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News Refurbishment coming soon to Disney's Polynesian Village Resort - Moana details to be included

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I agree.

I know everyone likes to laugh at Zach's posts about Epcot, but at least those pay lip service to the idea Disney is supposed to pay attention to small details and the choice of materials used. The message this project sends is that Disney's theming standards are now that if they want to build something that appears to be a wooden structure they'll just paint the steel and concrete brown. Some globes in a net are close enough to glass floats.
There is a balance there that just isn’t valued anymore. Zach’a problem seems to be he doesn’t understand that the “Rodhe” school didn’t work either…the decades of overspending like sailors in Singapore has repercussions that lower quality too.
Whoah boy. I guess I should read the WDI thread and see what you're talking about. I only saw the WDI thread title and thought, "Huh? The Walt Disney Institute is still around?" I forgot about the other I.
It’s been a very tangible/interesting actual news week for TWDC…

…but I bet most people are still asking about parades and how to get a boarding group for Attack of the Abrams🤪
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
There is a balance there that just isn’t valued anymore. Zach’a problem seems to be he doesn’t understand that the “Rodhe” school didn’t work either…the decades of overspending like sailors in Singapore has repercussions that lower quality too.
Was that a Rhode problem or a WDI problem, though?

I know he was an easy target because of the research trips, but they seem almost like incidental expenses when you look at what things like The Little Mermaid, Guardians, and Pixar Pier cost. In other words, there doesn't seem any particular correlation between Rhode and WDI projects costing obscene amounts... and at least Rhode's projects were generally good even when he was handed bad projects like an Avatar land for Animal Kingdom.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Was that a Rhode problem or a WDI problem, though?

I know he was an easy target because of the research trips, but they seem almost like incidental expenses when you look at what things like The Little Mermaid, Guardians, and Pixar Pier cost. In other words, there doesn't seem any particular correlation between Rhode and WDI projects costing obscene amounts... and at least Rhode's projects were generally good even if he was handed bad projects like an Avatar land for Animal Kingdom.
I wouldn't call Pandora a bad project...at least it made excellent use of his talents and is nice to look at. Dinorama, I would call a bad project.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't call Pandora a bad project...at least it made excellent use of his talents and is nice to look at. Dinorama, I would call a bad project.
That's what I mean, though. I still don't think building a land based on Avatar was a good fit for Animal Kingdom (or probably anywhere). What he and the other Imagineers working on the project came up with, though, was actually surprisingly compelling.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
They secured a line of credit to be sure they had sufficient capital to keep operating for a couple of years. They didn't use it for the most part and had enough cash on hand and coming in to get through. The company is not deep in debt.
It's future may be a bit up in the air though if investments don't pay out.
That’s how it appears to have played. Disney may have been given blank checks from the US treasury as well…it was never disclosed - on purpose.
Was that a Rhode problem or a WDI problem, though?

I know he was an easy target because of the research trips, but they seem almost like incidental expenses when you look at what things like The Little Mermaid, Guardians, and Pixar Pier cost. In other words, there doesn't seem any particular correlation between Rhode and WDI projects costing obscene amounts... and at least Rhode's projects were generally good even when he was handed bad projects like an Avatar land for Animal Kingdom.
It’s long been rumored an ambiguous “culture” problem…what that is for sure up for debate.

but overspending has been a huge problem for decades. And there was a figurehead for that.

I’d also argue that avatarland is a smash compared to the original DAK construction and Aulani
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I wouldn't call Pandora a bad project...at least it made excellent use of his talents and is nice to look at. Dinorama, I would call a bad project.
To be fair to Joe…Dino Rama was 1000% damage control. It’s good to bring that up because it’s a great example of how management has zero requirement to tell the truth…they denied it forever.

the problem for Joe was that he created the damage by delivering 2/3 of a park for twice the cost (again…fun with numbers)…

avatar…you have to think…was what it is because Cameron and rhode had to offset each other…therefore being more efficient than either ever are on their own. It worked pretty well.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
the problem for Joe was that he created the damage by delivering 2/3 of a park for twice the cost (again…fun with numbers)…
I kind of forgive him for that as he delivered a park that, at least in my opinion, is second only to Disneyland in the United States. In terms of WDW, it became the resort's second park within 20 years over Epcot and DHS. Compare that to the attraction-dense DCA that opened a few years later, had to undergo an extreme makeover, and is still facing an identity crisis.

