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Protest at Disney cancelled

s8film40

Well-Known Member
No one is really ignoring it. People just have different potential solutions to deal with it. And due to this, we end up many times not doing much, at least at a federal level.
This is the real issue. People say they want “discussion”, but they don’t. What they really want is everyone else to just agree with them. That will never happen.

If every time one of these things happens you say we should be discussing this yet you refuse to listen to the other side you’re part of the problem.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
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Solidarity with whom? You all are talking about solidarity with a group of kids who are acting like brats, completely condescending, and are using the deaths of classmates for a political agenda. I do think they want shootings to stop, but they’ve twisted this into something much more.. all the while being hateful and attention-craving about it.

Have you watched/donate/attended any events/gofundme put on by the actual victim’s families?
Do you even know they exist? Do you know that celebrities have donated millions towards these walks, but not towards safety platforms which could actually make a difference?
I have. I was at March for our Lives in DC. Since you weren’t, maybe take some time to listen to the speakers who weren’t from MSD, many were young people of color who have lived with gun violence their entire lives. Their voices are rarely heard because they weren’t given a platform.
WRT your making a difference point, money raised to organzied “these walks” made them possible beucase many couldn’t afford to attend otherwise. “These walks” will lead to change in the long run. They are a platform to build on so that things can change for good. One off expenditures won’t fix that.
 

aw14

Well-Known Member
This is the real issue. People say they want “discussion”, but they don’t. What they really want is everyone else to just agree with them. That will never happen.

If every time one of these things happens you say we should be discussing this yet you refuse to listen to the other side you’re part of the problem.
100% agree

Neither side is willing to have discussions. Both sides are more interested in maintaining their argument at anything else.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I have. I was at March for our Lives in DC. Since you weren’t, maybe take some time to listen to the speakers who weren’t from MSD, many were young people of color who have lived with gun violence their entire lives. Their voices are rarely heard because they weren’t given a platform.
WRT your making a difference point, money raised to organzied “these walks” made them possible beucase many couldn’t afford to attend otherwise. “These walks” will lead to change in the long run. They are a platform to build on so that things can change for good. One off expenditures won’t fix that.
I’m more interested in realistic tangible change.. such as safety and prevention... not walks, without a clear message, but loaded with trendy tweetable protest signs.

What change is the campaign asking for? What exactly is the message?
 

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
I have. I was at March for our Lives in DC. Since you weren’t, maybe take some time to listen to the speakers who weren’t from MSD, many were young people of color who have lived with gun violence their entire lives. Their voices are rarely heard because they weren’t given a platform.
Nope. These are spoiled brats who are totally being manipulated by adults and the fake news media. These kids certainly can't be thinking for themselves and are tired of hearing about schools across the country being shot up and students being killed.

Seriously.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I’m more interested in realistic tangible change.. such as safety and prevention... not walks, without a clear message, but loaded with trendy tweetable protest signs.

What change is the campaign asking for? What exactly is the message?
I’m not your civics or US Gov teacher. If you don’t understand how democracy works and how the current American political system works, that’s on you.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I’m not your civics or US Gov teacher. If you don’t understand how democracy works and how the American political system works, that’s on you.
So.. no answer, because no one really knows.

In lieu of an actual answer, we’ll default to an attempted insult instead. —- this is the common action, and people wonder why a large portion of this country can’t take that “movement” seriously.:hilarious:
 

aw14

Well-Known Member
Nope. These are spoiled brats who are totally being manipulated by adults and the fake news media. These kids certainly can't be thinking for themselves and are tired of hearing about schools across the country being shot up and students being killed.

Seriously.
No one here is saying that, which I am sure you know.

I’m not your civics or US Gov teacher. If you don’t understand how democracy works and how the current American political system works, that’s on you.
this was your answer to a question about what change the group wanted? Are you sure 21 is the one that needs to be retaught? :happy:
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
Nope. These are spoiled brats who are totally being manipulated by adults and the fake news media. These kids certainly can't be thinking for themselves and are tired of hearing about schools across the country being shot up and students being killed.

