Original Epcot In 2018

[Raineman]

There have been multiple discussions about the modern version of Epcot as compared to the 80s-early 90's version of Epcot, and the removal of original attractions, introduction of IP, etc. My hypothetical question is this: if Epcot had remained completely unchanged, what would people today who never experienced the original Epcot think of the park? I know that alot of the "future" technology showcased at Epcot 30 years ago is actually part of our daily lives, but even if Epcot was updated to showcase tech that is futuristic to us now, would the format of the park still pull in guests today, ie the edutainment aspect that all of us that remember original Epcot look upon so fondly. Would Communicore still be packed with kids? Would people ride attractions like WOM, Horizons, or JII over and over? IMO, theme park guests now are more drawn to thrill rides or dark rides tied to Disney IP or attractions that have some fantasy element to them, and do not necessarily want to learn anything, preferring mindless entertainment.

 

[Mmoore29]

I agree very much. Things that are exciting are needed to keep things alive and the blood flowing. That said, I also fully understand where the purists are coming from. I think that if Epcot has a foot in both worlds, to expand and return to some educational content, while adding more thrill rides at the same time, it can work, and everyone will be happy. Besides, Epcot has badly needed a renovation for some time now.

 

[geekza]

If they had been able to adapt and update appropriately, yes. It would still be popular. People loved thrill rides in 1982 as well. This isn't a new development.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

If they had been able to adapt and update appropriately, yes. It would still be popular. People loved thrill rides in 1982 as well. This isn't a new development.

^^ What he said.

 

[Nottamus]

...I still thing NEW is what brings people in. Case in point, FOP. New tech, great ride, long lines

As much as i like the old rides, no one usually misses them until threat of going away.

I was able to ride some old rides, and they are tucked in my memory. all this is just MY opinion, and point of view...others will vary!

 

[Goofyernmost]

If Epcot didn't change for 35+ years it would currently resemble New Orlean's Six Flags after Katrina. Even 25 years ago it was losing guests because not much had changed. That is partially opinion, but, it is based on facts. Attendance, comparatively, had fallen. I don't like what they did do (add festivals and such) but, change it had too! I am not putting the purists down, but, what has been pointed out so many times.. Epcot is not a museum. It is a living theme park that requires a lot of turns of the entrance stile to make it remain alive. It is even truer today. Technology has moved on, demands have altered and it became an absolute impossibility to predict the future. It simply had to change. Many of us that love it as it was have to realize the we will soon be among the folks that no longer physically can do theme parks with the fervor that we once did, or at all, for that matter. Memories will not carry the park forever, cold fact of life. Even MK, the very definition of nostalgia, has had to add things that were unheard of 25 years ago. It is the 21st Century and nothing technologically surprises us anymore nor draws us in to witness. We have already witnessed it!

I suppose we could all think of it as EPCOT... Experimental Prototype Community Of Three decades ago.

 

[geekza]

Alongside Patti LuPone and Bernadette Peters. Where are their pavillions?

PREACH! lol

 

[KBLovedDisney]

But I will say that audiences have changed. People have gotten stupider (see what I did). Attention spans have shortened.

And I think people are losing a major grasp on humanity because our attention spans have been captured by technology.

We as humans once celebrated being human, but now it seems we celebrate the next best technology. So yeah, I think we've lost touch with just celebrating humanity itself.

 

[Raineman]

As usual, I think I may not have gotten the point across exactly like I should have. The point I was trying to make is that if Epcot still existed with the same intent and vision that it originally had, would people in 2018 still enjoy it? The attractions would not be exactly the same, the ideas and tech they would be showcasing would not be the same, but the central idea of knowledge, discovery and creativity would be the same. I think most of us can agree that Epcot has moved away from that, moreso in FW than WS. People in general don't want things at a theme park that make them think, help them learn, spark their creativity and give them hope for the future-they want mindless entertainment, which in itself is not a bad thing, but in a park like Epcot, not the central theme.

