No fastpasses available today?

[71jason]

...unless it works, and Art of Animation is full to capacity in 2 years.

My point--it's great for the hotels if it works. But it's a surprisingly small percentage of guests who stay on-site--the world's largest time share is on 192, with several more town-sized ones off Old Lake Wilson. Then think of all the hotels still left on 192, 535, I-Drive. And still a few days guests from downtown or Daytona (ever been to the parks the weekend of the Capitol One Bowl or the 500?). If off-site guests* think they're getting the smelly end of the plunger, that's one more reason to go elsewhere.

And again, how many on-site guests will learn enough to take advantage of the system? If I'm on a convention staying in a $500/night room, I don't anticipate having to watch a video two months out on how to take advantage of that.

* I'm ignoring APs for now, not sure how that shakes out. My guess is the "lifestylers" learn to game the system better than anyone, while more casual APs end up feeling shunted. Also, this is nothing but bad for the 50,000 or so CMs in the area, many of whom are Disney fans inclined to hang out around the parks and spend at least a little money.

And before we begin blowing the Potter trumpet, let's not forget, Universal's system of offering queue advantages to their resort guests offers an even greater advantage to these guests than FastPassPlus, and predates it.

I meant more for the general business failing of giving your struggling competitor a way back into contention, by letting the most valuable IP in the world slip through your fingers because you can't compromise with the creator's artistic integrity--something your company used to be famous for.. But as for Universal's Express Pass, it's not as blatently obvious as FastPass, mostly because so few people use it. And the original system (basically a carbon copy of Disney's) wasn't around long enough to be ingrained in the public consciousness like FastPass is at this point.

 

[71jason]

Well you know my thoughts, I say scrap all forms of FP and go back to a single, immersive queue. If you want to ride, you wait. Simple as that.

Amen.

 

[rael ramone]

The question about FP-minus is whether it simply redistributes capacity, or if in some way it actually reduces it.

If the 'scanning process' slows down the line considerably, then capacity is reduced.

If (as has been reported) they are actually sticking to their FPminus to standby ratio rigidly and would rather have empty seats in cars then allowing standby passengers upset their precious ratio, then capacity is reduced.

And if the data this program harvests is used to slash operating hours (either by attraction or parkwide) then you better believe capacity is reduced.

In the end I don't think there are winners & losers.... everyone loses, it's just that some lose more than others (and this is true even if it didn't cost 1-3Billion that could have fixed real problems).

 

[IWantMyMagicBand]

It must be nice to not know what you are talking about. On-site guests don't pay more for their ticket media. And there are many off-site hotels that cost more than staying at a Disney Value or Moderate (but are of deluxe-level quality). Universal's resorts include the express pass, but any day guest can purchase the same perk. So if Disney were to make FP+ available only to on-site guests without offering a way for day guests to also receive the perk, then it absolutely is unfair. When you offer something that benefits one group at the expense of another, a system must be in place to equalize that. Otherwise it's a bad business practice.

Nope. Think of an airline. I fly economy. I do not get a drink of glorious bubbles when I get in my seat. I do not get my luggage off first. Even if I wanted to pay for the privilege of bubbles on boarding in economy, it's not possible. If I want it, I have to pay for Premium Economy at the very least. In either case I still get to ride the airplane, I just have a difference experience on the way to the final destination.
At Disneyland Paris, guests at the Disneyland Hotel have unlimited fastpass tickets for their entire stay as well as character breakfast each morning as standard. If I want that FP privilege (and this is where DLRP differs slightly from WDW), I am able to pay 60 euros per person per day, even though I am an onsite guest at a different hotel.

 

[ttasuperskyway]

Quick note on the scanning process to get into FP+ line and capacity reduction:

There is a Mickey head on each side that can be used to get in at both FP checkpoints. The scan takes seconds and isn't much longer than handing the passes to the CM or having to rummage through your things to find your ticket that you just showed at the front of the ride. The only issue I saw, similar to the park entrance and counter service lines, is everyone lining up and only using one scanner. I would come from the other side and use the empty scanner and walk in, bypassing the confused crowd.

 

[msteel]

The supervisor or manager of the attraction is able and permitted to adjust the sign that tells you the standby time at any time they choose to alter guest thinking about going in the attraction or walking by to another attraction with a shorter wait time.

This part has always been true, now FP+ is just another tool to accomplish it.
And, that is why I don't trust Disney's app to tell me where is the best place to go. Because Disney's wait times are - well, let's not go quite so far as to say they are lies, lets say they are - intentionally imprecise. That is why I prefer to rely on Len and his crew because I believe that they are trying to look out for my best interest. Besides the fact that while their recommendations take Disney's data into account, they have independent data of their own as well.

 

[shinymonkey]

It was my experience over the past weekend that they would rather hold the stand by line and wait for more fp then just allow the line to continue to flow which turned a 45 minute posted wait for winnie the pooh into over and hour because they were only sending 10 stand by people through at a time. The wait times for all attractions in the Magic Kingdom were so completely off on Saturday that it was laughable. Haunted Mansion posted 15 minutes but the line was backed all the way up to the river boat ramp

 

[ParentsOf4]

From a industrial engineering perspective it seems to be a resounding success as @draybook is noting the rides that never had a line, are starting to load balance the crowds - just as was the goal of MM+.