Seriously.
I wouldn't say they are manipulated. And I don't doubt their sincerity. But one, there is a history in this country and the world of pushing crappy policy ideas and agendas forward because "it is for the children." "We have to pass this policy because, 'think of the children.'" Two, there are other kids who do not align with these ideas and have entirely different thoughts about dealing with the problem. And three, being through a tragic event may give you an opportunity for a louder voice, but that alone does not make you an expect on solving complex problems. So I am fine with these kids having a voice, and they should be heard. But, the adults in the room still need stand up and get together to come up with policies that will actually have a positive effect on the problem or problems at hand.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
of course. Is the suggestion that all students across the country should stand together?

The problem is, when kids are allowed into the fray its gets a little hairy and can tarnish what they are trying to accomplish. Allowing them to yell and scream at people (CNN conference with Rubio as an example) does not help their cause and will not lead to any productive change.
The main problem is that people are assuming/forcing solidarity on all kids/and all Americans.

Do we all stand in solidarity as to the subject of wanting school shootings to stop? Of Course!
Do we/ or all students across the nation, need to stand in solidarity with one vocal group (who has been handed a national platform) about how to stop it, a group who’s message can’t even be defined beyond emotions and “I want shootings to stop!”? No.

If the CNN town hall wasn’t enough, The $ and cents name tags are a perfect example of why this movement is more emotional and less about solutions.
 

OneofThree

Well-Known Member
The main problem is that people are assuming/forcing solidarity on all kids/and all Americans.
. . . a hallmark of modern-progressivism. Diversity?


The hypocrisy is that the media and those using these kids as political pawns are primarily responsible for feeding their fears. I recall being in school during the cold war, when we just didn't know when/if that day was going to come. Strange though, we were never incited to "protest" against the arms race. I recall these posted by all the exterior doors -to my elementary school.

 

aw14

Well-Known Member
. . . a hallmark of modern-progressivism. Diversity?


The hypocrisy is that the media and those using these kids as political pawns are primarily responsible for feeding their fears. I recall being in school during the cold war, when we just didn't know when/if that day was going to come. Strange though, we were never incited to "protest" against the arms race. I recall these posted by all the exterior doors -to my elementary school.

can't like this enough.

Ironically, my parents were from 2 different countries during the early stages of the cold war. My father's take from England as opposed to my mothers from Brooklyn are quite comical. Of course real fears, but no protests.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
. . . a hallmark of modern-progressivism. Diversity?


The hypocrisy is that the media and those using these kids as political pawns are primarily responsible for feeding their fears. I recall being in school during the cold war, when we just didn't know when/if that day was going to come. Strange though, we were never incited to "protest" against the arms race. I recall these posted by all the exterior doors -to my elementary school.

can't like this enough.

Ironically, my parents were from 2 different countries during the early stages of the cold war. My father's take from England as opposed to my mothers from Brooklyn are quite comical. Of course real fears, but no protests.
Yes, but were your classmates all banding together to vote a specific party out of office? Because really, that’s what this boils down to.. and I can’t believe anyone who says otherwise.
If it was just about shootings, then these kid’s twitter pages wouldn’t be filled with every flavor-of-the-moment liberal ‘cause’.
 

GeneralZod

Well-Known Member
. . . a hallmark of modern-progressivism. Diversity?


The hypocrisy is that the media and those using these kids as political pawns are primarily responsible for feeding their fears. I recall being in school during the cold war, when we just didn't know when/if that day was going to come. Strange though, we were never incited to "protest" against the arms race. I recall these posted by all the exterior doors -to my elementary school.
I believe the proper term here is indoctrination. Capitalizing on a child's fears and feelings to promote your political agenda is deplorable.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
Are people really so callous that they would refer to the grief and outrage of schoolchildren who witnessed their classmates being shot in front of them as "muh feelings"?
Some of these students at Parkland clearly knew Cruz was a problem and capable of these actions. Where were they? DId they report him? DId they take any responsibility.
Oh don't be simple. I know that not all of them have seen friends die but maybe they are tired of hearing about students being shot down just going to school. Is this "die in" dumb... yes but so is doing nothing time and time again after we lose our sons and daughters to gun violence.