Furthermore, if not for DAK, would we have ever born witness to KiteTales? WooHoo!
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I kind of forgive him for that as he delivered a park that, at least in my opinion, is second only to Disneyland in the United States. In terms of WDW, it became the resort's second park within 20 years over Epcot and DHS. Compare that to the attraction-dense DCA that opened a few years later, had to undergo an extreme makeover, and is still facing an identity crisis.
Yeah…I know that’s the popular, Star Wars prequel era kinda thought train…and I like dak…for sure…

but it was never completed…and still is a full day park only if you stretch it a tad…

that was original sin. The scoreboard doesn’t lie

dak is at best the 4th best US park…now maybe 3rd because they’re letting Godzilla chapek actively destroy another
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Yeah…I know that’s the popular, Star Wars prequel era kinda thought train…and I like dak…for sure…

but it was never completed…and still is a full day park only if you stretch it a tad…

that was original sin. The scoreboard doesn’t lie

dak is at best the 4th best US park…now maybe 3rd because they’re letting Godzilla chapek actively destroy another
I think the issue is that we saw two approaches to building a new US Disney park post-Disneyland Paris, one was DAK and the other DCA. The latter had more attractions and could technically occupy you for longer but took a minimalist/ironic approach to theming, the former was a half-day park but was at least Disney quality if not raising the bar of what Disney quality theming meant. In that context, Rhode and DAK emerge as the one relatively good thing that was happening within WDI at the time rather than the problem. I think that's borne out by the amount of money that they had to spend on theming DCA after it opened.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think the issue is that we saw two approaches to building a new US Disney park post-Disneyland Paris, one was DAK and the other DCA. The latter had more attractions and could technically occupy you for longer but took a minimalist/ironic approach to theming, the former was a half-day park but was at least Disney quality if not raising the bar of what Disney quality theming meant. In that context, Rhode and DAK emerge as the one relatively good thing that was happening within WDI at the time rather than the problem. I think that's borne out by the amount of money that they had to spend on theming DCA after it opened.
Oh I agree with you there (not surprising…we rarely disagree)…but I think that’s a lot of corporate politics/timing as well.

eisner practically forced that park down the boards (and Roy’s) throats. He was the champion of it (in the beginning)

it was well into planning before euro hit disaster level. And they were convinced euro would exceed all parks - including Tokyo - in smashing demand/success…

so dak was the last “old guard” park…but the bills just got too high. Which is why they won’t Build another in the US (amongst other reasons)

the detail is great…but a better dinoland or the fantasy realm would be better than authentic downspouts in harambe today
 

Beacon Joe

Well-Known Member
That's what I mean, though. I still don't think building a land based on Avatar was a good fit for Animal Kingdom (or probably anywhere). What he and the other Imagineers working on the project came up with, though, was actually surprisingly compelling.

I hand it to Rohde and his team for taking a film I never watched and have absolutely no interest in, and developing a land that I actually enjoy visiting despite the fact that I still think it's a little stretch for Animal Kingdom.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I hand it to Rohde and his team for taking a film I never watched and have absolutely no interest in, and developing a land that I actually enjoy visiting despite the fact that I still think it's a little stretch for Animal Kingdom.
I think a big part of that credit is because there was outside collaboration with people that LOVED the material (even if none of the audience remembers a damn thing about it)

that’s why the immersive element came through. You have to love it just to look at…not just want to use it as an asset on a spread sheet.

I can think of some other lands of late where they didn’t love it…they just built it as a trophy
 

DznyRktekt

Well-Known Member
Speaking of downspouts.. Why wouldn't you feature these on the front of the columns? Very questionable design decisions on this project.

1638458329844.png
 

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