed us an hour downriver to Cologne, then stranded about 20 of us there by having the return bus leave 30 minutes earlier than scheduled...we then had to find our own way back to Dusseldorf... then they rushed it to Amsterdam with no more stops. It was pretty disappointing... I will say this though, we have been on a few River Cruises, and aside from this mess , we have always had an amazing experience. River Cruises are not for everyone, but we love the intimate nature of them and being able to really explore the smaller towns and areas...

Presumably you were on the Rhine, but on many rivers the current weather conditions have been devastating. Water levels on the Danube are so low that, for the first time in more than 80 years, you can see the wrecks on the riverbed of Nazi ships sunk in WW2? Why is that? Maybe climate change isn't a myth after all (said a Brit who has just heard that we are about to experience our 5th extended heatwave this summer and that there are places in the country that had no rain at all last month). Meanwhile multiple European cities have been evacuated because of wildfires. Domestic US news, and Gulf war news, probably means that many people on this forum have not been informed about some of this stuff.

 

[Calmdownnow]

Just for perspective, we first stayed at the Contemporary because it was less expensive than the Polynesian and stuck with the Contemporary until they built Caribbean Beach. When Disney built the value resorts, we stayed there.

Then we bought into DVC in 2008 and it has worked out extremely well for our particular circumstances.

To this day, even though we have the money to do so, I would never stay at any of the deluxe resorts on cash because I don't find value in them. We don't need to be on the monorail line or to walk to Epcot and the rooms and resorts (AKL aside) are not spectacular.

We've never stayed at the Grand Floridian, Polynesian, Boardwalk etc. so we're not the ones buying the rooms. If I had to make a non-DVC choice I would stay at a moderate or value resort and be quite happy with it because I know what they are and they're perfectly fine.

That said, people can choose to spend their money as they see fit even if I personally think it's a waste.

It is a different calculation if you have 2008 DVC point. Your buy-in then does mean that you can experience Bay Lake Tower (adjacent to the Contemporary), the Polynesian, the Grand Floridian, Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, Boardwalk if you want to, providing you care to spend the points or have "saved some" from a previous points year.

 

[Chi84]

It is a different calculation if you have 2008 DVC point. Your buy-in then does mean that you can experience Bay Lake Tower (adjacent to the Contemporary), the Polynesian, the Grand Floridian, Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, Boardwalk if you want to, providing you care to spend the points or have "saved some" from a previous points year.

That’s true. We just never thought they were worth the additional points.

Again, we think the only thing better about those resorts is proximity to the parks. If that’s not a concern or an advantage we would rather use the points toward additional days.

 

[Vacationeer]

"What the market will bear" or pricing yourself like a commodities market isn't usually a good long term strategy for a mass market product. Eventually you sour the audience to the point they stop looking past the cost and question their need.

IMO Disney has already killed the golden goose and is riding out the runway.

For what they should do - it really depends on what you decide your product is and what you want it to be. Most who face overwhelming demand look to expand to capitalize on it, not just raise prices until the customers revolt. But Disney flushed their customer mandates long ago and here we are... and they are never going back.



As usual, I'm sure it was more dependent on -when- you were trying to go. My family stayed in the contemp in 1980 and the poly in '83 and I don't recall any years in advance scheduling. The scheduling angst was getting the desired Dining Reservations daily


I think they probably are facing contention because of the shoving more in the same bag and then looking at the freeloaders like the straw breaking the camel's back.. while the problems are deeper than that.. but vilifying the outsiders makes an easy target.

The product isn't even that good - people just pay it because the reputation paints it as such. In what universe is Club Level access worth an additional $800 a day?

Dec 9-16th Boardwalk..
View attachment 934795
View attachment 934794

For way less than $800 you can literally hire someone to be your personal butler to do all your tasks and bring stuff to you.

That price difference isn’t just for CL. One is a 1,000+sf 2 story suite vs the standard >400sf hotel room.

 

[Vacationeer]

Deluxe rack rates are crazy.

Who is paying full rack rate for the top deluxe categories beside people with insane amounts of money? Splurge scenarios, short trips, split stays, one and done, etc.

Repeat visitors get familiar with discounts. At this point they know how crazy rack rates can be, especially for deluxe. The next stage is learning about DVC.