Please remember that FP+ neither increased or decreases ride capacity. It simply changes how capacity is distributed.

@draybook reported longer Standby lines at Pirates and Haunted Mansion. This is not evidence of load balancing. The same number of guests are riding these as did in the past. Those attractions tend to run at capacity but Standby lines used to be short because these attractions were efficient at handling crowds.

Longer Standby lines for these attractions simply indicate that some are waiting less, causing others to wait more.

Load balancing would occur if, for example, FP+ encouraged additional guests to experience Hall of the Presidents, which usually has excess capacity even on busy days. Certainly, Disney would like this to happen and will try to use FP+ to manipulate guest behavior so this does happen, but what @draybook reported is not evidence of this actually happening.

 

[ABQ]

.... The only issue I saw, similar to the park entrance and counter service lines, is everyone lining up and only using one scanner. I would come from the other side and use the empty scanner and walk in, bypassing the confused crowd.

Don't you love the look of amazement by the sheep all standing in one line?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Within two year FP+ will be an add on just like park hopper, you will have to pay for it. That may take care of the problem right there. Kings Island here in Cincinnati has a Fast Lane pass that is an extra cost and the published numbers are only about 15% of attendees purchase that program.

Currently, there are no plans to charge for FP+. Instead, the strategic goal is for FP+ to replace EMH as the preferred onsite perk. EMH are expensive for Disney and don't generate much additional revenue. FP+ during normal park hours are much less expensive for Disney to operate.

Onsite guests will having a FP+ booking advantage. Currently, they can book at 60 days plus 10 days from the start of the stay. At best, offsite guests will be able to book no more than 60 days in advance.

 

[asianway]

Please remember that FP+ neither increased or decreases ride capacity. It simply changes how capacity is distributed.

@draybook reported longer Standby lines at Pirates and Haunted Mansion. This is not evidence of load balancing. The same number of guests are riding these as did in the past. Those attractions tend to run at capacity but Standby lines used to be short because these attractions were efficient at handling crowds.

Longer Standby lines for these attractions simply indicate that some are waiting less, causing others to wait more.

Load balancing would occur if, for example, FP+ encouraged additional guests to experience Hall of the Presidents, which usually has excess capacity even on busy days. Certainly, Disney would like this to happen and will try to use FP+ to manipulate guest behavior so this does happen, but what @draybook reported is not evidence of this actually happening.

The offset has to be somewhere - either in the standby waits at headliners or they simply found that many new guests. I doubt they are in shops?

 

[flynnibus]

Confirmed by my sources.

What... you mean all the people leaping to assuming the apocalypse was upon us and that evil FP+ took all my FPs was premature??

Unfathomable!!

I just had to hold my tongue reading the thread before... all those people so willing to jump off the cliff when they had nothing but their fears to push them.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The offset has to be somewhere - either in the standby waits at headliners or they simply found that many new guests. I doubt they are in shops?

Right. What a preferred queue (i.e. FP) does is redistribute wait time.

Using a simplistic example (i.e. ignoring human behavior), let's assume there is a single line and that everyone in that line waits 10 minutes.

Now let's assume a second FP line is created and that capacity is split 50/50 between the two lines. Theoretically, people in the FP line might end up waiting 5 minutes while those in the Standby line might wait 15 minutes.

The point is, total wait time does not change. Only how that wait time is distributed. (Again, I'm intentionally trying to keep this simple. Human behavior changes the actual outcome.)

Crowd levels might be the same but the Standby line at HM or Pirates might be longer because those in the FP line are being allowed to "cut" ahead of those in the Standby line. Some get to wait less while others are forced to wait more.

 

[Tom 55]

A friend of mine is currently at WDW with his family and just posted that there are no (paper) fastpasses available for Toy Story Mania, Soarin' or Test Track. He said that they are currently unable to add the rides to their magic band accounts and that there is quite a crowd of very unhappy people gathering in front of TSM. Anybody know what's going on today? Is this a sign of things to come?

Looking online at WDW lines all 3 of those attraction list fast pass as gone for the day. So it has nothing to do with the magic bands just high demand.

 

[prberk]

Well you know my thoughts, I say scrap all forms of FP and go back to a single, immersive queue. If you want to ride, you wait. Simple as that.

I guess I just think that, although FP was a nice perk for planning a few big rides in the park, this new level of required planning and inflexibility (especially given the unpredictability of WDW transportation and dinner waits), has made something nice into rediculous for what is supposed to be a nice, family vacation; and the exhorbitant price of it all has really made this even more evident.

It should be fun and interesting, with immersive experiences; not slave to our cell phones and plans we made last week. What's interesting and fun about that? And what about new experiences? Do we have time to linger if we find something new to us more interesting or time-consuming than we knew? Because, you know, we have credit-card-guaranteed reservations at that same restaurant from last year scheduled in an hour across the park, and they will charge us $10 per person for cancelling if we decide to try this new place instead. Not to mention the FP+ reservation for Space that we made last week for today, before I knew I would discover this new thing that has attracted my attention...

