Rian Johnson still in the mix for new Star Wars Movies

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So you are telling me the casual fans went out to find Star Wars blog posts, and decided to not see it (or in most cases, not see it a second time) because of those blogs?

So I don't say failure (nor does anyone else) ever. Again, that's a strawman. Do you think these movies underperformed (specifically 8 and 9)?

Those movies are “terr-awful”. Even tnt buries them on reruns now. It’s OT and Rogue one in the prime slots. It is what it is.

And before i get “you always say the same thing”...it’s because it’s in response to the same completely false excuses.

They remade Star Wars...they really had NOTHING interesting...it was attended as the “anti-prequel” and a pop culture “event”...and then the causal audience moved on and the follow ups went due south.

The 40 years of reputation made the scale bigger...it in now way made the results more justifiable.

If that was Disney’s goal: treat the audience as stupid and bleed it out...then bravo.

If that was not their goal...then they’d reset.
And that they are from any reasonable perspective.

 

[Mmoore29]

Pretty obvious. To a slightly untrained observer - having a flop, a precipitous decline in BO and merch, and icing the entire proposed movie slate would be “enough” to correlate a problem.
But not in Cesar’s Palace.

Solo was the only flop, because of Alan Horn, not the movie itself, and not Kennedy. Going from $2 billion to well over $1 billion is a failure? That's real funny. And the film slate changed because of Solo, not Rise of Skywalker; but they would've moved to streaming series and moved films to streaming series anyways, just not as much if Solo had done better.

Toys are selling well, just not necessarily in Target or Walmart. Merchandise is still extremely popular. The movies have done well and been accepted by the vast majority. The parks were doing well pre-COVID. It is not "Euro Disney redux" by any means. It only is by incredibly dishonest trolls and cynical media trying to perpetrate that narrative.

You can't change the truth, and the truth is that Star Wars is doing fine and is not declining.

The only ones treating the audience as stupid are the Internet whiners and no one else. Not the people at Lucasfilm, not the cast, not the writers, not the directors. Not Kennedy, not Abrams, not Johnson, not Ron Howard, not Filoni, not Favreau; and not Lucas or Rick McCallum before them.

I have faith Johnson's trilogy will still happen. It's bound to. He's also busy with his own company and making a Knives Out sequel, so he has to get his ducks in a row, as does Lucasfilm. But it WILL happen.

 

[_caleb]

I don't agree. I don't think Disney will invest all that money into a trilogy unless they believe it will maximize profits. They have seen the Mandalorian be able to draw both casual and die hard fans. Why would they look to break the base up? If you are able to cater to both bases with a trilogy, you double the money. I believe there are people who like TLJ more than any other Star Wars movie. However, I do not believe they are people that will only show up to a Rian Johnson Star Wars trilogy.

I respect that opinion.

I wouldn’t say Disney is looking to “break up” the Star Wars fan base, so much as “cater to two major sub-sets of the fan base.” As you mention, it’s still about money.

TLJ seems to have highlighted the fact that a lot of people will pay to see Johnson’s approach to a Star Wars film. It hits with the new fans and with general audiences, just not so much with the old school. Whereas the Mandalorian (and hopefully the Book of Boba Fett) resonate more with fans of the OT and also general audiences. So it‘s not just “Old-school fans vs. new,” both of those are still just sub-sets of the massive casual fan base who just want more Star Wars.

Only thing I don’t understand is the delivery. I’d expect we might see the channels flipped: The Old-school (and I use the term lovingly) probably prefer their Star Wars films on the big screen in a trilogy format, while the New-school might be more inclined to stream in shorter segments at home.

I also wonder if Rian Johnson’s trilogy might get a much smaller budget than the ST films did.

 

[LSLS]

I respect that opinion.

I wouldn’t say Disney is looking to “break up” the Star Wars fan base, so much as “cater to two major sub-sets of the fan base.” As you mention, it’s still about money.

TLJ seems to have highlighted the fact that a lot of people will pay to see Johnson’s approach to a Star Wars film. It hits with the new fans and with general audiences, just not so much with the old school. Whereas the Mandalorian (and hopefully the Book of Boba Fett) resonate more with fans of the OT and also general audiences. So it‘s not just “Old-school fans vs. new,” both of those are still just sub-sets of the massive casual fan base who just want more Star Wars.

Only thing I don’t understand is the delivery. I’d expect we might see the channels flipped: The Old-school (and I use the term lovingly) probably prefer their Star Wars films on the big screen in a trilogy format, while the New-school might be more inclined to stream in shorter segments at home.

I also wonder if Rian Johnson’s trilogy might get a much smaller budget than the ST films did.

See I'm not sure it did. A lot did initially, but the drops were pretty epic as far as week to week. And video games and toys fell to their lowest numbers since 2015 based on reports. I just think when you have finally made the fans happy, you are nuts to risk it again.