Take Post #1 for example. Theme park view rack rate is around $1400* a night that time of year. With DVC they can book TPV in BLT for under $500 a night (that’s including time value of money on the buy-in and dues). Looks great by comparison. 2 weeks is $5k with DVC. High but not insane. Seeing the CR TPV rack rate is $20k makes it look even sweeter. The DVC owner is happy and Disney is happy to have those members commit to annual trips possibly for decades.

That high December CR TPV rack rate is probably helping them to convert more people into DVC. Moving from the a-frame to BLT is not exactly apples to apples but the difference is slight considering the $900 night savings.

Aside from the DVC aspect I think WDW did well offering ‘free dining’ during the crazy inflated December rates. It’s a time of year people spend money. That special family holiday trip. WDW enticed them with free dining, it became very popular and WDW offset it by rapidly increasing rack rates. It’s kind of like the roofing mailer coupons that say $500 off your next job and then they just add $500 to your estimate so you still end up paying the same in the end. Plus times were changing. Early to mid December went from off season to high demand over the last 15 years.

*I checked mousesavers 2013 on wayback and found rack rate was $800. Adjusted for inflation $1150 today.

 

[flynnibus]

That price difference isn’t just for CL. One is a 1,000+sf 2 story suite vs the standard >400sf hotel room.

thx I wasn't studying on the room variation because it was still a single bed. Still bonkers considering it's frivolous space when you have a resort that it's whole value is simply being adjacent to someplace so you leave the resort. But like I said before.. what does that say when this is the first room Disney offers up in the room search? I can't relate to people who burn money like this.

Trust me, I have expensive toys and hobbies.. but I don't burn 5x the money on stuff just because it's the convenience pitch. Heck at least on the cruises when you're paying 1k a day they make you feel welcome and special...

 

[JIMINYCR]

Is your goal to spout the chapters of basic microeconomics we all had decade ago?

Yeah…got it…making money is the goal.

However using the way Disney has run its ops of late as the textbook example may be a bridge too far. There are weaknesses in their tactics In this “record economy” and it’s not yielding returns on the bottom line at all. One of the worst performing stocks on the Dow 30 for a decade.

Maybe your heroes aren’t doing that well afterall?

Sure. As long as the massses have no idea about how things are done in order to operate a business. But since they never have you cant blame them for having no understanding. In their world they see only 3 things in their mind. Disney has a non ending flow of money, they dont deserve to make money and we all should go to Disney at 1980s prices. Guess business education is sorely lacking.
And I did state that Disney has done things that have hurt their company and bottom line. I never stated those running Disney were my heroes. I am against many of the ways they have been operating. I simply do not believe any company can exist by giving the consumers pricing that doesnt have a freturn. How much return is not driven by what guests think they should pay for the services. Again a business can not demand and exist long if the pricing exceeds what the consumer is willing to pay out. I agree they are hurting by what they are charging but its not enough to drop pricing where these posters think it should be.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I'm not putting words in your mouth.. You are the one who brought them into the discussion. "Disney has started to see some fluctuation of guests but not yet enough to make prices drop to where the low income guest will be happy" - Why bring up 'low income guests' as the audience that isn't happy? The OP stays at this property in the past.. he's not some outsider commenting on product that wasn't what they consumed.

The last Disney resort I stayed at was the Beach Club. I'm a top 2% income earner in this country.. and *I* think these prices are insane. So please stop trying to shove off the comments as if they are from people that shouldn't even be looking at this product.



And your dismissal completely misses that we're talking about people that already were buying this tier of product and are upset with where Disney has taken it.

These are your words. "This isn't 'the poors being jealous'". I never stated anything about jealousy. And never said anyone should not look at consuming any product.
I bring low income guests up because all the time we are told its the low income guests who are being priced out and will never be able to afford a Disney vacation. Disney must drop pricing across the board on everything so it compares with prices decades ago. And Walt would have never priced them out of affording a vacation.
The original conversation was regarding prices not being where the OP wants them to be. Disney has every right to price their property where they want to in order to run their business. The consumer can decide to pay or not pay. Disneys pricing IF its too high and it loses the consumer then they will feel the hurt. Until then
Im happy you are a top 2% earner and Im sure you earned it by hard work and producing a product that your business or the business you worked for put out. Should you have earned less or your business charged less? Should the consumer had the right to dictate how much you earn as a salary or your company earned? You decide not to go to Disney is your choice. YOu cannot dictate how Disney prices their consumable items.

