Proof of Vaccination or Negative COVID Test required for theme parks soon?

[TP2000]

Spectacular. I had to upload the pics of my vaxx card and ID from my phone twice. Finally accepted it. They sent me a text today telling me it was updated. Then tell me I don't exist in the system..commmmmeeee onnnnnnnnnnnnnn

I don't eat out at restaurants or go to bars or anything, so I never thought about having to show vaccination proof, but potentially showing it to go to Disneyland? That's a whole different story.

I had the exact same issue with the state vaccination app, and I gave up on it months ago.

I spent several months at the family beach house and left my CDC card at home all summer.

But now I have a photo of my CDC card on my phone, in case anyone thinks they need to see it to allow me access to public accomodations. That hasn't happened yet because I primarily exist in Orange County and San Diego County and no one here cares, but I have the photo on my iPhone just in case.

The only scenario like that I could see playing out in my social world is a bar in Palm Springs later this winter. But only if my signature wink-and-smile at the muscle bound bouncer don't work.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

Yes, basically. Pasadena and Long Beach do their own things, with their own city health authorities. Thus, they don't have to go along with whatever LA County's health authority says or recommends.

The cities of Long Beach and Pasadena have their own Health Departments. Anytime we have a drilling job anywhere in LA county, we have to file well permits with the LA county department of public health. EXCEPT for those two cities where we have to file with their departments. We've had a fair amount of work in Long Beach recently and have gotten to know them a bit. Always helpful and on top of things... the County though, those people are pure scum, the absolute worst of the worst stereotypical government workers.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Do they call anyone to report me? The County Sherrif doesn't want to get involved, so who do they call? How far do they go with denying to seat me in the restaurant?

Now let that scenario play out with every shop, mall, barbers, salon, gym, movie theater, etc. in LA County. How does this get enforced? And by whom?

I'm a bit behind on the forum, so I hope this point hasn't been made- but these businesses were closed for months, forced to operate with reduced capacity, restaurants have had to rely on food delivery services which cuts into their margins. The labor market right now is horrible.

So a restaurant owner that is probably just grateful to still be a restaurant owner after this last year is supposed to turn away paying customers? And now the staff are expected to verify this, basically acting as security guards on top of dealing with all the normal difficulties and complaints that come with working in a restaurant.

It's not feasible. It's unrealistic. And it's asinine.

 

[Heppenheimer]

@Heppenheimer can I ask, do you speak Spanish? Are you a native Spanish speaker, or did you learn it later? which dialect do you speak if you do?

The reason why I am asking isn't to pick on you, but it helps put this conversation in better context.

I speak English, Dutch and some German, and learned some French that I've mostly forgotten. Like Spanish and unlike English, all of these languages use grammatical gender (which is not completely the same as the concept of "natural gender"), although 90% of Dutch nouns fall under one gender.

The issue isn't releveant to Spanish language use because we're talking about a lone word from Spanish that was adopted into English (Latino) and another that was created for English (Latinx). Although English readily borrow words from other languages, English doesn't adapt the native language's grammar rules that might exist for those words. For example, we don't inflect adjective modifers to match the grammatical gender of all those food-based nouns English has adopted from French (buffet, champagne, filet, soufle, etc.). For borrowed French words that actually have different forms for each gender, we've mostly just used the male form and made it gender-neutral in English (chef, professor, etc.). This would fit with the customary gender-neutral use of the term "Latino",in English, both as a noun and adjective.

I don't speak any Spanish, but I assume in Spanish, "Latino" signifies male gender. If Spanish speakers feel they need a gender-neutral version of this word, then who am I to object? I just don't understand why English needs an awkward, invented word like "Latinx" when the word "Latino'' in common English usage was already gender neutral.

BTW, "Latino" is also occasionally used in Dutch and German as well. It has the same natural gender-neutral connotation as in English, although for grammar purposes its use in Dutch fits with the common gender, and feminine in German.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I speak English, Dutch and some German, and learned some French that I've mostly forgotten. Like Spanish and unlike English, all of these languages use grammatical gender (which is not completely the same as the concept of "natural gender"), although 90% of Dutch nouns fall under one gender.

The issue isn't releveant to Spanish language use because we're talking about a lone word from Spanish that was adopted into English (Latino) and another that was created for English (Latinx). Although English readily borrow words from other languages, English doesn't adapt the native language's grammar rules that might exist for those words. For example, we don't inflect adjective modifers to match the grammatical gender of all those food-based nouns English has adopted from French (buffet, champagne, filet, soufle, etc.). For borrowed French words that actually have different forms for each gender, we've mostly just used the male form and made it gender-neutral in English (chef, professor, etc.). This would fit with the customary gender-neutral use of the term "Latino",in English, both as a noun and adjective.