 

[erasure fan1]

Some people definitely did choose not see the films because of blogs. Some people chose not to because of press reports.

You are putting way to much faith in blogs and press reports. If the majority of people as you say, really liked 8 and 9, the box office would have been better. You keep throwing around the word failure. From an industry standpoint over a billion isn't a failure. The movies were more than profitable. What I don't understand is why you believe that Disney thinks it wasn't a failure. Disneys expectations are not measured by what everyone else finds successful. The sequels were to usher in a new era of star wars based around these new characters. I see zero plans of them wanting any part of it now. And don't just say it's because of a bunch of whiny man babies like you keep saying. Kennedy has gone out of her way to not give flip what that segment of the fan base wants. So why abandon it?

TLJ seems to have highlighted the fact that a lot of people will pay to see Johnson’s approach to a Star Wars film. It hits with the new fans and with general audiences, just not so much with the old school.

Yes people went and saw Rians film. But I don't necessarily think it means people will go see another film from him. As far as I can tell, the general audiences really didn't care one way or the next. Like I said earlier, they didn't hate it, but it was far from a home run. I still truly believe that ep8 isn't Rians fault. I blame Kennedy. Why? Because she is the one that let him do whatever he wanted. If she had better vision with star wars, and she wanted a new direction as she has said. Rian would have ushered in a new era unrelated to the Skywalker saga. Unfortunately that YT-1300 has sailed and now he's damaged goods as they say.

 

[Mmoore29]

You are putting way to much faith in blogs and press reports. If the majority of people as you say, really liked 8 and 9, the box office would have been better. You keep throwing around the word failure. From an industry standpoint over a billion isn't a failure. The movies were more than profitable. What I don't understand is why you believe that Disney thinks it wasn't a failure. Disneys expectations are not measured by what everyone else finds successful. The sequels were to usher in a new era of star wars based around these new characters. I see zero plans of them wanting any part of it now. And don't just say it's because of a bunch of whiny man babies like you keep saying. Kennedy has gone out of her way to not give flip what that segment of the fan base wants. So why abandon it?

Did they ever SAY that Star Wars was supposed to become the Rey, Finn, Poe and Rose show from here on out, and things were going to continue to revolve around them? No, they didn't. They did say "we don't rule things out", but they never committed to that.

And even if they did, how do you know they have abandoned it? They could very well have future plans still in the making. But you don't know that at all.

I also don't count box office alone to register as success. I count the public sentiment, and the public sentiment has always remained warm, appreciative, and excited for the future; the series is the definition of evergreen. Nothing has ever changed that, nothing ever will.

Rian Johnson is not damaged goods to anyone. He'll make his trilogy, it's bound to happen. He's got other ducks to get in a row with his own company and making a Knives Out sequel, and Disney has to do likewise. But it WILL happen.

If anyone's damaged goods, it's Colin Trevorrow, who, if the "Duel of the Fates" script is indeed authentic, turned in a garbage script is just a generic sci-fi/space fantasy action movie with a Star Wars skin. It has no payoff, no actual tension, no urgency, and is just as witless as Jurassic World. And when he says "we work to not insult the fans," he already is. I like Jurassic World fine, but it doesn't fit as a sequel to Jurassic Park. And the continuity between the films is extremely iffy as hell, and the plot simply doesn't make logical sense in seeing how the events of the original film can get to there; how Ian Malcolm, Alan Grant and Ellie Sadler wouldn't have been able to speak and get Jurassic World killed before the new owner went ahead with the plan. Any and all logic says that's what would have happened.

 

[LSLS]

Solo was the only flop, because of Alan Horn, not the movie itself, and not Kennedy. Going from $2 billion to well over $1 billion is a failure? That's real funny. And the film slate changed because of Solo, not Rise of Skywalker; but they would've moved to streaming series and moved films to streaming series anyways, just not as much if Solo had done better.

Toys are selling well, just not necessarily in Target or Walmart. Merchandise is still extremely popular. The movies have done well and been accepted by the vast majority. The parks were doing well pre-COVID. It is not "Euro Disney redux" by any means. It only is by incredibly dishonest trolls and cynical media trying to perpetrate that narrative.

You can't change the truth, and the truth is that Star Wars is doing fine and is not declining.

The only ones treating the audience as stupid are the Internet whiners and no one else. Not the people at Lucasfilm, not the cast, not the writers, not the directors. Not Kennedy, not Abrams, not Johnson, not Ron Howard, not Filoni, not Favreau; and not Lucas or Rick McCallum before them.

I have faith Johnson's trilogy will still happen. It's bound to. He's also busy with his own company and making a Knives Out sequel, so he has to get his ducks in a row, as does Lucasfilm. But it WILL happen.

