Proof of Vaccination or Negative COVID Test required for theme parks soon?

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TP2000

Well-Known Member
Anyone in California can do that. Just go here:

They'll text you a link with a QR code, that can be saved to Google Wallet, as a photo, or a screenshot.

It doesn't always work for some folks. I couldn't get it to work for me, it said I had no record of vaccination several months after my second shot. The VA knows I'm vaccinated, and CVS was happy to give me a booster for free, but that state system didn't work for me.

But I have to ask... where is everyone going (except LA County) where people are asking for CDC cards? I haven't had a single person or business ask to see mine for the past 8 months. And I get around! :cool:
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
But the OC has been shifting away from that group having power, which I have to assume is why they've been so loud about things.

They are loud about government mandating things, instead of the individual deciding for themselves.

But as the hard data clearly shows, Orange County is a community that is more vaccinated than Los Angeles County, and the White folks in Orange County are the most vaccinated of them all.

So if we're trying to say that White centrists and conservatives in OC are the least vaccinated, the hard data shows that to be completely untrue. Although it's still funny when some folks try and pretend it's not true. ;)

Vaccination Rates as of early October, 2021

California Statewide = 59.4% Vaccinated
Los Angeles County = 60.7% Vaccinated
Orange County = 62.3% Vaccinated
Orange County Whites = 67.8% Vaccinated o_O


If some people here want to criticize a demographic in SoCal that's less vaccinated, it's statistically the Latino and Black communties, particularly in the working class zip codes.

I wish these government sites would track vaccination demographics by income and class instead of race, because I really do think that's a bigger driver than what race you happened to be born as. But they don't do that, they only seem to care about race. Although LA County also tracks by zip code and neighborhood, which is really just tracking by income and class without saying it...

LAC_vaccine_map (10).png


 
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Disney Irish

Premium Member
Again, what's the exit strategy?
The exit strategy in this country continues to be what its always been, to get to herd immunity across the entire nation through vaccinations. Not just pockets of counties within certain states, but the entire nation. Currently the US sits as 66% of eligible people fully vaccinated. We need at least another 10% fully vaccinated before it'd be close to considered herd immunity, some say closer to 80%. Which despite some recent headlines about push back, will likely come when the 5-11 yr old population becomes eligible.

Once that occurs it turns from a pandemic to an endemic. Because as has been known now for a long time this virus is going to continue to be with us for the long haul. So getting a booster will likely be one of those shots you get on a regular basis, whether yearly like the flu vaccine or every couple years like others.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
The exit strategy in this country continues to be what its always been, to get to herd immunity across the entire nation through vaccinations.

There's also many millions of people in the USA who caught Covid and now naturally have many times more antibodies than the vaccinated. So "herd immunity" is likely already here at 65% vaccination rates.

Not just pockets of counties within certain states, but the entire nation. Currently the US sits as 66% of eligible people fully vaccinated. We need at least another 10% fully vaccinated before it'd be close to considered herd immunity, some say closer to 80%. Which despite some recent headlines about push back, will likely come when the 5-11 yr old population becomes eligible.

Once that occurs it turns from a pandemic to an endemic. Because as has been known now for a long time this virus is going to continue to be with us for the long haul. So getting a booster will likely be one of those shots you get on a regular basis, whether yearly like the flu vaccine or every couple years like others.

I'd love for a leader in California, any leader, to actually say that.

There's no exit strategy, with no known stats or data to hold them to on an exit strategy. The best we can get is flip-flops from Dr. Fauci on whether he will let us celebrate Christmas. (News Flash: I don't need anyone's permission to celebrate with my family. We had a wonderful family Thanksgiving and Christmas last year, and we'll have another one this year. Maskless and happy, just as if we were at The French Laundry or Obama's Birthday Party or The Met Gala.)
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
There's also many millions of people in the USA who caught Covid and now naturally have many times more antibodies than the vaccinated. So "herd immunity" is likely already here at 65% vaccination rates.
The debate on length of natural immunity is on-going, in some cases its been shown to last only as short as 90 days while in others 3-6 months. The best protection continues to be the vaccine.

