PERMITS

[Old Mouseketeer]

Can you speak in some more generalities about what the main purposes of those back stage facilities are? Entertainment support, offices, break rooms?

There is obviously some validity in discussions of consolidating the BOH especially with a new facility popping up. I think the entire conversation has been focused on moving it off property, but the cards can be shuffled in that plot.

Even if the functions are fixed, it doesn’t mean a better designed consolidated facility can not be built there. This would presumably be the logical point for them to do so.

Actually, the logical point was when they built DCA. But they wasted acreage. They thought it was so important to build a sprawling hotel (Grand Californian) within the confines of the most constricted park location in the world (DCA). They built nothing underground or on the second floor.

Many of the BOH functions moved for SW:GE, including the staff shops and Circle D Ranch, were due to move off-property for years. But they're running out of things to move. The remaining staff shops they are moving for MMRR are really cutting it to the bone. Repairing animatronics and ride vehicles off-property adds layers of complexity and risk. They're now at the point where they have moved something in the area of 80-90% of what they can. There's really not much left. You're free to develop your own sources to find out more about this, but I've shared as much detail as I'm comfortable with.

IMO, there are a lot of things they could improve. But once things are densely built, it's harder to demo and rebuild. River Belle Terrace complex is a nightmare. They should have rebuilt it while Fan! was down. Between Main St. and Tomorrowland is a great opportunity to build a basement and some second story space. They got rid of the old Mickey's Mint (the prefab modular building that was the CM BofA branch in the '70s and later the emergency command post). The prefab CM service center (opened as "The Center" in the '70s) is also supposed to go. They wimped out on the streamlined crowd bypass on the East side of Main St. They're just not willing to commit the money.

Obviously, I don't understand the value calculation here. The one thing they can't create more of is land within the Resort boundaries, yet they have wasted so much. All of the functions of the two service buildings at the East end of SW:GE could be in basements. They could have stacked the Indy and Pirates queues on the side of the Pirates building. And Adventureland has gone downhill since they built Tiki Room--it may have made sense for 1961-sized crowds, but not 21st century!

I understand that my opinion about moving out more BOH functions is unpopular. But I've given as much detail as I'm comfortable with. Long-time friends have shared things with me essentially off-the-record and I'm not willing to go into more detail. So if people don't believe me, I'm ok with that. I was not surprised by the things they moved for SW:GE, although a few of the details were somewhat surprising to me. The relocations for MMRR are a bit more of a surprise to me because of the operational ramifications. I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Any moves beyond this will have a much greater impact on operations. I can't absolutely predict what they will do in the next 5-10 years but I believe they're running out of options. YMMV.

 

[truecoat]

Actually, the logical point was when they built DCA. But they wasted acreage. They thought it was so important to build a sprawling hotel (Grand Californian) within the confines of the most constricted park location in the world (DCA). They built nothing underground or on the second floor.

Many of the BOH functions moved for SW:GE, including the staff shops and Circle D Ranch, were due to move off-property for years. But they're running out of things to move. The remaining staff shops they are moving for MMRR are really cutting it to the bone. Repairing animatronics and ride vehicles off-property adds layers of complexity and risk. They're now at the point where they have moved something in the area of 80-90% of what they can. There's really not much left. You're free to develop your own sources to find out more about this, but I've shared as much detail as I'm comfortable with.

IMO, there are a lot of things they could improve. But once things are densely built, it's harder to demo and rebuild. River Belle Terrace complex is a nightmare. They should have rebuilt it while Fan! was down. Between Main St. and Tomorrowland is a great opportunity to build a basement and some second story space. They got rid of the old Mickey's Mint (the prefab modular building that was the CM BofA branch in the '70s and later the emergency command post). The prefab CM service center (opened as "The Center" in the '70s) is also supposed to go. They wimped out on the streamlined crowd bypass on the East side of Main St. They're just not willing to commit the money.