What are you basing toys selling well on?

Baby Yoda was a hot seller for 2020. The internet erupted with sheer joy from a Mandalorian season finale cameo. Those few seconds of green saber slaughtering droids brought more happiness to social media than has been seen since the pandemic started. Anyone who thinks Star Wars is dead or dying is only fooling themselves. The Force is still alive and well.

Litterly nobody has said that. Again, people are making things up to try to say the criticism is not warranted.

 

[_caleb]

See I'm not sure it did. A lot did initially, but the drops were pretty epic as far as week to week. And video games and toys fell to their lowest numbers since 2015 based on reports. I just think when you have finally made the fans happy, you are nuts to risk it again.

Seems like maybe you’re lumping all ”the fans” in together? Some fans (some of the vocal, OT Star Wars nerd fans) were indeed frustrated with TLJ and might have been “pleased” with The Mandalorian.

But a lot of OT fans don’t particularly care for any of the content from the animated series. They’re not excited about Ahsoka or Bo Katan or the Darksaber. That’s sort of a different sub-set of the fandom.

And even though lots of fans might have absolutely hated TLJ, there is a fandom around that take on the SWU. TONS of younger fans are really into the ST (see Reylo, Poe/Finn shipping, emo Kyle Ren, the diversity of strong female leads, the strong visual aesthetic of the ST, etc.). They may not buy toys (parents buy toys), but they are very active on social media. Disney would be leaving money on the table if they didn’t continue some of that. And they can “risk“ mildly frustrating the OT fans with more Rian Johnson stuff if they also keep Favreau/Filoni making great Mandalorian/Boba Fett series on D+.

Yes people went and saw Rians film. But I don't necessarily think it means people will go see another film from him. As far as I can tell, the general audiences really didn't care one way or the next. Like I said earlier, they didn't hate it, but it was far from a home run. I still truly believe that ep8 isn't Rians fault. I blame Kennedy. Why? Because she is the one that let him do whatever he wanted. If she had better vision with star wars, and she wanted a new direction as she has said. Rian would have ushered in a new era unrelated to the Skywalker saga. Unfortunately that YT-1300 has sailed and now he's damaged goods as they say.

I’m not sure how many of the casual fan base even know that the films are directed by different people, or that Rian Johnson was responsible for taking TLJ in a different direction. I think they just see “another Star Wars movie” and hope they like it.

 

[erasure fan1]

And they can “risk“ mildly frustrating the OT fans with more Rian Johnson stuff if they also keep Favreau/Filoni making great Mandalorian/Boba Fett series on D+.

I think the issue is bringing Rian back for his own trilogy wouldn't be "mildly frustrating" to the core fans that didn't agree with ep8. It would be nuclear meltdown in my opinion. Lol The problem then comes down to if Disney believes that enough of the casual fans liked ep8 enough to overshadow the the negativity that will come from a lot of the core fanbase. Personally, I don't think it will.

 

[ppete1975]

Im shocked people are mentioning toys. Toys are not what toys were 10-40 years ago. Im sure even barbie is impacted. Kids imaginations are not the same as when we were kids. Its much more screen based now and computerized, imagination isnt needed nearly as much. Thats why lego does so well, (besides it has IP) is that its half way between old toys and modern toys. Also Star wars has changed, they are looking to sell to adult collectors as much as they are to children. Black series? An action figure for 15-20 bucks.. that isnt the same demographic as bought the original star wars toys. Kids (just like adults) attentions spans are not the same as they were, and im sure all traditional toys show that. Toy makers now aim at nostalgia for adults and adult collectors as much as they do kids to survive... Do you think any of our dads collected toys when we were little?

 

[Mmoore29]

I think the issue is bringing Rian back for his own trilogy wouldn't be "mildly frustrating" to the core fans that didn't agree with ep8. It would be nuclear meltdown in my opinion. Lol The problem then comes down to if Disney believes that enough of the casual fans liked ep8 enough to overshadow the the negativity that will come from a lot of the core fanbase. Personally, I don't think it will.

You base that simply on the press' narrative, again. The situation simply is nowhere near like that. The press distorted everything, because of the "Dirty Laundry" syndrome, and especially lately because they want to bloody Disney's nose for everything lately.

 

[LSLS]

You base that simply on the press' narrative, again. The situation simply is nowhere near like that. The press distorted everything, because of the "Dirty Laundry" syndrome, and especially lately because they want to bloody Disney's nose for everything lately.

Blogs are not press. And if all they wanted was to sow division, why does pretty much ever blog universally praise the Mandalorian? Why did toy sales plummet for TLJ but jump with the Mandalorian?