 

[disneyflush]

Have you ever lived without access to a cell phone or the Internet? If you have not then its going to be impossible to explain what made Epcot's potential in the first decade and half so amazing to so many people. Your viewpoint can't adjust to making meals before the microwave was invented. The most I can do is say that Epcot, above any other theme park, should have been organically changing very frequently since the day it opened. Always refreshing the content and evaluating itself to stay ahead of the technological curve. It never really did that and lost its identity in the mid-late 90's. As each year passed with no action the problems compounded. The formerly great ride buildings were prostituted out as convention halls and party rooms. The early 2000's became a low point for a lot of reasons. Crowds were low which shelved many plans. Bandaids have been place over certain things but what sits there in 2018 is...just there. It feels like it has no soul.

People would still come for the educational aspect if the rides and attractions merited excitement the way they once did. They should give people a reason to put down their phones for a while and be blown away again.

 

[Raineman]

I understood, I just think knowledge, discovery and creativity aren't terribly important to theme park swarms no matter how its packaged. Unless you can really fool them into thinking they aren't being educated. And with such a general disregard for science and creativity these days, it'd be a hard sell.

Very good point. When I first visited Epcot in 1990, at 16 years old, I was a fairly quiet kid with very good grades who was into technology, the future, and soaking up as much knowledge as possible, so when I experienced Epcot for the first time, I was right in my element-I would have spent the whole day in Communicore if I could have-but even then, that was not representative of your typical Epcot guest. I think, to borrow your phrase, Epcot 30 years ago was set up in a much better way to fool visitors into thinking they weren't being educated than it is now. I do have to say, though, I was surprised during my last WDW visit at my 13 year old DD-she does not particularly like learning, and there were a few attractions, like SSE or CoP, that I thought she would find boring, but she loved them. Maybe there is hope for the current generation, but not really with Epcot in it's current state.

 

[junglecruise93]

My kids are like that as well - my 9 year old son in particular wants to go see every movie in WS as soon as we get in (he likes FW too, don't get me wrong).

 

[Alexianoelle]

There have been multiple discussions about the modern version of Epcot as compared to the 80s-early 90's version of Epcot, and the removal of original attractions, introduction of IP, etc. My hypothetical question is this: if Epcot had remained completely unchanged, what would people today who never experienced the original Epcot think of the park? I know that alot of the "future" technology showcased at Epcot 30 years ago is actually part of our daily lives, but even if Epcot was updated to showcase tech that is futuristic to us now, would the format of the park still pull in guests today, ie the edutainment aspect that all of us that remember original Epcot look upon so fondly. Would Communicore still be packed with kids? Would people ride attractions like WOM, Horizons, or JII over and over? IMO, theme park guests now are more drawn to thrill rides or dark rides tied to Disney IP or attractions that have some fantasy element to them, and do not necessarily want to learn anything, preferring mindless entertainment.

As much as I'd love to think that people would appreciate the original Epcot, after seeing people's reaction to the announcement of illuminations shutting down ( ie: "good riddance" "it doesn't even have Mickey in it" "so lame") im not sure if people would appreciate the learning aspect future world used to be centered around. Attention spans have grown shorter and most kids just want mindless entertainment. I was born in 98 so I unfortunately did not have the pleasure of seeing some of the original attractions (and the ones I have seen are not the original incarnations of the rides). I wish I would have been able to see Epcot how it was when it opened. Seeing little nods to the previous attractions, like the horizons logo in mission space, remind me of the history of Epcot, and make me sad that I didn't get to experience the attractions in person. Thank God for YouTube and the ride videos from the 90s that are posted. I understand change, but IPcot is loosing the idea that the park was built on, to be completely different from the magic kingdom.

