News Remy's Ratatouille Adventure coming to Epcot

[Giss Neric]

June seems super late to me. With Marni’s timeframe I think we are looking at the early March time but even that seems late to me.

Are we talking grand opening or soft openings? I could see a soft opening in February.

Well, if the entrance is just covered with those bushes and they are putting in plants and flowers right now it seems it will be weeks and not months away. Valentines opening would be great.

 

[FigmentFan82]

Aesthetically, Remy's Paris and EPCOT's Paris are really not the same Paris.

Actually this is not really true. The film is beautifully animated and none of the settings or places have any degree of caricature to them. Paris in the film Ratatouille looks like it does IRL. The only thing given caricature in the film are the people and the rats. The making of docs even discuss how the kitchen is modeled to be identical to an authentic French restaurant kitchen.

As for the "toons in Epcot" debate. The fab five have been there for a long time so precedent was always established (also Figment). That argument simply boils down to whether you like it or not. And I think it's fine that people would prefer to not have as much toon presence in Epcot. But at the end of the day, it's a Disney park, and Disney gonna Disney

 

[marni1971]

As for the "toons in Epcot" debate.

It’s more an “overkill of IP in Epcot” debate

 

[FigmentFan82]

It’s more an “overkill of IP in Epcot” debate

fair enough

 

[wdw71fan]

It’s more an “overkill of IP in Epcot” debate

Not that I have to tell you.. but just wait, theres more

 

[marni1971]

Not that I have to tell you.. but just wait, theres more

To be honest, I’ve given up on the park.

 

[_caleb]

Actually this is not really true. The film is beautifully animated and none of the settings or places have any degree of caricature to them. Paris in the film Ratatouille looks like it does IRL. The only thing given caricature in the film are the people and the rats. The making of docs even discuss how the kitchen is modeled to be identical to an authentic French restaurant kitchen.

As for the "toons in Epcot" debate. The fab five have been there for a long time so precedent was always established (also Figment). That argument simply boils down to whether you like it or not. And I think it's fine that people would prefer to not have as much toon presence in Epcot. But at the end of the day, it's a Disney park, and Disney gonna Disney

To me, the argument against animation IP in Epcot isn’t so much about “can you find characters in the parks/on merch” as it is “is Epcot supposed to represent real places or imaginary ones?“ World Showcase was always realistic (if scaled down) representations of real places. This was changed with the addition of Arrendelle (making the Norway pavilion a caricature) and now Ratatouille, which is making the French pavilion a caricature).

Ratatouille the film definitely does not try to present a photo-realistic Paris, but rather a romantic, timeless, surrealistic one with exaggerated textures, diffused lighting, and muted colors.

You can see this represented in the pavilion—in the front, scale, colors, proportions, lines, and angles are realistic. As you move around into the new Ratatouille courtyard, the design gradually changes—colors are more saturated, lines are softer. As your eye moves from street level up and to the “distance” of the 2D facades, the design becomes much more “cartoony”—chimneys become bent at extreme angles, lines skewed in the unrealistic forced rat-perspective from the film, textures are exaggerated, and uneven lines.

 

[FigmentFan82]

Ratatouille the film definitely does not try to present a photo-realistic Paris, but rather a romantic, timeless, surrealistic one with exaggerated textures, diffused lighting, and muted colors.

You can see this represented in the pavilion—in the front, scale, colors, proportions, lines, and angles are realistic. As you move around into the new Ratatouille courtyard, the design gradually changes—colors are more saturated, lines are softer. As your eye moves from street level up and to the “distance” of the 2D facades, the design becomes much more “cartoony”—chimneys become bent at extreme angles, lines skewed in the unrealistic forced rat-perspective from the film, textures are exaggerated, and uneven lines.

Romantic as it may be, the settings in the film are not caricatured. I have no idea why they may have caricatured the expansion area of the pavillion, but that is not reflective of the film. Again, the only thing that is caricatured in the film are the people and the rats

 

[JohnD]

Pure educated guess: March.