 

[LSLS]

Im shocked people are mentioning toys. Toys are not what toys were 10-40 years ago. Im sure even barbie is impacted. Kids imaginations are not the same as when we were kids. Its much more screen based now and computerized, imagination isnt needed nearly as much. Thats why lego does so well, (besides it has IP) is that its half way between old toys and modern toys. Also Star wars has changed, they are looking to sell to adult collectors as much as they are to children. Black series? An action figure for 15-20 bucks.. that isnt the same demographic as bought the original star wars toys. Kids (just like adults) attentions spans are not the same as they were, and im sure all traditional toys show that. Toy makers now aim at nostalgia for adults and adult collectors as much as they do kids to survive... Do you think any of our dads collected toys when we were little?

You don't have to read into it if you don't want. However, according to the numbers I have seen, they saw a huge boom in toy/entertainment sales after The Force Awakens. Sales actually dropped after The Last Jedi came out, but saw a HUGE jump once the Mandalorian dropped. No, toys aren't the end all/be all. But it's not that they have just steadily dropped over the last 10 years. Star Wars is seeing huge jumps depending on what is released, which to me, when you add in the box office revenues, and how the films maintained at the box office, points to TLJ being much more than "A bad 'Press' Narrative" or that everything went exactly as planned.

 

[ppete1975]

Blogs are not press. And if all they wanted was to sow division, why does pretty much ever blog universally praise the Mandalorian? Why did toy sales plummet for TLJ but jump with the Mandalorian?

huge star wars fan from the beginning had all the toys, i would be livid if they let rian johnson in the building.

 

[ppete1975]

You don't have to read into it if you don't want. However, according to the numbers I have seen, they saw a huge boom in toy/entertainment sales after The Force Awakens. Sales actually dropped after The Last Jedi came out, but saw a HUGE jump once the Mandalorian dropped. No, toys aren't the end all/be all. But it's not that they have just steadily dropped over the last 10 years. Star Wars is seeing huge jumps depending on what is released, which to me, when you add in the box office revenues, and how the films maintained at the box office, points to TLJ being much more than "A bad 'Press' Narrative" or that everything went exactly as planned.

Im not saying youre wrong, im just saying toy sales in general are not the same as when most of us were kids. Kids unfortunately grow up quicker and progress to screens rapidly. And once a kid is there, going back to buying lots of static toys (hot wheel, star wars, barbie) is less likely. They might play with them for a bit but lose interest soon. Even as adults our attention spans are crap now. Force awakens it was mostly older fans buying all the toys for either nostalgia or resale. Also star wars did a better job making it a huge event, remember force friday 2015... it was the first time all the new toys came out and people were clamoring for anything star wars.

 

[erasure fan1]

You base that simply on the press' narrative, again. The situation simply is nowhere near like that. The press distorted everything, because of the "Dirty Laundry" syndrome, and especially lately because they want to bloody Disney's nose for everything lately.

It's based on my opinion from talking to people about star wars. I don't really buy into the whole press wants to bloody Disney's nose syndrome like you say. And if you are talking about the blogs and fan sites... I don’t really count them as the press. I stand by my statement, the general audiences were very indifferent on the sequels, especially 8 and 9. I know you loved ep8, but I do think you are the minority of core fans. Either way, you have about as much factual knowledge as I or anyone else on this site has. It's all speculation. I can only base my thoughts on the future of Rians star wars on what I see happening. And as of now that is a solid nothing. No mention from Disney or Lucasfilm. They laid out their plans, he wasn't part of it. The only one bringing it up is him, A guy known to troll the fans.

 

[Mmoore29]

It's based on my opinion from talking to people about star wars. I don't really buy into the whole press wants to bloody Disney's nose syndrome like you say. And if you are talking about the blogs and fan sites... I don’t really count them as the press. I stand by my statement, the general audiences were very indifferent on the sequels, especially 8 and 9. I know you loved ep8, but I do think you are the minority of core fans. Either way, you have about as much factual knowledge as I or anyone else on this site has. It's all speculation. I can only base my thoughts on the future of Rians star wars on what I see happening. And as of now that is a solid nothing. No mention from Disney or Lucasfilm. They laid out their plans, he wasn't part of it. The only one bringing it up is him, A guy known to troll the fans.

The ganging up on Disney for every move it makes is very real, it has been ever since Eisner floundered. Disney is a popular target to take potshots at. I'm not blind to the ways it certainly done wrong, especially overseas, but it's not as heartless and mercenary as the public perception is; it is NOT just cynically retreading past glories and losing creativity. Disney has done well by Star Wars and will continue to do so, it's also a fitting home for the Fox IPs; including the chance to revitalize the Alien franchise at long last.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Still...

https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/rian-johnson-still-hoping-to-work-on-his-star-wars-trilogy/

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

…get the hell outta here…

 

[MisterPenguin]

…get the hell outta here…

It's like saying "Sirwalterraleigh" three times in a mirror...