Original Alice in Wonderland Ride

Okee68

Well-Known Member
Not sure how accurate it is but I found this audio recreation of Peter Pan

The editing is very crusty, and the sound of Smee's gunfire nearly made me go deaf, but I appreciate the attempt at recreating the bleed-through of the Hook/Smee dialogue throughout the whole ride.
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
This technically doesn't have anything to do with the pre-1983 California dark rides, but I just found this POV of Tokyo Snow White (the best existing version of the attraction) featuring a ride stop in the Dwarfs' mine.



If you didn't know, the sound effects used in the Tokyo mine scene (the creaking timbers, sparkling gems, and crashing mine cart) were lifted straight from the 1971 WDW ride, and this video actually provides the most perfect uninterrupted sample of those sounds that I've ever heard. The creepy ghoulish wailing in the forest comes from the 1971 ride as well.
 
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VicariousCorpse

Well-Known Member
This technically doesn't have anything to do with the pre-1983 California dark rides, but I just found this POV of Tokyo Snow White (the best existing version of the attraction) featuring a ride stop in the Dwarfs' mine.



If you didn't know, the sound effects used in the Tokyo mine scene (the creaking timbers, sparkling gems, and collapsing beams) were ripped straight from 1971 WDW ride, and this video actually provides the most perfect uninterrupted sample of those sounds that I've ever heard. The creepy ghoulish wailing in the forest comes from the 1971 ride as well.

Well that was terrifying. Just sitting there with the walls creaking and moving and then lurching forward suddenly out of nowhere to see the witch watching in the distance.
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
Snow audio thing.png


I came up with this theoretical audio revamp of pre-1983 Snow White to give more substance to the very bare-bones sound design of the original ride. All of the ride's audio is changed here except for the Witch's dialogue and laughter. Maybe if things had gone a bit differently, this could have actually happened in 1977 or so, when the Fantasyland dark rides were given updated exterior facades and had their characters touched up to appear more on-model.

Each blue circle in the cutaway drawing represents a speaker unit, and the key is as follows:

* Reel is looped continuously
** Reel is trigger-activated

A. Queue audio: "One Song" instrumental overture* (film audio)
B. The Dwarfs' mining song echoes from ahead* (film audio)
C. Creaking timbers deep within the mine*
D. The gentle glistening of precious jewels*
E. The Dwarfs sing as they pick away at ore* (film audio)
F. Songbirds and owls enchant the woodland glade*
G. A stale wind blows*
H. The castle portcullis draws down**
I. Rattling chains and tortured groans warn of evil ahead* (dungeon and lurking shadow vignettes)
J. "GO BA-A-A-A-CK!"**
K. The sickly, echoing laughter of the disguised Queen**
L. The hag cackles sadistically as she produces a poisoned apple**
M. Bubbling brew in the Witch's cauldron*
N. A hellish rumble fills the air* (cauldron and pillar vignettes)
O. "Have an apple, dearie?"**
P. The howling of a violent wind*
Q. An orchestra of ghouls haunts the forest*
R. Maniacal cackling from the crooked crone**
S. Rolling thunder spells imminent doom*
T. Lightning strikes the vile Queen; a shrieking demise** (film audio)
 

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BasiltheBatLord

Well-Known Member
This technically doesn't have anything to do with the pre-1983 California dark rides, but I just found this POV of Tokyo Snow White (the best existing version of the attraction) featuring a ride stop in the Dwarfs' mine.



If you didn't know, the sound effects used in the Tokyo mine scene (the creaking timbers, sparkling gems, and collapsing beams) were ripped straight from 1971 WDW ride, and this video actually provides the most perfect uninterrupted sample of those sounds that I've ever heard. The creepy ghoulish wailing in the forest comes from the 1971 ride as well.

Thanks for this informative post. I've ridden Tokyo's Snow White many, many times and never knew that (and also spent a lot of time sitting in the mines as the ride always backs up there).
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
If you didn't know, the sound effects used in the Tokyo mine scene (the creaking timbers, sparkling gems, and collapsing beams) were ripped straight from 1971 WDW ride, and this video actually provides the most perfect uninterrupted sample of those sounds that I've ever heard. The creepy ghoulish wailing in the forest comes from the 1971 ride as well.