I'd love for a leader in California, any leader, to actually say that.
Newsom said this in August:

“The one thing that could end this pandemic once and for all is available in abundance to everybody that wants it, regardless of your ability to pay, regardless of your immigration status, it’s available today, and that’s a vaccine.”

Biden said something similar in his address last week about vaccine mandates:

“There is no other way to beat the pandemic than to get the vast majority of the American people vaccinated.”

So they have been saying it, both here in California and in Washington.

There's no exit strategy, with no known stats or data to hold them to on an exit strategy. The best we can get is flip-flops from Dr. Fauci on whether he will let us celebrate Christmas. (News Flash: I don't need anyone's permission to celebrate with my family. We had a wonderful family Thanksgiving and Christmas last year, and we'll have another one this year. Maskless and happy, just as if we were at The French Laundry or Obama's Birthday Party or The Met Gala.)

Sorry but you're wrong, you may not agree with it, but there is an exit strategy. The exit strategy continues to be the same, get to herd immunity through vaccinations whether voluntary or mandated. At which time this pandemic will switch to an endemic.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
The debate on length of natural immunity is on-going, in some cases its been shown to last only as short as 90 days while in others 3-6 months. The best protection continues to be the vaccine.

Huh? That's almost the exact opposite of everything I've read, albeit in Far Left newspapers like The Washington Post who routinely post Fake News and can not be trusted.

It's a new disease. People who get Covid have strong antibodies, many times more than the vaccine generates, for 8 months and more after infection. They're still researching it because they've only known about this disease for less than two years. From the Post article of 9/15/21 which is behind a paywall...

"Studies have suggested the human body retains a robust immune response to the coronavirus after infection. A study published in the journal Science early this year found that about 90 percent of patients studied showed lingering, stable immunity at least eight months after infection."

Or this info, from Nature...


Newsom said this in August:

“The one thing that could end this pandemic once and for all is available in abundance to everybody that wants it, regardless of your ability to pay, regardless of your immigration status, it’s available today, and that’s a vaccine.”

Biden said something similar in his address last week about vaccine mandates:

“There is no other way to beat the pandemic than to get the vast majority of the American people vaccinated.”

So they have been saying it, both here in California and in Washington.

Not a single ballpark figure. Biden came close by saying "vast majority", but what does that mean? 65%? 95%? 99%? And what percent do all the Americans who already had Covid and now have natural immunity count for?

Sorry but you're wrong, you may not agree with it, but there is an exit strategy. The exit strategy continues to be the same, get to herd immunity through vaccinations whether voluntary or mandated. At which time this pandemic will switch to an endemic.

We had clear threshholds to reach and maintain during the Color Coded Keys To the Kingdom or whatever that system was called in 2020 (I honestly forget). There's no such thing now. No vaccination percentage, no hospital usage metric, no case rate per capita, nothing. There's no exit strategy here.

Those two vague politician statements you quoted above mean nothing. Give us a percentage, give us a clear goal, and tell us when we hit it.
 

Disney Irish

Premium Member
Huh? That's almost the exact opposite of everything I've read, albeit in Far Left newspapers like The Washington Post who routinely post Fake News and can not be trusted.

It's a new disease. People who get Covid have strong antibodies, many times more than the vaccine generates, for 8 months and more after infection. They're still researching it because they've only known about this disease for less than two years. From the Post article of 9/15/21 which is behind a paywall...

"Studies have suggested the human body retains a robust immune response to the coronavirus after infection. A study published in the journal Science early this year found that about 90 percent of patients studied showed lingering, stable immunity at least eight months after infection."

Or this info, from Nature...

As I said the debate is still on-going. There is no definitive answer on it, and there probably won't be for a couple years. Different research shows different figures.