Anyway, it is not just FP+, it is the constant tightening and tinkering (like the credit card guarantees and micromanaging hotel rates so that it's nearly impossible for a normal person to find a good "off season" rate that they can do) that has, in the last 10 years, taken something that everyone could enjoy but had "special" niceties (like FP and preferred seating -- not reservations) that a Disney fan could use to make it a little extra special; and now transformed it into a rediculously expensive "vacation" that requires much more planning than it should... and punishes you for taking time to smell the roses and enjoy the details that Disney is famous for.

Stop paying attention to those hidden Mickeys or the Christmas decorations! You have a reservation that you are going to be penalized for missing!! Never mind that you are a first-time guest and never really knew about these things before. You have to stick with the plan. Get moving young man!

Sad.

 

[devoy1701]

It must be nice to not know what you are talking about. On-site guests don't pay more for their ticket media. And there are many off-site hotels that cost more than staying at a Disney Value or Moderate (but are of deluxe-level quality). Universal's resorts include the express pass, but any day guest can purchase the same perk. So if Disney were to make FP+ available only to on-site guests without offering a way for day guests to also receive the perk, then it absolutely is unfair. When you offer something that benefits one group at the expense of another, a system must be in place to equalize that. Otherwise it's a bad business practice.

It's not bad business practice...it's normal business practice.

No problem with giving an extra perk to people who are staying on property with you. That would be a true perk to staying on site and something that actually puts value to the premium that you pay to stay onsite (though I'm sure if this move happened, it would be paired with a hotel rate price hike).

Sucks that it used to be free for everyone, but it certainly does make business sense. Why give something away for free when you can make money off of it?

 

[SportsGoofy]

They were out FPs for my bus back to the resort...had to walk.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

At the risk of being burned at the stake - what's wrong with rewarding on-site guests?
I came last year and will be going next year. We stay at OKW as non-dvc. Our hotel and tickets cost nearly $11k, for 6 of us, that's before flights and food, so straight away Disney is getting on average $5.5k per year from us, more than Premium APs for all of us would.
The disadvantages to staying truly onsite are:
- We are unable to take a picnic in the park unless we buy it from our onsite shop, Disney gets our money.
- We are unable to drop-in to special events, such as the Villains night, or a Limited Time Magic.
- We are stuck if a bad weather system comes in, we can't come back in a couple of weeks when it clears.
- We don't get 10% off merchandise like APs, and we spend ALOT on souvenirs.
- Those lucky enough to live near the magic can just dip in when they want. Opening of SDMT? You can be there is it's announced a week before. I can't and have to plan my time wisely for when I'm there.

Disney is the only park I know that offers free FP. We are AP holders for the Merlin Group (Lego land, Chessington, Alton Towers). We don't get EMH or FOTL like those that stay in the park hotels. Do I mind? No, because I can come back when it's less busy, take my own food etc etc. I could pay for FOTL if I wanted it that badly.

My dad has a 3 bed at Bahama Bay in Davenport. Do we stay there? No, because it's inconvenient for doing a Disney holiday, and after reading this thread it has cemented my idea that staying onsite is better for us.

We will take 2 days out of the bubble to hit Uni, and I will be paying for their express passes as I want to do everything. We'll probably take a CS meal with us as a picnic - Disney gets our money.

It's not rocket science that those who spend more, get more. I need to spend a heck of a lot more on my Harrods Card or Amex Card to get the next level of benefit.

I disagree with the spend more, get more. Thus I hope they don't create a tier program, allowing more fastpasses for those staying deluxe vs moderate or value. But I can easily see this as a perk for resort guest.

 

[rael ramone]

It's not bad business practice...it's normal business practice.

No problem with giving an extra perk to people who are staying on property with you. That would be a true perk to staying on site and something that actually puts value to the premium that you pay to stay onsite (though I'm sure if this move happened, it would be paired with a hotel rate price hike).

Sucks that it used to be free for everyone, but it certainly does make business sense. Why give something away for free when you can make money off of it?

They need to make staying on property more appealing without making the prices reasonable or maintaining the resorts properly.

 

[Padraig]

I was about to respond to devoy1701 when it hit me, the business strategy that could revolutionize park going.... Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Fremium Disney.

Just like the old book system but better. Free entry to the park and charge for every little thing that a person could possibly do. And I mean everything. Imagine M&G at 20 bucks a pop, you want a photo with that another 10. Of course, you won't be using your own camera because just like the Sistine Chapel, no cameras would be allowed and all you memories will be recorded by park photographers. E Tickets 30 dollars, A tickets 5 dollars, Journey into Imagination gratis. Of course, it's probably forbidden to charge for restrooms, so all future development will be less tangled restroom and more like Post Metallica stadium show toilet. Enjoy..

Sadly, it isn't too much of a jump from reality. Anyway, PM me Bob and we'll discuss my renumeration.