The witch's laugh as she pulls up in her boat is also taken from the 1971 ride, as is many of the props and scenic elements
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Snow White is an anomaly among dark rides at Tokyo Disneyland.

Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan were built as duplicates of the WDW versions, Pinocchio is largely identical to what would open a few months later.

But Snow White is different. They could have built a copy of either the 1971 WDW ride or the 1983 Disneyland ride, but didn't. Instead, it's a mix of both, with a conscious effort to change elements, restage scenes and/or their order. It's interesting that this ride in particular got so much attention.

Pirates is like this too, but it's a more clear cut "this is when the Disneyland version stops and WDW begins". Only the caves and the shoot out at the end got any significant rework.
 

Miru

Well-Known Member
Very early concept illustration for Snow White's Adventures, which I'm sure everyone here has seen before:

View attachment 778435

I'm bringing this up because I find it interesting how this early concept is actually more similar to the later interpretations of the Snow White ride than what was actually made in 1955, with a greater focus on the cheerier aspects of the film, a happy ending, fully dimensional scenery, and Snow White herself appearing in several scenes.

This version of the ride would have required much more time, space, and budget than what was provided, which leads me to believe that the unique characteristics of the 1955 and 1971 rides—the much more pronounced emphasis on the scary aspects of the story and the idea that riders themselves are meant to assume the role of Snow White—were born from those limitations.

Working with ultraviolet fluorescents and small, boxy corridors, it was much more feasible to portray dark, claustrophobic locales such as the castle and the mine than the spacious forest glade and the stunning ending scene. It was also much more feasible to include only a small number of animated figures—all of which are either shrouded in darkness or otherwise subject to dim ultraviolet lighting conditions that hide their imperfections—than to sculpt a large ensemble of figures that would often be subject to much brighter lighting conditions which would have exposed their cruder qualities and made them less believable.

So, while I will personally always prefer those first two versions of the ride, there's certainly something to be said for how the later, happier versions of Snow White's Adventures are ultimately closer to the original, unrestricted vision of the ride than the earlier, unabashedly scary versions.
Yes, this may have also been due to differing culture standards or standards in amusement park design at the time; “theme parks” were very new and thus took cues from what standard amusement parks are doing, resulting in a very different experience. This sort of thing can be seen today in some Cedar Fair/Six Flags parks being an awkward mix of theming and unthemed coasters.
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
From my YouTube upload of the 1972 Snow White recording:

stef1.png


This is an exchange between me (GoatPrince) and a commenter who actually rode the original Snow White. This guy provided a lot of detail as to the ride's audio and suggested that the recording is missing a few things, though it's hard for me to take his word on it. I don't think he's making anything up, but I've listened to the Snow White recording countless times and never been able to comprehend how the interval between the portcullis and the Witch's shadow could have been as long as he claims it was, or hear any kind of seam in the recording that would indicate that some of the ride is missing.

Also, here's the "go back" skeleton video for reference:
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
There's also this comment he posted on one of Benjamin Roberson's Snow White audio videos:

stef2.png


He very clearly remembers the Witch's laugh at the cauldron (where I personally hear a barely audible "Have an apple, dearie?" in the 1972 recording) and her cackling at the cottage door, though the audio he points to (in the Osmonds Haunted Mansion special from 1970, and a 1972 episode of Mouse Factory) is definitely nowhere to be heard in the recording. If I had to guess, I would say the Witch's laughter and dialogue were actually changed at some point between the 1972 recording and the bulk of his memories. It's the only explanation I can think of for the inconsistencies between the recording and his recollection of the ride.

But then again, why would that audio have been used for those TV productions in the early 1970s if they weren't in Snow White at that time? It's all very confusing.

Here's the Haunted Mansion TV special with the Osmonds:
...With the cauldron laugh at 49:27.

And the Mouse Factory episode with Phyllis Diller:
...With the cottage laugh at 1:23.
 