From what I've read it appears the average is 6-9 months. But that is just average, and it doesn't mean you're completely protected. So just as with any vaccine its not 100%. I personally know someone who lives in Italy who just got infected again 3 months after their initial infection this past summer. So its not a one size fits all type of answer. Again the vaccine is still the best protection.


Not a single ballpark figure. Biden came close by saying "vast majority", but what does that mean? 65%? 95%? 99%? And what percent do all the Americans who already had Covid and now have natural immunity count for?



We had clear threshholds to reach and maintain during the Color Coded Keys To the Kingdom or whatever that system was called in 2020 (I honestly forget). There's no such thing now. No vaccination percentage, no hospital usage metric, no case rate per capita, nothing. There's no exit strategy here.

Those two vague politician statements you quoted above mean nothing. Give us a percentage, give us a clear goal, and tell us when we hit it.
The consensus at this point is herd immunity is 80% vaccinated, which is higher than originally forecast due to the more contagious Delta variant. Its the real world, things change all the time based on real world factors of a virus that is constantly changing. You can't exactly say "Its over when X is hit" if X is changing based on real world factors. So they give vague answers.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
There's also many millions of people in the USA who caught Covid and now naturally have many times more antibodies than the vaccinated. So "herd immunity" is likely already here at 65% vaccination rates.
One of the things that we learned from the trial of convalescent antibodies to treat moderate to severe COVID-19, though, is that not all antibodies are created equal. It looks like at least a certain percentage of prior infections will not be able to rely on natural immunity, and some data on re-infections may be pointing in this direction.

And this should be stated again and again... we'll only know we've reached herd immunity after the fact. I would think enough predictions of "We've reached herd immunity! The pandemic has ended!" over the past two years have proven wrong that we should at least have some humility by now in our confidence to predict when we've reached that point.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
True. But at least it's more accurate and limited in scope than "Asian", which describes about 4.7 Billion people of the 7.6 Billion people on the planet.

Heck, "White" covers everything from Norwegians to Italians to Iranians. But White is only a fraction of the amount as the 4.7 Billion humans classified as "Asian".

That said, we were discussing American Latinos who increasingly voted for Trump in 2020; often in Texas and the Southwest. Those are primarily Chicanos or Latinos of Central American descent.

There's not a lot of Argentinians in El Paso or Albuquerque. :)
I mean, I do not disagree with these statements at all, I just want to make that point clear. I try to avoid using the umbrella terms as much as possible because I think that they generally do a great disservice both to the people they are referring to, and don't create an accurate picture of the data. A LOT of the Tejanos consider themselves white (whether they are or not, in a lot of Latin American countries, white is a class, not necessarily an ethnicity, white can just mean you are rich). Or they've achieved some modicum of success and then the old Mexican class/ caste system mentality also sets in--the mythical Spanish ancestor, the obsession of being SEEN being waited on, etc. etc. etc. There's a lot of nonsense with the need to see other people as "peasants"---not an exaggeration, an actual term a lot of older folks still use. o_O 😒Mi Gente, humans have walked on the moon, it's time to, IDK how to put this any other way, but...grow up? :/ There's the abortion and the gun stuff, etc., too. To be honest, I don't have a lot of interest in engaging with the Slugs for Salt types, especially since a lot of them are dye in the wool rooted in anti-Indigenousness (whether they are or not) and anti-Blackness, toxic "bootstraps" nonsense, breaking glass ceilings and kicking the ladder out from under you--it goes on and on. It speaks again to the point above where these ethnic conglomerate groups (even by country) are just a disservice.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
One of the things that we learned from the trial of convalescent antibodies to treat moderate to severe COVID-19, though, is that not all antibodies are created equal. It looks like at least a certain percentage of prior infections will not be able to rely on natural immunity, and some data on re-infections may be pointing in this direction.

And this should be stated again and again... we'll only know we've reached herd immunity after the fact. I would think enough predictions of "We've reached herd immunity! The pandemic has ended!" over the past two years have proven wrong that we should at least have some humility by now in our confidence to predict when we've reached that point.