 

[nickys]

That price difference isn’t just for CL. One is a 1,000+sf 2 story suite vs the standard >400sf hotel room.

I thought there had to be more to it than just club level!

Those are what are also called the Garden cottages, correct?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sure. As long as the massses have no idea about how things are done in order to operate a business. But since they never have you cant blame them for having no understanding. In their world they see only 3 things in their mind. Disney has a non ending flow of money, they dont deserve to make money and we all should go to Disney at 1980s prices. Guess business education is sorely lacking.
And I did state that Disney has done things that have hurt their company and bottom line. I never stated those running Disney were my heroes. I am against many of the ways they have been operating. I simply do not believe any company can exist by giving the consumers pricing that doesnt have a freturn. How much return is not driven by what guests think they should pay for the services. Again a business can not demand and exist long if the pricing exceeds what the consumer is willing to pay out. I agree they are hurting by what they are charging but its not enough to drop pricing where these posters think it should be.

It’s not really the increase in prices on its own that is getting them ALOT of Main Street blowback…

It’s undending upsells and cutting corners

It’s not a good cocktail unless you simply are chasing quarterlies

 

[Chi84]

It’s not really the increase in prices on its own that is getting them ALOT of Main Street blowback…

It’s undending upsells and cutting corners

It’s not a good cocktail unless you simply are chasing quarterlies

I disagree about what concerns the general Disney-visiting public. As noted by the OP it’s the increase in the prices of resort rooms, tickets and dining.

People can easily avoid buying upsells and they notice cuts to varying degrees.

All the articles I see are complaining about price increases.

 

[flynnibus]

These are your words. "This isn't 'the poors being jealous'". I never stated anything about jealousy.

Yeah just ‘not happy’ and as a retort of someone looking at a product you’re basically saying isn’t for them. I just put on the translator. You are still the one inserting them into the reasoning.

And never said anyone should not look at consuming any product.
I bring low income guests up because all the time we are told its the low income guests who are being priced out and will never be able to afford a Disney vacation.

Who talks about low income guests on this site? Nobody is checking which venues take WIC or SNAP payments. The conversation is typically about the middle America that Disney has serviced for generations. People taking flights to orlando for a week vacation are not “low income” - they are the working and middle class and upwards.

Disney must drop pricing across the board on everything so it compares with prices decades ago. And Walt would have never priced them out of affording a vacation.
The original conversation was regarding prices not being where the OP wants them to be.

So we are saying… he “wasn’t happy”? And you say the low income people will never be?

Disney has every right to price their property where they want to in order to run their business.

Who said anything different? We are not children here, you don’t need to try to lecture us on US capitalism.

You decide not to go to Disney is your choice. YOu cannot dictate how Disney prices their consumable items.

It’s called feedback dude… no one was trying to take the keys away from disney.

 

[hopemax]

I've said it before but with numbers like these, these days Disney fans are better off pricing out a trip to Tokyo Disneyland or any of the international destinations. Especially, if you have points / miles for the flights. Both the MiraCosta and the Tokyo Disneyland Hotel are fantastic.

Our 2024 Halloween trip was ~$12K for 3 adults (I think we were there 8 nights). We split stay with TDL Hotel and a package at Fantasy Springs Hotel for all the benefits to getting into Fantasy Springs and Premier Access Passes. We bought the reserved viewing for the parades. First class trip, but it still was $1200 for a Saturday night (the most I've ever paid for a hotel room).

Your money can and should go further, and some people will think you're in the wrong and it has something to do with your income bracket.

 

[Ayla]

Sure. As long as the massses have no idea about how things are done in order to operate a business. But since they never have you cant blame them for having no understanding. In their world they see only 3 things in their mind. Disney has a non ending flow of money, they dont deserve to make money and we all should go to Disney at 1980s prices. Guess business education is sorely lacking.
And I did state that Disney has done things that have hurt their company and bottom line. I never stated those running Disney were my heroes. I am against many of the ways they have been operating. I simply do not believe any company can exist by giving the consumers pricing that doesnt have a freturn. How much return is not driven by what guests think they should pay for the services. Again a business can not demand and exist long if the pricing exceeds what the consumer is willing to pay out. I agree they are hurting by what they are charging but its not enough to drop pricing where these posters think it should be.

It isn't as lacking as you seem to think it is.