On another note but same topic I find it pretty disgusting that people are making fun of and mocking the kids that are doing this and are trying to make a change. Some people are pretty pathetic.
These same kids knew Cruz was a problem and capable of bizarre and evil behavior. Should they have done something before he exploded? How many of them notified authorities that this a a dangerous person? How many of them expressed concerned to authorities about his behavior? There is plenty of blame for what Cruz did and 99% of it has to do with him-but these students don't get a free pass for their failures.
 

Princess Leia

Well-Known Member
Some of these students at Parkland clearly knew Cruz was a problem and capable of these actions. Where were they? DId they report him? DId they take any responsibility.

These same kids knew Cruz was a problem and capable of bizarre and evil behavior. Should they have done something before he exploded? How many of them notified authorities that this a a dangerous person? How many of them expressed concerned to authorities about his behavior? There is plenty of blame for what Cruz did and 99% of it has to do with him-but these students don't get a free pass for their failures.
He hadn’t been at the school in a year when the shooting happened, so there was an entire group of students (the freshmen that seemed to be predominately attacked) that didn’t know him.

Plus, someone did alert authorities in 2016, but nothing was done with that info: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/timeline-parkland-shooter-nikolas-cruz/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.01d4b74c49f1

He got into fights often, so my guess is that several of the students may have already assumed that officials were keeping an eye on him.

Don’t blame the students on this one, it looks like authority figures on every level in the school and community dropped the ball here.
 

aw14

Well-Known Member
He hadn’t been at the school in a year when the shooting happened, so there was an entire group of students (the freshmen that seemed to be predominately attacked) that didn’t know him.

Plus, someone did alert authorities in 2016, but nothing was done with that info: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/timeline-parkland-shooter-nikolas-cruz/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.01d4b74c49f1

He got into fights often, so my guess is that several of the students may have already assumed that officials were keeping an eye on him.

Don’t blame the students on this one, it looks like authority figures on every level in the school and community dropped the ball here.
Law enforcement really messed up. They were at his house countless times, and it SEEMS little came if it. I am sure there is more we do not know.

Additionally, schools hands can be tied for varying reasons. The student was placed in a therapeutic environment as far as I know, so from that perspective, the school did get him out of the building.
 

disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
. . . a hallmark of modern-progressivism. Diversity?


The hypocrisy is that the media and those using these kids as political pawns are primarily responsible for feeding their fears. I recall being in school during the cold war, when we just didn't know when/if that day was going to come. Strange though, we were never incited to "protest" against the arms race. I recall these posted by all the exterior doors -to my elementary school.

The cold war is incredibly different than the isolated rate of shootings happening in our country vs other countries.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
He hadn’t been at the school in a year when the shooting happened, so there was an entire group of students (the freshmen that seemed to be predominately attacked) that didn’t know him.

Plus, someone did alert authorities in 2016, but nothing was done with that info: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/timeline-parkland-shooter-nikolas-cruz/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.01d4b74c49f1

He got into fights often, so my guess is that several of the students may have already assumed that officials were keeping an eye on him.

Don’t blame the students on this one, it looks like authority figures on every level in the school and community dropped the ball here.
First of all I didn't blame the students exclusively, they just like everyone else in this whole process share some of the blame. They have made a lot of false unthinking accusations and do not get a free pass. You can give them a free pass but I don't. They could have assisted the authorities if they were more responsible and more caring.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
So let’s take a step back with the political activism intruding into leisure activties.

When one does this or a group does this the phrase I most often hear is “to raise awareness”. The problem with this is two fold: one, it assumes that people aren’t aware of the issue being protested, two it assumes that the target audience is “on your side”.

Because here’s the deal if this happens on vacation I doubt I’m going to think “golly gee, thanks for making me sufficiently woke!” The main problem right now to the left EVERYTHING is political as opposed to time and place.

I’m sufficiently politically aware, I don’t need extra credit assignments while on vacation. YMMV.
 
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