NYT: Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers With Immigrants

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
This has been discussed quite a bit when it first went down....

Here's the link. Also, a PDF Link to the Complaint from Federal Court

From the New York Times...

Even after Leo Perrero was laid off a year ago from his technology job at Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla. — and spent his final months there training a temporary immigrant from India to do his work — he still hoped to find a new position in the vast entertainment company.

But Mr. Perrero discovered that despite his high performance ratings, he and most of the other 250 tech workers Disney dismissed would not be rehired for at least a year, and probably never.

Now he and Dena Moore, another American laid off by Disney at that time, have filed class-action lawsuits in federal court in Tampa against Disney and two global consulting companies, HCL and Cognizant, which brought in foreign workers who replaced them. They claim the companies colluded to break the law by using temporary H-1B visas to bring in immigrant workers, knowing that Americans would be displaced from their jobs.

“I don’t have to be angry or cause drama,” said Ms. Moore, 53, who had worked at Disney for 10 years. “But they are just doing things to save a buck, and it’s making Americans poor.”

Ms. Moore had also trained her replacement. After she was laid off, she applied for more than 150 other jobs at Disney. She did not get one.

The lawsuits by Mr. Perrero and Ms. Moore, who each filed a separate but similar class-action complaint on Monday, represent the first time Americans have gone to federal court to sue both outsourcing companies that imported immigrants and the American company that contracted with those businesses, claiming that they collaborated intentionally to supplant Americans with H-1B workers.

A furor over the layoffs in Orlando last January brought to light many other episodes in which American workers, mainly in technology but also in accounting and administration, said they had lost jobs to foreigners on H-1B visas, and had to train replacements as a condition of their severance. The foreign workers, mostly from India, were provided by outsourcing companies, including the two named in the lawsuits, which havedominated the H-1B visa system, packing the application process to win an outsize share of the quota set by Congress of 85,000 visas each year.

The Labor Department opened investigations of the outsourcing companies — the direct employers of the temporary immigrants — at Disney and at Southern California Edison, a utility that laid off hundreds of American workers in 2014. The investigations are continuing. At least 30 former Disney workers also filed complaints with the federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, claiming that they faced discrimination as American citizens.

The lawsuits by Mr. Perrero and Ms. Moore are based on the rules for H-1B visas, which were designed by Congress to bring foreign workers with special skills into the country. Employers are required to declare to the Department of Labor that hiring foreigners on the visas “will not adversely affect the working conditions of U.S. workers similarly employed.”

“Was I negatively affected?” Ms. Moore asked. “Yeah, I was. I lost my job.”

Sara Blackwell, a lawyer in Sarasota representing the former Disney employees, said the suits charged that the companies lied under oath when they said that no Americans would lose their jobs.

Disney has vigorously denied any violations, saying it requires its contractors to obey all laws. Disney has said all but 95 of the tech workers laid off in Orlando were rehired to other positions or moved on voluntarily. Last year, it canceled 35 layoffs scheduled in other areas of the company.

HCL and Cognizant have said that they carefully comply with United States laws. Cognizant has said that it employs many thousands of Americans in this country, with H-1B workers only a minority of its labor force.

Responding to the frustration of American workers, Congress in December renewed and increased a fee on outsourcing companies that it had allowed to lapse. Larger companies employing many H-1B workers in the United States will pay an extra fee of $4,000 for each new H-1B visa — up from $2,000 — and another $4,000 to move an H-1B immigrant who is already in the country to a new employer.

Senator Bill Nelson of Florida, a Democrat who has been openly critical of Disney’s layoffs, offered a bill to reduce the H-1B quota by 15,000 visas a year to 70,000. The issue came up in the presidential race, as Senator Ted Cruz of Texas, a Republican candidate, introduced a bill with Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, a Republican hard-liner on immigration, to sharply increase the minimum wage for H-1B workers to $110,000 a year, to discourage outsourcing companies from using the workers to lower wages.

The Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, an international association of tech workers, posted an online petition to encourage Americans who were displaced to file complaints with the Justice Department. In a letter to the group in December, Alberto Ruisanchez, a Justice Department lawyer in charge of prosecuting immigration abuses, confirmed that it would be a violation of anti-discrimination laws for an employer, or a contracting firm, to fire workers or hire replacements “because of citizenship or immigration status.”

Mr. Perrero, like many Americans who have lost their jobs, said he was long reluctant to speak out publicly against his former employer. At 42 and with a family to support, he worried that he would not find another job in Orlando, where Disney rules as the largest employer by far. He spoke with The New York Times anonymously in an article in June about the humiliation of training his foreign replacement.

But local recruiters told him that despite the company’s statements, Disney managers said they would avoid rehiring workers who were laid off. Mr. Perrero said he knew of only two workers from the close-knit group of more than 200 who were dismissed who went back to tech jobs at Disney.