 

[marni1971]

There have been multiple discussions about the modern version of Epcot as compared to the 80s-early 90's version of Epcot, and the removal of original attractions, introduction of IP, etc. My hypothetical question is this: if Epcot had remained completely unchanged, what would people today who never experienced the original Epcot think of the park? I know that alot of the "future" technology showcased at Epcot 30 years ago is actually part of our daily lives, but even if Epcot was updated to showcase tech that is futuristic to us now, would the format of the park still pull in guests today, ie the edutainment aspect that all of us that remember original Epcot look upon so fondly. Would Communicore still be packed with kids? Would people ride attractions like WOM, Horizons, or JII over and over? IMO, theme park guests now are more drawn to thrill rides or dark rides tied to Disney IP or attractions that have some fantasy element to them, and do not necessarily want to learn anything, preferring mindless entertainment.

If it was totally unchanged it would be dated beyond belief.

If it had been updated sympathetically, with every major change being an improvement, and with the scale, scope and vision of the original..... that we will never know.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

If it was totally unchanged it would be dated beyond belief.

If it had been updated sympathetically, with every major change being an improvement, and with the scale, scope and vision of the original..... that we will never know.

Gawd that would've been glorious.

 

[Raineman]

If it was totally unchanged it would be dated beyond belief.

If it had been updated sympathetically, with every major change being an improvement, and with the scale, scope and vision of the original..... that we will never know.

Yup, that is exactly what I meant to say, just didn’t say it the way I wanted to-had to post again to get my point across. An updated Epcot, but with the same intent and focus of the original-which is not even close to the Epcot of 2018.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think this is the most interesting debate topic re: WDW. I'm very much in the grey area -- as with most things, Skyliner excepted. I had Epcot ephemera all over my bedroom walls as a kid. Alongside Patti LuPone and Bernadette Peters. Where are their pavillions? But I digress. That's why I'm rather surprised with how my views about the park have changed over the years. Yes, I prefer the Epcot of old. Hell, I wish I'd been able to see more of the old Epcot. Unlike many here, I came around a little later -- so even I may be romanticizing something I didn't experience.

But I will say that audiences have changed. People have gotten stupider (see what I did). Attention spans have shortened. Sure, there were thrill rides when Epcot opened, and people still chose to come to Epcot. But I think there was a substantial portion of the audience who were more likely to spend their time and money on edutainment and dining around the world than there are today. Unless there's a food festival. Yes, I'd prefer the old but people would be on their phones anyway. What does it take to get them off their phones? Updates, yes - but the spirit of Epcot as we like to celebrate here - it can't compete today. Hence, Illuminations. a 15 minute show without characters (or however long it is... I don't keep track)? What a waste. They bought their ticket to see Mickey and by golly, they'd better see Mickey.

Just a quick note. At the time EPCOT opened, people were awestruck by it. And rightfully so. It was a wonderfully creative journey into a slightly disguised edutainment venue. It had never been done before and it took awhile for it to really sink in what was happening. It was great, but, before to long people started to think that if they were going to spend a days admission, they wanted to be just plain entertained. People went to school for education. It worked really well in the beginning and many kids and their parents actually did learn stuff without them knowing that is what was happening because it was done in a fun and creative way. However, the glitter wore off and people got bored with the same message again and again and by the mid 90's, if not sooner, they had to make some changes. Unfortunately, they made some very bad decisions along the way. Now we seem to be stuck between a time warp and nothingness. If they ever get done with DHS... I think Epcot will be the next big target and my suspicion is that none of us original EPCOT lovers are going to be happy with the results.

 

[ppete1975]

The land really hasn't been and its great
Space ship earth has had updates.. some good mostly bad
The living seas (the original concept was great) maybe update it (diff colors diff audio diff story) but could still work
JII honestly with tweaking this could have been great for kids and adults more of a timeless magic kingdom attraction
Wonders of life.... keep the them but would have had to have been rebuilt (we still need a health pavilion though)
wom -some updates but to me this is space ship earth for transportation, a timeless omnimovier
centurium- should still be the gift shop .. more science toys, epcot, and two stories... less mickey
horizons- doesn't matter it fell into a sink hole*
odyssey restraint- should still be running
universe of energy- although I loved it... was too long for todays audience, ellen id remove and go back to the original. But lets be honest in all tour books this was called a great A/c nap otherwise skip
communicore- should still wow you.. and the space given to our most technically advanced companies to keep updated

Add a few extras and honestly it could be doing just fine as it was.