Obviously, I don't understand the value calculation here. The one thing they can't create more of is land within the Resort boundaries, yet they have wasted so much. All of the functions of the two service buildings at the East end of SW:GE could be in basements. They could have stacked the Indy and Pirates queues on the side of the Pirates building. And Adventureland has gone downhill since they built Tiki Room--it may have made sense for 1961-sized crowds, but not 21st century!

I understand that my opinion about moving out more BOH functions is unpopular. But I've given as much detail as I'm comfortable with. Long-time friends have shared things with me essentially off-the-record and I'm not willing to go into more detail. So if people don't believe me, I'm ok with that. I was not surprised by the things they moved for SW:GE, although a few of the details were somewhat surprising to me. The relocations for MMRR are a bit more of a surprise to me because of the operational ramifications. I think it will be interesting to see how it plays out. Any moves beyond this will have a much greater impact on operations. I can't absolutely predict what they will do in the next 5-10 years but I believe they're running out of options. YMMV.

Thanks for sharing what you can. I am always interested in information like this and what @Darkbeer1 shares and obviously both people (among others) have to tread lightly on what they say.

 

[180º]

Actually, the logical point was when they built DCA. But they wasted acreage. They thought it was so important to build a sprawling hotel (Grand Californian) within the confines of the most constricted park location in the world (DCA). They built nothing underground or on the second floor.

Grand Californian shares a rather impressive underground service road with Downtown Disney, so I wouldn’t quite say they built nothing underground.

 

[DanielBB8]

I didn't think DCA has any relation with Disneyland in terms of backstage usage. DCA was underdeveloped with vacant land that will soon be put into use so being concerned about the Grand Californian taking up DCA space doesn't make a good argument. I don't consider this hotel to be in DCA. It is clearly outside the park.

You make a good point about Disneyland losing backstage space, but it's increasing an issue of Disney not using their existing spaces to the fullest extent, that you already said. Many lot spaces reserved for flat parking east of Disneyland Drive can be used to host backstage support services. Disney has plenty of money to buy up more property in Anaheim as well. Disney not wanting to do things is well documented. So? It will never be ideal in any case. They can come as close as possible and stop short. Then they exceed it. Reality works this way.

 

[SSG]

BLD2019-01772	Electrical for Disney - Main Street / Central Hub
BLD2019-01817	DCA - Award Wienners/301-A - Tenant Improvement: 595 sq ft for facade renovation with new side wing wall and soffit. Install new canopy structure to support new marquee signanage (separate package). 20 sq ft prefabricated ticket booth to be used as show prop.

SGN2019-00102

Installation of (2) illuminated wall cabinets for "rinse bath & body co."

SGN2019-00103

Disney - Sunset Showcase Theatre - Installation of (1) illuminated wall mounted marquee, (1) illuminated double faced blad sign, and (2) illuminated single face psoter cases.

 

[socalifornian]

I didn't think DCA has any relation with Disneyland in terms of backstage usage. DCA was underdeveloped with vacant land that will soon be put into use so being concerned about the Grand Californian taking up DCA space doesn't make a good argument. I don't consider this hotel to be in DCA. It is clearly outside the park.

You make a good point about Disneyland losing backstage space, but it's increasing an issue of Disney not using their existing spaces to the fullest extent, that you already said. Many lot spaces reserved for flat parking east of Disneyland Drive can be used to host backstage support services. Disney has plenty of money to buy up more property in Anaheim as well. Disney not wanting to do things is well documented. So? It will never be ideal in any case. They can come as close as possible and stop short. Then they exceed it. Reality works this way.

The Grand is outside the park, but I think they were saying that it exists within what should have been DCAs footprint. This park nearly lost a Galaxys Edge amount of land by placing the hotel there when it could’ve gone west of Disneyland Dr. like the other two hotels

 

[DanielBB8]

The park is still not fully built out with the vacant parking lot at the south east. They will still try to build into the transportation area after Eastern Gateway is approved. Hollywood Pictures Backlot has long been unrealized. The north part of Paradise Pier and the Trail are filler attractions. I'm not at all concerned about the Grand Californian.