Mr. Perrero said he was “part Italian, part English, part Swedish.” He said, “I wholeheartedly believe our country needs to have amazing people come here to build a long-term foundation.” But he said the H-1B program had been abused.

Ms. Moore said that even with strong programming credentials, it was hard for her to start over in her 50s with another company. She has 13 grandchildren, and she confessed that one of the difficult losses was a pass that allowed her to take them to Disney World at no cost.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Let this be a lesson, boys and girls. Be indispensable.

If you fail in that mission, sue 'em.

There are so many reasons for this mass outsourcing of IT personnel. I think most of us have seen it happen at a lot of companies and it seems to be based on consulting from companies like IBM and Cognizant. The H1-B visa program is far more dangerous to US jobs than illegal immigrants. As much as I would hate Disney to be made an example for political hay, but someone has to be.

And for the record, I generally think IT leadership is the biggest reason companies are doing this. US IT leadership has gone down the rabbit hole and is generally created a byzantine bureaucracy (because they don't want to deal with their clients), short sighted, blame shifting and overall difficult to work with. Non-IT executives don't want to deal with the BS anymore so they hire IBM/Cognizant/Accenture and they recommend offshoring to save a buck. In the end the IT org doesn't get better (it gets worse or stays about the same) but at least you are paying less for it.

CIOs really need to do some self reflection and change and CEOs should be forcing a better environment.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
Well, Kevin Mayer seems to be in charge of Disney's Enterprise IT department, and his biography says nothing about him ever serving in an IT role anywhere. He has ZERO experience running an IT organization, and should never be allowed to make IT decisions. He has an MBA and is making decisions based solely on money which is the wrong way to manage IT. He doesn't understand that IT just doesn't work that way, and he never will.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
And for the record, I generally think IT leadership is the biggest reason companies are doing this. US IT leadership has gone down the rabbit hole and is generally created a byzantine bureaucracy (because they don't want to deal with their clients), short sighted, blame shifting and overall difficult to work with. Non-IT executives don't want to deal with the BS anymore so they hire IBM/Cognizant/Accenture and they recommend offshoring to save a buck. In the end the IT org doesn't get better (it gets worse or stays about the same) but at least you are paying less for it.

CIOs really need to do some self reflection and change and CEOs should be forcing a better environment.
IT leadership in large corporations used to be someone who had actually worked in IT, and knew the systems and people. Now they hire the latest MBA, and all that person does it look at the bottom line, and say, guess we need to get rid of these high-priced experienced IT people and save a few bucks. I'm sure the offshore folks with 6 months of experience can do the job just as well. ;)
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
I am mixed on this. I see points on both sides. If I was the person being fired in a similar manner, I know I would be horribly upset by it and would feel like what was done to me was wrong. On the other hand, I would like to know more of Disney's side.

Side note: It is annoying throwing out the term MBA like it is always a bad thing. I know most don't care that I say I think it is annoying but I am saying is anyways... There are great leaders with MBA's and there are great leaders with only a high school diploma...in all industries. Of course, it is what you do with your education that is important, as well as at the same time continue learning even after your formal education has ended.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
I am mixed on this. I see points on both sides. If I was the person being fired in a similar manner, I know I would be horribly upset by it and would feel like what was done to me was wrong. On the other hand, I would like to know more of Disney's side.

Side note: It is annoying throwing out the term MBA like it is always a bad thing. I know most don't care that I say I think it is annoying but I am saying is anyways... There are great leaders with MBA's and there are great leaders with only a high school diploma...in all industries. Of course, it is what you do with your education that is important, as well as at the same time continue learning even after your formal education has ended.
The only reason I brought up MBA is that he has NO IT experience at all, only financial, and that is NO way to manage a global IT department. Yes there are good MBAs, but it seems that all too often, the only thing they look at is the bottom line, with no consideration for how it will affect the business to save a few bucks.

Are you happy with the Disney IT and how their website/software/nextgen/etc. are working????

I have been in IT for over 40 years, and have performed pretty much every single job you can do in IT. What they did was nothing but stupid money cutting to save a few bucks. If you are forced to train your H1B replacement, that is illegal as H1B is ONLY supposed to be used when you cannot find a person here to fill a position, and they were already filled with people. And advertising a senior position for less than half of what it is worth is NOT how it is supposed to work.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
The only reason I brought up MBA is that he has NO IT experience at all, only financial, and that is NO way to manage a global IT department.

I don't know his history but I assume what you are saying is accurate so this is definitely concerning to me.

Yes there are good MBAs, but it seems that all too often, the only thing they look at is the bottom line, with no consideration for how it will affect the business to save a few bucks.

That is a generalization I cannot get on board with.