That's a very valid point, and I don't disagree.

I just find it fascinating that in 2020 all sorts of California governments, statewide and local, had all sorts of benchmarks and systems and Color Coded Keys To The Kingdom that were followed to the tenth of a percentage point in order to advance or regress for businesses to follow.

But now? In late 2021? There's just... nothing. No one is talking about how this ends and we go back to normal in California. It's just "Keep masking, keep distancing, and don't plan on Christmas because you aren't as sophisticated as the 500 people that packed into Obama's birthday party this year". :rolleyes:

And the people agreeing to it all are fully vaccinated. The mind boggles at how willing they are to accept absolutely no strategy from their leaders. No exit strategy at all.

And you've got businesses like Disneyland that are having to shell out big bucks to keep all this stuff going indefinitely, with absolutely no idea how long they are supposed to keep this up. Sacramento has absolutely no exit strategy.
 
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Parteecia

Well-Known Member
Amazon has some pretty awful holiday mask designs. I’m trying to find a Halloween or Fall-themed mask before Halloween in a few weeks and I’m so far not impressed, which I’m genuinely shocked about because Amazon tends to have very nice designs for things.
I got some at the Knott's store next to the chicken restaurant.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I mean, I do not disagree with these statements at all, I just want to make that point clear. I try to avoid using the umbrella terms as much as possible because I think that they generally do a great disservice both to the people they are referring to, and don't create an accurate picture of the data. A LOT of the Tejanos consider themselves white (whether they are or not, in a lot of Latin American countries, white is a class, not necessarily an ethnicity, white can just mean you are rich). Or they've achieved some modicum of success and then the old Mexican class/ caste system mentality also sets in--the mythical Spanish ancestor, the obsession of being SEEN being waited on, etc. etc. etc. There's a lot of nonsense with the need to see other people as "peasants"---not an exaggeration, an actual term a lot of older folks still use. o_O 😒Mi Gente, humans have walked on the moon, it's time to, IDK how to put this any other way, but...grow up? :/ There's the abortion and the gun stuff, etc., too. To be honest, I don't have a lot of interest in engaging with the Slugs for Salt types, especially since a lot of them are dye in the wool rooted in anti-Indigenousness (whether they are or not) and anti-Blackness, toxic "bootstraps" nonsense, breaking glass ceilings and kicking the ladder out from under you--it goes on and on. It speaks again to the point above where these ethnic conglomerate groups (even by country) are just a disservice.

Well, thank you. I either agree with some of what you said there, or mildly disagree but can still see your point you are making.

I don't have much knowledge of the Mexican caste system. The few times I've been to Mexico as a typical American tourist and have ventured into town I was delighted by the genuine warmth and hospitality of the Mexicans I met. I think it's a culture that is gracious and fun, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

Also, I am a rabidly enthusiastic fan of the Viva Navidad! show at DCA every Christmas! 😂

I have been a casual student of the American Indian (or Canadian First Nations) tribes of the Pacific Northwest from Alaska to Oregon though, and really get into their language, their art, their cuisine and religion. But the Southwest cultures? I'm mostly clueless on those.

As for Latinos, I mentioned this earlier but at a dinner party several months ago there were three people there who are distinctly Latino and they absolutely railed in disgust on this latest fad the white college kids and do-gooders in HR are into by creating a new word Latinx. I can only imagine how insulting it must be to have uppity white folks create a new gramatically incorrect word in your own language and then try to get you to use it. It's just so typical of where we are as a society, especially among the "Look How Good I Am!" types who often populate our campuses and HR departments. :depressed:

 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
That would a require a desire for it to end.

Hee hee! I know. :D

But honestly, you are going to get businesses and employee groups start to push back, if they haven't already done so. (Southwest Airlines today, who knows what next week or the week after)

An executive planning for future expenditures just can't keep doing this endlessly with no known exit strategy. There needs to be some metrics and clear achievables laid out to explain how this all ends. Especially for small businesses and little mom n' pops.