First week would be nice. That's when I'm going. Or more accurately when I have plans to go.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Actually this is not really true. The film is beautifully animated and none of the settings or places have any degree of caricature to them. Paris in the film Ratatouille looks like it does IRL. The only thing given caricature in the film are the people and the rats. The making of docs even discuss how the kitchen is modeled to be identical to an authentic French restaurant kitchen.

As for the "toons in Epcot" debate. The fab five have been there for a long time so precedent was always established (also Figment). That argument simply boils down to whether you like it or not. And I think it's fine that people would prefer to not have as much toon presence in Epcot. But at the end of the day, it's a Disney park, and Disney gonna Disney

As someone who both loves the design of the movie and has spent time living in Paris . . . it is caricatured. It is very Well Caricatured - it isn't egregious, it has a strong basis in the truth - but it's not a photorealistic representation of Paris. That's not a criticism - it's an animation, it would look weird to have cartoony Rats scampering over perfectly realistic rooftops. It was clearly their intention to soften things a little.

Soul does the same - there's been a lot of talk of the accuracy of its representation of New York City, but anyone who lives there will tell you it's still a caricatured version of it. It just selects the right things to caricature. Pixar is very good about this.

Ratatouille does this too, and it's reflected even in the arcitecture of the new facades in EPCOT - everything's a little more squat, the walls run at funny upward angles, the pipes and chimneys are eccentric. The existing France Pavilion facades are generally very slender with a lot of verticality and upright angles, and the pipes all run in rational ways. Even the Cornerstones are perfectly
"stacked" - in Ratatouille they're all stacked irregularly.

Compare:

I've got screenshots from the film that I can share as well, but I figured for the topic at hand the actual constructions in EPCOT were the most pertinent.

Again, none of this is a knock against Ratatouille or its interpretation of Paris - but it's fair to say it doesn't follow all the same rules as the 82 original France Pavilion. They're both different interpretations of the same source.

 

[wdw71fan]

To be honest, I’ve given up on the park.

Sad truth really.. It's not, and never will be, what it once was... It's not visionary anymore, it's turning into Magic Kingdom B

 

[marni1971]

Sad truth really.. It's not, and never will be, what it once was... It's not visionary anymore, it's turning into Magic Kingdom B

Yep. I’ll go for some traditional food. Meet a few friends. China, France, Canada, AmAd, Land. Then go to Uni.

 

[Bocabear]

As someone who both loves the design of the movie and has spent time living in Paris . . . it is caricatured. It is very Well Caricatured - it isn't egregious, it has a strong basis in the truth - but it's not a photorealistic representation of Paris. That's not a criticism - it's an animation, it would look weird to have cartoony Rats scampering over perfectly realistic rooftops. It was clearly their intention to soften things a little.

Soul does the same - there's been a lot of talk of the accuracy of its representation of New York City, but anyone who lives there will tell you it's still a caricatured version of it. It just selects the right things to caricature. Pixar is very good about this.

Ratatouille does this too, and it's reflected even in the arcitecture of the new facades in EPCOT - everything's a little more squat, the walls run at funny upward angles, the pipes and chimneys are eccentric. The existing France Pavilion facades are generally very slender with a lot of verticality and upright angles, and the pipes all run in rational ways. Even the Cornerstones are perfectly
"stacked" - in Ratatouille they're all stacked irregularly.

Compare:

View attachment 524139


View attachment 524142

I've got screenshots from the film that I can share as well, but I figured for the topic at hand the actual constructions in EPCOT were the most pertinent.

Again, none of this is a knock against Ratatouille or its interpretation of Paris - but it's fair to say it doesn't follow all the same rules as the 82 original France Pavilion. They're both different interpretations of the same source.

It's light caricature and a romanticized vision of what Paris is... It is not a mythical place, the buildings and style evoke the feeling of Paris....which is all it was trying to do...and in the end it is very successful. I think it feels more French than say the Italy pavilion feels Italian...
As far as IP and cartoons in EPCOT, this seems like the most appropriate way to do it... Content makes sense... it fits.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Romantic as it may be, the settings in the film are not caricatured. I have no idea why they may have caricatured the expansion area of the pavillion, but that is not reflective of the film. Again, the only thing that is caricatured in the film are the people and the rats

Ah, missed this . . .