I don't speak any Spanish, but I assume in Spanish, "Latino" signifies male gender. If Spanish speakers feel they need a gender-neutral version of this word, then who am I to object? I just don't understand why English needs an awkward, invented word like "Latinx" when the word "Latino'' in common English usage was already gender neutral.

BTW, "Latino" is also occasionally used in Dutch and German as well. It has the same natural gender-neutral connotation as in English, although for grammar purposes its use in Dutch fits with the common gender, and feminine in German.

Okay, so you are not a native Spanish speaker, have no culture ties to the Latine population, and are just talking. (I am also very familiar with German gendered language and nouns).

 

[Dear Prudence]

She's also the only woman who has endearingly called me the Mexican slang for a gay man (not sure I should type it here

But there are so many . And, no, you should probably not type it here, because if it's the one I am thinking of, it's also used interchangeably with the 4 letter 4 word

 

[Heppenheimer]

Okay, so you are not a native Spanish speaker, have no culture ties to the Latine population, and are just talking. (I am also very familiar with German gendered language and nouns).

Nope, which is why I have no opinion on the use of the term for Spanish speakers. I am, though, a native English speaker, so I would think that should give me reason to have an opinion on the use of my own language. The topic is the use of a particular Spanish loan word in English and the appropriateness of an invented derivation of that word in English. I'm not fundamentally against the word 'Latinx", I just find it awkward and I think it attempts to solve a problem that didn't exist in common use among native English speakers. I likewise don't really care how Russian, Hungarian, Chinese, Spanish or any other language fits a loanword from English into their unique grammar structure and usage.

Having struggled through "der, die und das" and all the case derivates in German, I'm actually glad that English has mostly abandoned grammatical gender. Dutch at least simplified things by making most nouns a "de" word with much fewer being "het".

 

[TP2000]

I just love this thread!

But where did the week go, it's already Friday?! Time for the Data Dump of misinformation official data from the California Department of Public Health.

We'll start with Orange County (Disneyland, Knott's Berry Farm), which continues to not have a county mask or vaccine mandate. Case rates and hospitalizations continue to decline. As a point of pride, Orange County has some of the finest hospitals in the nation at its disposal. Right now as I type, President Bill Clinton is recovering in an OC hospital just 2 miles south of Disneyland after an infection not related to Covid, and I wish him well.

OC Case Rates continue the decline begun in mid August this week...

Orange County coronavirus tracker: Cases, vaccines, maps and more

Orange County coronavirus tracker: Cases, vaccines, maps and more The coronavirus pandemic continues to take a toll across Orange County. Here is the latest information available from the county an…

www.ocregister.com

 

[TP2000]

Now up to our neighbors to the north, Los Angeles County (Universal Studios, Magic Mountain). LA County does have a mask mandate, and just approved a vaccine mandate to access most public accomodations and private businesses.

And like the rest of SoCal and the nation, it's case rates and hospitalization are also declining from the August peak.

It should be noted that for a graph like this, the LA Daily News combines LA County stats with the stats from the health departments of both Long Beach and Pasadena, as we were discussing above.

LA County coronavirus tracker: Cases, vaccines, maps and more

Los Angeles County coronavirus tracker: Cases, vaccines, maps and more The coronavirus pandemic continues to take a toll across Los Angeles County. Here is the latest information available from hea…

www.dailynews.com

 

[Parteecia]

Now up to our neighbors to the north, Los Angeles County (Universal Studios, Magic Mountain). LA County does have a mask mandate, and just approved a vaccine mandate to access most public accomodations and private businesses.

And like the rest of SoCal and the nation, it's case rates and hospitalization are also declining from the August peak.

View attachment 593683

It should be noted that for a graph like this, the LA Daily News combines LA County stats with the stats from the health departments of both Long Beach and Pasadena, as we were discussing above.

View attachment 593684

LA County coronavirus tracker: Cases, vaccines, maps and more

Los Angeles County coronavirus tracker: Cases, vaccines, maps and more The coronavirus pandemic continues to take a toll across Los Angeles County. Here is the latest information available from hea…

www.dailynews.com

I'm kind of sorry you didn't include the vaccination rates by community because I found this an interesting explanation:

"... Research on the unvaccinated by KFF [Kaiser Family Foundation] from this September showed the most powerful predictor of who remained unvaccinated was not age, politics, race, income or location, but the lack of health insurance. ..."

