New Seven Seas Lagoon Resort

Sam Magic

Well-Known Member
Well...not to be blunt but that has been their core for along time...especially Florida.

What gets me about the “luxury” nonsense - in fact somebody did it today - is that it’s not their clientele.

There’s an apologist myth (just excuses for price increases because they don’t want to outwardly support the problem) that your average “Disney joe”
Says: “hmmm...should we go out to our place on the vineyard this weekend, or go play shinnecock in the hamptons? ...or take JetBlue down to buy a $600 contemporary room and wait on the curb on Main Street for 2 hours before the fireworks?”

It’s laughable. Wdw is not a “luxury” destination. It’s character buffets and chicken fingers. Their clientele has always been “rough around the edges” new money and hard working middle class.

They’ve declared war on one group...the other’s day is coming
This a thousand bloody times.

Real money isn't gonna spend money going to a "Spanish inspired resort" in central Florida when they can afford to go to actual Spain for a month and stay in an apartment along the Spanish coastline. Let's be real. I can guarantee you Bob Iger and his friends would chose real Spain over Grand Destino any day. Probably not Venice though, far too touristy...too much like Disneyland (well not these days at least)--I.E. the Iger's of America look down on Disney as lowbrow. These people stop going to European cities the moment they become "too much like Disneyland" (a real genuine quote that's thrown around a lot by wealthier Americans).

Disney isn't trying to appeal to them because they're too narrow a group and too turned off by the entire idea/concept of Disney Parks and Resorts. So this idea that Disney is somehow trying to attract them is horse-wash. They're just trying to attract new money that wants to show off. For the average American family a Disney vacation is a very expensive trip. New money wants to showoff by exploiting symbols of wealth as they are perceived by average Americans not as they are perceived by uber wealthy Americans. Disney World makes that possible because it offers something that most American view as exclusive and expensive, but to the Iger's of the world looks like kitsch.
 

Creathir

Well-Known Member
This a thousand bloody times.

Real money isn't gonna spend money going to a "Spanish inspired resort" in central Florida when they can afford to go to actual Spain for a month and stay in an apartment along the Spanish coastline. Let's be real. I can guarantee you Bob Iger and his friends would chose real Spain over Grand Destino any day. Probably not Venice though, far too touristy...too much like Disneyland (well not these days at least)--I.E. the Iger's of America look down on Disney as lowbrow. These people stop going to European cities the moment they become "too much like Disneyland" (a real genuine quote that's thrown around a lot by wealthier Americans).

Disney isn't trying to appeal to them because they're too narrow a group and too turned off by the entire idea/concept of Disney Parks and Resorts. So this idea that Disney is somehow trying to attract them is horse-wash. They're just trying to attract new money that wants to show off. For the average American family a Disney vacation is a very expensive trip. New money wants to showoff by exploiting symbols of wealth as they are perceived by average Americans not as they are perceived by uber wealthy Americans. Disney World makes that possible because it offers something that most American view as exclusive and expensive, but to the Iger's of the world looks like kitsch.
You nailed it.

Honestly a look at the Disney Springs retail stores should show you exactly who they are targeting, upper middle class / lower upper class Americans.

Everyone else is just cake for them. (sadly)

I love the place. I truly do. But it really is getting out of hand in the expense.
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
You nailed it.

Honestly a look at the Disney Springs retail stores should show you exactly who they are targeting, upper middle class / lower upper class Americans.

Everyone else is just cake for them. (sadly)

I love the place. I truly do. But it really is getting out of hand in the expense.

i agree but i genuinely find it laughable. the parks themselves are not at some standard to match. i don't think the people who want that generic like every other marriot look want to go to the parks. compared to other locals the parks are an awful deal.
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
This a thousand bloody times.

Real money isn't gonna spend money going to a "Spanish inspired resort" in central Florida when they can afford to go to actual Spain for a month and stay in an apartment along the Spanish coastline. Let's be real. I can guarantee you Bob Iger and his friends would chose real Spain over Grand Destino any day. Probably not Venice though, far too touristy...too much like Disneyland (well not these days at least)--I.E. the Iger's of America look down on Disney as lowbrow. These people stop going to European cities the moment they become "too much like Disneyland" (a real genuine quote that's thrown around a lot by wealthier Americans).

Disney isn't trying to appeal to them because they're too narrow a group and too turned off by the entire idea/concept of Disney Parks and Resorts. So this idea that Disney is somehow trying to attract them is horse-wash. They're just trying to attract new money that wants to show off. For the average American family a Disney vacation is a very expensive trip. New money wants to showoff by exploiting symbols of wealth as they are perceived by average Americans not as they are perceived by uber wealthy Americans. Disney World makes that possible because it offers something that most American view as exclusive and expensive, but to the Iger's of the world looks like kitsch.
You nailed it.

Honestly a look at the Disney Springs retail stores should show you exactly who they are targeting, upper middle class / lower upper class Americans.

Everyone else is just cake for them. (sadly)

I love the place. I truly do. But it really is getting out of hand in the expense.

Speak of the devil: here’s a Bloomberg story about how to vacation in luxury. Of course theme parks aren’t anywhere on this list.