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Okee68

Well-Known Member
I just discovered that the "Have an apple, dearie" that Stefano said he was able to make out at 1:05 in the 1972 recording is not the same "Have an apple, dearie" that I always thought I heard at the cauldron scene at 0:54/0:55. The line I hear at the cauldron is delivered with a subdued demeanor and a lower-pitched voice, but if you listen very closely, you can hear that the one at 1:05—playing for riders one car behind at the cauldron scene assuming no part of the ride is missing from the recording—is identical to the familiar, high-pitched, maniacal versions of the line. It's unmistakable once you hear it.



So as it turns out, there was indeed a high-pitched "Have an apple, dearie" (possibly even the same one used in Forty Pounds of Trouble) in the ride at the time of the 1972 recording, and it just happens that the reel didn't play when it was supposed to. I still think the line was meant to play at the cauldron scene (at least at the time of the recording) as opposed to the pillar, as not only would this match the pace of the recording, but you can in fact hear the squeak of crash doors opening at 1:02, which virtually confirms that the sinister laugh at 1:00 is at the pillar vignette. As for the sound heard at 0:54/0:55 at the cauldron... I have no idea what it could be, really.

My new hypothesis is that the "Have an apple, dearie" line was originally used for the pillar, moved to the cauldron at some point, and then moved back to the pillar. I'm not sure why this would have been the case, but it's fairly plausible considering the confusing inconsistencies between the recording and Stefano's recollection.
 

Parteecia

Well-Known Member
There's also this comment he posted on one of Benjamin Roberson's Snow White audio videos:

View attachment 779556

He very clearly remembers the Witch's laugh at the cauldron (where I personally hear a barely audible "Have an apple, dearie?" in the 1972 recording) and her cackling at the cottage door, though the audio he points to (in the Osmonds Haunted Mansion special from 1970, and a 1972 episode of Mouse Factory) is definitely nowhere to be heard in the recording. If I had to guess, I would say the Witch's laughter and dialogue were actually changed at some point between the 1972 recording and the bulk of his memories. It's the only explanation I can think of for the inconsistencies between the recording and his recollection of the ride.

But then again, why would that audio have been used for those TV productions in the early 1970s if they weren't in Snow White at that time? It's all very confusing.

Here's the Haunted Mansion TV special with the Osmonds:
...With the cauldron laugh at 49:27.

And the Mouse Factory episode with Phyllis Diller:
...With the cottage laugh at 1:23.

For what it's worth, in 1977 my break area was right behind it. "Have an apple, dearie?" Clank! Over and over and over. Said it in my dreams.
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
I remember pillar but on this my memory may be faulty. She would slide forward holding out the apple then clank back.
That's three points for pillar that I've seen now, the "third" being the Ken Anderson illustration of the pillar scene, whose accompanying rhyme explicitly states that the Witch says, "Have an apple, dearie?" at that location.

What do you make of the muffled sound at 0:54 in the recording, and the laugh at 1:00? I've always seen it that these are the cauldron and pillar vignettes respectively due to the pacing of the recording, among other things. Would you agree or say otherwise?
 

Parteecia

Well-Known Member
That's three points for pillar that I've seen now, the "third" being the Ken Anderson illustration of the pillar scene, whose accompanying rhyme explicitly states that the Witch says, "Have an apple, dearie?" at that location.

What do you make of the muffled sound at 0:54 in the recording, and the laugh at 1:00? I've always seen it that these are the cauldron and pillar vignettes respectively due to the pacing of the recording, among other things. Would you agree or say otherwise?
It's different from what I recall. My memory is more of "have an APPLE dearie?" followed by maybe a cackle and the reset clank.
 

Okee68

Well-Known Member
It's different from what I recall. My memory is more of "have an APPLE dearie?" followed by maybe a cackle and the reset clank.
Does this ring any bells?

This is from the little Fantasyland dark ride montage from Forty Pounds of Trouble, and there's certainly a lot of emphasis on the word "apple," as with your recollection. I've never been sure if this was actually used in the ride, but it's now looking more and more likely to me that it was.
 

Parteecia

Well-Known Member
Does this ring any bells?

This is from the little Fantasyland dark ride montage from Forty Pounds of Trouble, and there's certainly a lot of emphasis on the word "apple," as with your recollection. I've never been sure if this was actually used in the ride, but it's now looking more and more likely to me that it was.

It's certainly closer.
 

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