Opinion | The Unvaccinated May Not Be Who You Think

Science can find a cure for our diseases but not for our societal ills.

www.nytimes.com

 

[TP2000]

I'm kind of sorry you didn't include the vaccination rates by community because I found this an interesting explanation:

"... Research on the unvaccinated by KFF [Kaiser Family Foundation] from this September showed the most powerful predictor of who remained unvaccinated was not age, politics, race, income or location, but the lack of health insurance. ..."

Opinion | The Unvaccinated May Not Be Who You Think

Science can find a cure for our diseases but not for our societal ills.

www.nytimes.com

That makes no sense. The vaccines are free. Everyone knows they are free. Uber even drives you there for free, and the county will give you a Visa gift card when you get vaccinated. For free.

The Covid vaccine is free for every American. Paid for by President Trump's Operation Warp Speed plan. I walked into a CVS in Del Mar last month and got a free booster shot, no appointment needed and no questions asked. Plus a coupon for $5 off Crest Whitening Strips.

If someone doesn't know that the Covid vaccines are free in 2021, they've got bigger problems than that.

 

[Parteecia]

That makes no sense. The vaccines are free. Everyone knows they are free. Uber even drives you there for free, and the county will give you a Visa gift card when you get vaccinated. For free.

The Covid vaccine is free for every American. Paid for by President Trump's Operation Warp Speed plan. I walked into a CVS in Del Mar last month and got a free booster shot, no appointment needed and no questions asked. Plus a coupon for $5 off Crest Whitening Strips.

If someone doesn't know that the Covid vaccines are free in 2021, they've got bigger problems than that.

It does make sense. People without regular contact with the healthcare system, in particular a doctor that they trust, are less likely to get their questions answered or the encouragement they may need. More so if they haven't been able to get care for other, possibly more urgent medical issues they may have. They fall entirely outside of healthcare system for everything. How do you trust what has abandoned you?

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

How do you trust what has abandoned you?

The topic of mistrusting a system as an excuse has been touched on several times in this thread. The answer is the same end statement that people harshly scream at anti-vaxxers-

We are in a pandemic, there is no excuse.

 

[Parteecia]

The topic of mistrusting a system as an excuse has been touched on several times in this thread. The answer is the same end statement that people harshly scream at anti-vaxxers-

We are in a pandemic, there is no excuse.

I agree. I think everyone should be vaccinated. But I also understand that if you've had no or negative interactions with an institution, more needs to change if you want to get the desired outcome.

One concern the article mentioned was fear that if the vaccination made them sick they didn't trust that they could get medical attention, along with jobs with no sick days that could leave them unemployed. A regular doctor could both reassure them about side effects and give them somewhere to turn if they got sick.

I will also say I have no patience with those who have insurance and access and really have no excuse.

 

[TP2000]

They fall entirely outside of healthcare system for everything. How do you trust what has abandoned you?

I guess I could buy into that if we were talking about an annual Flu shot that costs 25 bucks, or a Tetanus booster every 10 years that many people forget. (I got my TDaP booster last year, when was your last one? Get a booster, Tetanus and Diptheria are real!) But a free vaccine for Covid?!?

The free vaccine is available at every WalMart and Target and supermarket in the country. Counties had drive-thru vaccine clinics and giant "supersites". You can not turn on the TV, or radio, or the Internet, or any Social Media without being bombarded with Covid ads to get vaccinated for free.

Even some shady places like McDonald's give out free Covid shots with free cheeseburgers if you get the shot. McDonald's is giving out free Covid shots. Even when their ice cream machine is broken.

McDonald's offers COVID-19 vaccines, free food at select Bay Area locations

Would you like a Bic Mac with that COVID-19 vaccine? You can now get your shot AND free food at these Bay Area McDonald's locations.

abc7news.com

If there are people out there who somehow can't maneuver through 21st century America without realizing the Covid vaccine is free, and is available anytime they want at their local WalMart or Safeway or McDonald's, then those folks have much bigger problems than figuring out how to get a Covid shot. We are clearly talking about people who are profoundly stupid.

 

[TP2000]

@Parteecia, I got curious about vaccine availability in under-served communites, and I honestly do appreciate you bringing it up.

So I went to the LA County website, which offers a tidal wave of demographic information about Covid and vaccines. I punched up one of the least vaccinated zip codes in LA County, the city of Compton's zip code 90059.