It's just not nice or kind to string them along indefinitely like this.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
Well, thank you. I either agree with some of what you said there, or mildly disagree but can still see your point you are making.

I don't have much knowledge of the Mexican caste system. The few times I've been to Mexico as a typical American tourist and have ventured into town I was delighted by the genuine warmth and hospitality of the Mexicans I met. I think it's a culture that is gracious and fun, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

Also, I am a rabidly enthusiastic fan of the Viva Navidad! show at DCA every Christmas! 😂

I have been a casual student of the American Indian (or Canadian First Nations) tribes of the Pacific Northwest from Alaska to Oregon though, and really get into their language, their art, their cuisine and religion. But the Southwest cultures? I'm mostly clueless on those.

As for Latinos, I mentioned this earlier but at a dinner party several months ago there were three people there who are distinctly Latino and they absolutely railed in disgust on this latest fad the white college kids and do-gooders in HR are into by creating a new word Latinx. I can only imagine how insulting it must be to have uppity white folks create a new gramatically incorrect word in your own language and then try to get you to use it. It's just so typical of where we are as a society, especially among the "Look How Good I Am!" types who often populate our campuses and HR departments. :depressed:

Latinx is used interchangeably with Latino/ Latin@, but the actual best alternative to Latino is Latine, because E is the gender-neutral letter in Spanish. As a neologism, it's okay. I liked it a lot at first because it reminded me of the X-Men, but Latine actually makes more sense. Latin people, in general, have issues getting rid of gendered language and gender roles, to toxic levels, because it's what they've based their entire identity on and any deviation from that is the end of the world. Any threat to the machismo of any kind directly threatens them...some....how? Latine at least cites its origins from actual Spanish-speaking LGBTQIA+, gender non-binary people. I think it's a nice way for people who existed pre-Colonization to reclaim their identity and assert their Latin-ness, etc. Spanish is a very masculine-leaning language, and I can see how (and agree with) people who want to push back against it if they don't fit into those parameters. I prefer Latine because it makes more grammatical sense (if that makes sense).

Latin people hate change. They hate it to an absurd degree, and whether or not it makes sense to hold onto whatever it is they act like it's all canonical law, when much of the time, they have no idea why they're even doing it.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Well, thank you. I either agree with some of what you said there, or mildly disagree but can still see your point you are making.

I don't have much knowledge of the Mexican caste system. The few times I've been to Mexico as a typical American tourist and have ventured into town I was delighted by the genuine warmth and hospitality of the Mexicans I met. I think it's a culture that is gracious and fun, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

Also, I am a rabidly enthusiastic fan of the Viva Navidad! show at DCA every Christmas! 😂

I have been a casual student of the American Indian (or Canadian First Nations) tribes of the Pacific Northwest from Alaska to Oregon though, and really get into their language, their art, their cuisine and religion. But the Southwest cultures? I'm mostly clueless on those.

As for Latinos, I mentioned this earlier but at a dinner party several months ago there were three people there who are distinctly Latino and they absolutely railed in disgust on this latest fad the white college kids and do-gooders in HR are into by creating a new word Latinx. I can only imagine how insulting it must be to have uppity white folks create a new gramatically incorrect word in your own language and then try to get you to use it. It's just so typical of where we are as a society, especially among the "Look How Good I Am!" types who often populate our campuses and HR departments. :depressed:

English only retains rare vestiges of grammatical gender, and the English use of the term "Latino" was already effectively gender neutral. "Latinx" attempts to solve a problem that didn't exist.

"Latino" is also far from the only gendered word borrowed from another language that became gender neutral in English.
 

Dear Prudence

Well-Known Member
English only retains rare vestiges of grammatical gender, and the English use of the term "Latino" was already effectively gender neutral. "Latinx" attempts to solve a problem that didn't exist.

"Latino" is also far from the only gendered word borrowed from another language that became gender neutral in English.
I read this as "English only retains rare vestiges of grammar."

Anyway, any update on the Magic Mountain policy?
 
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