 

[Anjin]

BLD2019-01817

DCA - Award Wienners/301-A - Tenant Improvement: 595 sq ft for facade renovation with new side wing wall and soffit. Install new canopy structure to support new marquee signanage (separate package). 20 sq ft prefabricated ticket booth to be used as show prop.

What in the world is happening to Award Weiners?

 

[truecoat]

What in the world is happening to Award Weiners?

Taking part of the Muppets queue for some sit down space.

 

[Phroobar]

I don't think I ever waited in the Muppets queue even during the first week of operation. I did for ITTBAB that first week though.

 

[Ismael Flores]

Taking part of the Muppets queue for some sit down space.

they did that a few years back, i wonder where they would be able to take more? the seating area is already up against the entrance queue.

This will certainly be an interesting project.

will they finally get rid of the whole fake facade look and add themed walls to the area? when originally built they wasted quite a bit of real estate for that Muppet movie, the queue was overly long and then they had a fastpass queue wasted a huge area of property between the entrance and exit where they had fastpass machine.

The upper facade was fun to look at but the bottom level was a mess. Anyone remember this pile of metal beams?

 

[disneylandcm]

I didn't think DCA has any relation with Disneyland in terms of backstage usage. DCA was underdeveloped with vacant land that will soon be put into use so being concerned about the Grand Californian taking up DCA space doesn't make a good argument. I don't consider this hotel to be in DCA. It is clearly outside the park.

You make a good point about Disneyland losing backstage space, but it's increasing an issue of Disney not using their existing spaces to the fullest extent, that you already said. Many lot spaces reserved for flat parking east of Disneyland Drive can be used to host backstage support services. Disney has plenty of money to buy up more property in Anaheim as well. Disney not wanting to do things is well documented. So? It will never be ideal in any case. They can come as close as possible and stop short. Then they exceed it. Reality works this way.

When DCA and the Grand were under construction Disney claimed it was the first hotel built inside a Disney theme park.

 

[truecoat]

When DCA and the Grand were under construction Disney claimed it was the first hotel built inside a Disney theme park.

And this is the view from inside DCA...

 

[Phroobar]

I like how anything around the hotel looked amazing until you couldn't see the hotel anymore.

 

[DanielBB8]

This is how a hotel inside a theme park actually looks like for the MiraCosta in Tokyo DisneySeas.

 

[SSG]

BLD2019-01846

Disneyland Resort - Carousel - Tenant Improvement: Install (12) light poles, (1) 100 amp panel and 164 ln ft x 7 ft high fence with swing gate.

BLD2019-01843

Disneyland Resort - Pumbaa Parking Lot - Tenant Improvement: Install (1) 47 sq ft prefabricated guard booth, (1) light pole, (2) motorized gate arms, (1) card reader, (1) 125 amp panel and 35 ln ft x 12 ft high chain link fence and swing gate.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

Grand Californian shares a rather impressive underground service road with Downtown Disney, so I wouldn’t quite say they built nothing underground.

Point taken. I've noticed the entrance to the valet parking area on the South side, and I've seen the open area on the North side from the monorail. You are correct--that's not insignificant. Wish they had done more.

 

[Darkbeer1]

The Valet Parking was an add-on about 10 years ago, same time the DVC units were added.

As for the service tunnel. That was original, but similar to what WDW did. The tunnel was built first, and the trade was lowered a half a story. Then after it was built, they raised the grade to match the top of the tunnels. That is why there is a uphill on the east end of DTD.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

The Valet Parking was an add-on about 10 years ago, same time the DVC units were added.

As for the service tunnel. That was original, but similar to what WDW did. The tunnel was built first, and the trade was lowered a half a story. Then after it was built, they raised the grade to match the top of the tunnels. That is why there is a uphill on the east end of DTD.

I'm unclear as to what that means. I have never been inside any of these areas, so I think it's possible that I don't understand how these spaces are situated.

 

[180º]

I'm unclear as to what that means. I have never been inside any of these areas, so I think it's possible that I don't understand how these spaces are situated.

Picture Disneyland drive going under DTD and you’ll have a good idea of how much they dug out versus how much they built up to the guest level.