Within a five mile radius of that Compton zip code there are currently 142 locations offering free Covid shots. It's a broad mixture of city parks and community centers, public libraries, public schools, quite a few corporate pharmacies like Rite Aid and CVS, independently owned neighborhood pharmacies, a few dozen churches, some youth centers, WalMarts and corporate supermarket chains. No appointments required, no questions asked. For free.

LAC | DPH | COVID-19 Vaccination - How to get vaccinated

Listing of appointments for COVID-19 Vaccination in the Los Angeles County. Includes information on eligibility, vaccine types, available registration systems and unique registration links that have been made available. Additional information provided to assist in preparing for your...

publichealth.lacounty.gov

I don't mean to offend someone, but if you can't figure out why you should get a Covid shot in late 2021 and how to get to a place that has them, there's a bigger problem there.

 

[TP2000]

For those keeping score at home, I punched up Disneyland's zip code 92802 on the federal website that finds vaccine availability for you. 50 locations popped up within 3.6 miles of that zip, but then it stopped. Apparently the federal site maxes out by only giving you 50 locations regardless of how many miles from your zip code you ask for.

The nearest location to Disneyland for a free Covid shot are the CVS and the Walgreens opposite each other at the corner of Katella and Harbor, and they both have walk-ins available from 9am to 8pm.

Find COVID‑19 vaccine locations near you

Vaccines.gov helps you find clinics, pharmacies, and other locations that offer COVID‑19 vaccines in the United States.

www.vaccines.gov

 

[Parteecia]

@Parteecia, I got curious about vaccine availability in under-served communites, and I honestly do appreciate you bringing it up.

So I went to the LA County website, which offers a tidal wave of demographic information about Covid and vaccines. I punched up one of the least vaccinated zip codes in LA County, the city of Compton's zip code 90059.

Within a five mile radius of that Compton zip code there are currently 142 locations offering free Covid shots. It's a broad mixture of city parks and community centers, public libraries, public schools, quite a few corporate pharmacies like Rite Aid and CVS, independently owned neighborhood pharmacies, a few dozen churches, some youth centers, WalMarts and corporate supermarket chains. No appointments required, no questions asked. For free.

LAC | DPH | COVID-19 Vaccination - How to get vaccinated

Listing of appointments for COVID-19 Vaccination in the Los Angeles County. Includes information on eligibility, vaccine types, available registration systems and unique registration links that have been made available. Additional information provided to assist in preparing for your...

publichealth.lacounty.gov

I don't mean to offend someone, but if you can't figure out why you should get a Covid shot in late 2021 and how to get to a place that has them, there's a bigger problem there.

We are talking past each other. You are saying it's available and I am saying that availability is not enough for the uninsured who have no relationship with the healthcare system, no doctor to ask, and even the pharmacist may be intimidating (heck, they can intimidate me and I have far too many interactions with them). Too many questions and no one in their corner.

It's mostly all covered in the article. I would quote more but I don't want to abuse fair use.

 

[TP2000]

We are talking past each other.

Eh, I don't think we are as much as you think.

You are saying it's available and I am saying that availability is not enough for the uninsured who have no relationship with the healthcare system, no doctor to ask, and even the pharmacist may be intimidating (heck, they can intimidate me and I have far too many interactions with them). Too many questions and no one in their corner.

It's illegal in California to not have health insurance. The very poor get free medical/dental/mental health insurance via MediCal, and the working poor get highly subsidized insurance from swanky health systems like Kaiser-Permanente for as low as $1 per month. That's been the law in California for almost two years now, since before Covid.

That doesn't explain, or excuse, why Compton is under-vaccinated and Pasadena is highly vaccinated.

Why Are Californians Required by Law to Have Health Insurance?

Did you know that as of 2020, you need to have health insurance in California or you can face a penalty at tax time? Read all about the individual mandate.

www.coveredca.com

 

[Parteecia]

Still comes back to not comfortable with the healthcare system which was my original point. Insurance and copays etc. for many are still too expensive.

"Affordability barriers prompted 55 percent of low-income people or their household family members to delay getting medical or dental treatment in the past year, such as check-ups, tests, prescriptions and mental health care."

For Many Low-Income Californians, Health Care is Still Too Expensive

Despite health coverage gains under the Affordable Care Act, many low-income Californians are still struggling to afford medical care, with more than half reportedly delaying treatment because of c…

www.calhealthreport.org

The ACA CA penalty has a lot of exemptions. There is no federal penalty.

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/about-ftb/newsroom/health-care-mandate/personal.html#Exemptions