Here are some screenshots from the movie. Compare the details and eccentricities with what they've now built in EPCOT . . . it's reflective of the film. They were working from its style. Some architectural elements were even directly lifted - check out the Chimneys on top of Guesteaus vs. those over the main entrance of the ride. Imagineering didn't make it up:

Like I said, it's a GOOD caricature, and scans as regular at a quick glance, but it's demonstrably a different take than the rest of the Pavilion, which was my point from the beginning. Pixar included irregularities everywhere that you wouldn't find in the original parts of the Pavilion.

To the film's credit, it does also put its Eiffel Tower on top of other buildings That's obviously Pixar taking a liberty to get more of the iconic structure in view, but it does sort of accidentally look like the full Tower is situated on top of other buildings. But then, even EPCOT Center made the point to not build the lowest third of the Tower, knowing that from a similar relative vantage point it would be blocked by nearer buildings, which maybe makes for a good microcosm of the difference between EPCOT's France and Remy's France:

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

It's light caricature and a romanticized vision of what Paris is... It is not a mythical place, the buildings and style evoke the feeling of Paris....which is all it was trying to do...and in the end it is very successful. I think it feels more French than say the Italy pavilion feels Italian...
As far as IP and cartoons in EPCOT, this seems like the most appropriate way to do it... Content makes sense... it fits.

I mean, it's a version of Paris where Rats can cook (and, indeed, be in contention for the finest in France #SpoilerAlert). Not mythical, but not wholly real, and you can tell by looking at it.

My point is that the romanticization of Paris in Ratatouille and the one already on display at EPCOT are not totally congruent, and that bears out in the different architectural stylings that are now both onsite in World Showcase.

Wrapping around the corner of the Pavilion seems to give sufficient space to transition visually from one to the other, but that there need be a transition speaks to what I'm saying.

 

[aladdin2007]

Yep. I’ll go for some traditional food. Meet a few friends. China, France, Canada, AmAd, Land. Then go to Uni.

speaking of, and I know this isn't the thread for it but is the new China film still going to happen or have they decided to ax that?

 

[marni1971]

speaking of, and I know this isn't the thread for it but is the new China film still going to happen or have they decided to ax that?

So far as I knew it was in production. Given a tie in with the live action Mulan that didn’t go as planned I don’t know.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

So far as I knew it was in production. Given a tie in with the live action Mulan that didn’t go as planned I don’t know.

Did it ever make it to post? They showed a clip in the experience film so they at least got some filming done.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I mean, it's a version of Paris where Rats can cook (and, indeed, be in contention for the finest in France #SpoilerAlert). Not mythical, but not wholly real, and you can tell by looking at it.

My point is that the romanticization of Paris in Ratatouille and the one already on display at EPCOT are not totally congruent, and that bears out in the different architectural stylings that are now both onsite in World Showcase.

Wrapping around the corner of the Pavilion seems to give sufficient space to transition visually from one to the other, but that there need be a transition speaks to what I'm saying.

The attraction, at least in France, also goes the extra, contradictory, step of including rat motifs in the architectural ornamentation of the land.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

The attraction, at least in France, also goes the extra, contradictory, step of including rat motifs in the architectural ornamentation of the land.

Yeah, I didn’t love that. I get the impulse at Disneyland Paris to build a version of Paris that can’t simply be found in . . . well, Paris, but it doesn’t really agree with the story.

But then, the ride isn’t really free from that either. There are big gaps of logic and seams in the guest experience. I liked what they wanted to do but I didn’t feel like they fully committed to it, just made what they did build very shiny.

I found the whole Ratatouille development in WDS to be a little overwrought and under-thought.

Which, ironically, makes it a perfect fit for this iteration of EPCOT.