*I know it didn't fall into a sinkhole... I think it would have had to have been updated a lot as far as scenes to make it current as it would be super dated but the ride vehicles and path could stay the same.

 

[Johnny Three-hats]

And I think people are losing a major grasp on humanity because our attention spans have been captured by technology.

We as humans once celebrated being human, but now it seems we celebrate the next best technology. So yeah, I think we've lost touch with just celebrating humanity itself.

I've had thoughts about this kind of thing along the same lines, but with a different lens. I wouldn't know what it was like in the 80s, but I've noticed that people now are apathetic at large. Apathetic to each other, to humanity at large, what have you. Technology just makes it easier to retreat into oneself and not care. I understand that there's so much now demanding that we all care about X, Y, and Z, and that is an exhausting thing, but that shouldn't mean caring about nothing at all. I know I'm guilty of this, but I try to be aware of it and know that it's not always a good way to look at things. I don't have any research to back this up, I wouldn't know entirely why it's the case, and maybe I'm just projecting, but it's a thought.

God, but what I wouldn't give for a proper EPCOT Center update that promotes, in earnest, a sense of optimism and responsibility and looking to the future knowing that we all have the power to change it for the better in some way.

I find it really ironic that Guardians is an IP going into Epcot so carelessly when the first Guardians film promotes, to paraphrase the film, "giving a ****" and realizing that being perpetually cold and apathetic in favor of the now and one's self is no way to live. I don't know anymore, but I know that the demo photos of the UoE fountain saddened me something awful and I wanted to talk.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I've had thoughts about this kind of thing along the same lines, but with a different lens. I wouldn't know what it was like in the 80s, but I've noticed that people now are apathetic at large. Apathetic to each other, to humanity at large, what have you. Technology just makes it easier to retreat into oneself and not care. I understand that there's so much now demanding that we all care about X, Y, and Z, and that is an exhausting thing, but that shouldn't mean caring about nothing at all. I know I'm guilty of this, but I try to be aware of it and know that it's not always a good way to look at things. I don't have any research to back this up, I wouldn't know entirely why it's the case, and maybe I'm just projecting, but it's a thought.

God, but what I wouldn't give for a proper EPCOT Center update that promotes, in earnest, a sense of optimism and responsibility and looking to the future knowing that we all have the power to change it for the better in some way.

I find it really ironic that Guardians is an IP going into Epcot so carelessly when the first Guardians film promotes, to paraphrase the film, "giving a ****" and realizing that being perpetually cold and apathetic in favor of the now and one's self is no way to live. I don't know anymore, but I know that the demo photos of the UoE fountain saddened me something awful and I wanted to talk.

The thing is that when EPCOT Ctr. opened there was a national sense of optimism. It actually existed at the time. We had so much to look forward to it was incredible. And everything we looked forward to was something that we could envision in our heads and see happening. It was an incredible time. We were between heavy duty killing sprees both domestic and far away places. Things were finally where we felt comfortable in helping people less fortunate, projecting and living the American dream. The last few years that has been pulled away in favor of a me, me, me society. There is nothing that can be done that will satisfy everyone, so we just have given up even trying. I am hopeful that this is just another cycle in what we call life and it will let us get to that again. But, a whole lot of attitudes and entitlements have got to be cast to the wayside before that can happen. I am not hopeful that it is going to happen in what is left of my lifetime, but, I do hope that my grandchildren can make it happen. My children certainly haven't. I guess things were to good for them when they were growing up. So here we have my generation that rejected anyone over thirty, now in a position of power and we obviously suck at it. Our children that don't seem to think of anything besides "what's in it for me" and our grandchildren who haven't reached the age yet to be a strength (survivors of school shootings the exception) that can make things happen. It's going to be a bumpy ride. Try and build a theme park around that!