Are you happy with the Disney IT and how their website/software/nextgen/etc. are working????

Website, no, not always. But I have never had any issues with FP+ or MDE while on property. Although I do understand some have.

What they did was nothing but stupid money cutting to save a few bucks. If you are forced to train your H1B replacement, that is illegal as H1B is ONLY supposed to be used when you cannot find a person here to fill a position, and they were already filled with people.

Do you think this is exclusive to Disney or something? Or this only occurs when a person with no IT experience is running IT? Hardly. I agree that it sucks and I am not always a fan of how it is done. If they determine what Disney did here is illegal, a lot of other companies who have or are doing similar things will be in the same position soon.
 

COProgressFan

Well-Known Member
If you are forced to train your H1B replacement, that is illegal as H1B is ONLY supposed to be used when you cannot find a person here to fill a position, and they were already filled with people.

This is exactly what it comes down to. I'm not sure there is much else to it. And just because Disney hasn't been called out for this yet, doesn't make it right. It also doesn't make it right if other companies have been doing it and gotten away with it (so far). I sense the tide may be turning and being Disney it will be more high profile than other cases.

I don't see how Disney's actions are defensible here.
 

LuvtheGoof

Grill Master
Premium Member
Do you think this is exclusive to Disney or something? Or this only occurs when a person with no IT experience is running IT? Hardly. I agree that it sucks and I am not always a fan of how it is done. If they determine what Disney did here is illegal, a lot of other companies who have or are doing similar things will be in the same position soon.
Oh, it's definitely not exclusive to Disney at all. They are just more public than most, and got caught. The problem they - the plaintiffs - have is that Disney didn't directly replace them with foreign workers. They contracted with another company that has been known to move everything overseas. Of course Disney knew they would do this, but it might be hard to prove it.
 

mikeh

Well-Known Member
As a software developer who has been laid off for Russian and Indian outsourcing, I hope Disney is made an example of and there is a change in this policy. It hurts American workers. I wasn't fired from Disney or made to train my foreign replacements, but I can sympathize with these people who got the boot
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I am mixed on this. I see points on both sides. If I was the person being fired in a similar manner, I know I would be horribly upset by it and would feel like what was done to me was wrong. On the other hand, I would like to know more of Disney's side.

Side note: It is annoying throwing out the term MBA like it is always a bad thing. I know most don't care that I say I think it is annoying but I am saying is anyways... There are great leaders with MBA's and there are great leaders with only a high school diploma...in all industries. Of course, it is what you do with your education that is important, as well as at the same time continue learning even after your formal education has ended.

That should come out in Discovery. But from what I've heard? It isn't good for the mouse....
 

Jimmy Thick

Well-Known Member
Is it a possibility that they just settle so it never goes to court (if that is even possible for a case like this)?

If big corporations were going to "settle" then this article never would have happened because their legal team would have known they would lose and nipped it in the bud long before anything would have been filed. My guess is Disney knows this will probably get thrown out, like it or not.

Its amazing some people actually think these huge companies dont cross their T's or dot their I's.

Jimmy Thick- Well...Maybe not...
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
If you are forced to train your H1B replacement, that is illegal as H1B is ONLY supposed to be used when you cannot find a person here to fill a position, and they were already filled with people.
The loophole that gets used in most of these cases is that the person being trained is not the replacement. Instead they are someone documenting the job so that a person in another country can perform that job.
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
Oh, it's definitely not exclusive to Disney at all. They are just more public than most, and got caught. The problem they - the plaintiffs - have is that Disney didn't directly replace them with foreign workers. They contracted with another company that has been known to move everything overseas. Of course Disney knew they would do this, but it might be hard to prove it.
This is where discovery comes into play. Disney is not out of the woods as they hired the contractor. The contractor is acting as an agent of Disney and, as such, Disney can hold some responsibility.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
The only reason I brought up MBA is that he has NO IT experience at all, only financial, and that is NO way to manage a global IT department. Yes there are good MBAs, but it seems that all too often, the only thing they look at is the bottom line, with no consideration for how it will affect the business to save a few bucks.

Are you happy with the Disney IT and how their website/software/nextgen/etc. are working????

I have been in IT for over 40 years, and have performed pretty much every single job you can do in IT. What they did was nothing but stupid money cutting to save a few bucks. If you are forced to train your H1B replacement, that is illegal as H1B is ONLY supposed to be used when you cannot find a person here to fill a position, and they were already filled with people. And advertising a senior position for less than half of what it is worth is NOT how it is supposed to work.

Unfortunately from what I've seen is that CIOs are still very much IT experienced, they add a ton of bureaucracy in an effort to be Lean or follow ITIl, screw up their ability to serve their clients and then have to throw their team to the outsourcing consultants. (Which are consultants with no IT exp).
 

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