Edit: idk why the link asks about being a robot; the story is about luxury resorts.

Everything we’re saying here is anecdotal, and I’ll add to it. Where I work, the average salary is 6 figures. We travel around the world and stay in many hotels. My coworkers know I once worked for Disney, and “vacations” have come up several times at lunch.

My coworkers — Disney’s prize demo — go to WDW about twice a decade and stay either off-property or in a value/moderate hotel because they can’t justify the “outrageous” deluxe rates. These are people who often stay at Hyatt Regencies, Omnis, Ritz-Carltons, Four Seasons, Swissotels, and Hiltons. That’s a large range of upper-middle-class to high-end hotels, but many are less expensive than Disney hotels and offer much more “resort” bang for the buck. They feel like upscale properties, as opposed to everything Disney has stripped from its deluxe resorts.

— Except I’ve pointed out those normal hotels don’t have extensive landscaping, free transportation, and proximity to theme parks. And depending on the city, those hotels aren’t significantly less expensive. My co-workers’ answer: “But who wants to always be trapped at a crowded theme park?”

They go to real Europe, real Canada, real Napa.

That’s the battle Disney is fighting. Whether they like it or not, their bread-and-butter demographic is solidly middle-class. Their attempts to offer higher-class experiences make them look clumsy: add upcharge events, add upcharge dessert parties at those events, add FP+ reservations to club rooms at hotels where regular rooms are over $400/night. With few exceptions — mostly celebrities — wealthy people are careful with their money and look for the cost/quality value. When Disney is already expensive, the upcharges look unnecessarily greedy.

And we’re talking about people who actually go to theme parks in the first place. If someone has a stressful career, a crowded theme park is the least ideal place for a vacation. Joe Public doesn’t appreciate theme park design like we do on these boards. I’ve heard people who’ve been to WDW many times still confuse what’s at Disney versus Universal.

So back on-topic, to the new lagoon resort. I hope it’s actually built. I also hope Disney resists the urge to keep jacking up rates while nickel-and-diming its trapped guests. And I hope the resort fits thematically, stylistically, and proportionally into classic Seven Seas Lagoon architecture.

Edit: I checked room rates at a random time during value season. The Four Seasons LBV starts at $535/night; the Grand Flo starts at $641. It’s not a huge difference, but it’s also priced for WDW. It’s worth pointing out the deluxe rates rose to compensate for the 35% bounce-back discounts Disney used to offer. Now the market is just overpriced.
 
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pdude81

Well-Known Member
image.jpg
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Speak of the devil: here’s a Bloomberg story about how to vacation in luxury. Of course theme parks aren’t anywhere on this list.


Edit: idk why the link asks about being a robot; the story is about luxury resorts.

Everything we’re saying here is anecdotal, and I’ll add to it. Where I work, the average salary is 6 figures. We travel around the world and stay in many hotels. My coworkers know I once worked for Disney, and “vacations” have come up several times at lunch.

My coworkers — Disney’s prize demo — go to WDW about twice a decade and stay either off-property or in a value/moderate hotel because they can’t justify the “outrageous” deluxe rates. These are people who often stay at Hyatt Regencies, Omnis, Ritz-Carltons, Four Seasons, Swissotels, and Hiltons. That’s a large range of upper-middle-class to high-end hotels, but many are less expensive than Disney hotels and offer much more “resort” bang for the buck. They feel like upscale properties, as opposed to everything Disney has stripped from its deluxe resorts.

— Except I’ve pointed out those normal hotels don’t have extensive landscaping, free transportation, and proximity to theme parks. And depending on the city, those hotels aren’t significantly less expensive. My co-workers’ answer: “But who wants to always be trapped at a crowded theme park?”

They go to real Europe, real Canada, real Napa.

That’s the battle Disney is fighting. Whether they like it or not, their bread-and-butter demographic is solidly middle-class. Their attempts to offer higher-class experiences make them look clumsy: add upcharge events, add upcharge dessert parties at those events, add FP+ reservations to club rooms at hotels where regular rooms are over $400/night. With few exceptions — mostly celebrities — wealthy people are careful with their money and look for the cost/quality value. When Disney is already expensive, the upcharges look unnecessarily greedy.

And we’re talking about people who actually go to theme parks in the first place. If someone has a stressful career, a crowded theme park is the least ideal place for a vacation. Joe Public doesn’t appreciate theme park design like we do on these boards. I’ve heard people who’ve been to WDW many times still confuse what’s at Disney versus Universal.

So back on-topic, to the new lagoon resort. I hope it’s actually built. I also hope Disney resists the urge to keep jacking up rates while nickel-and-diming its trapped guests. And I hope the resort fits thematically, stylistically, and proportionally into classic Seven Seas Lagoon architecture.

Edit: I checked room rates at a random time during value season. The Four Seasons LBV starts at $535/night; the Grand Flo starts at $641. It’s not a huge difference, but it’s also priced for WDW. It’s worth pointing out the deluxe rates rose to compensate for the 35% bounce-back discounts Disney used to offer. Now the market is just overpriced.
I've very much enjoyed the discussion in this thread, as it's exactly what I've been thinking about this ridiculous notion that Disney is targeting high-end consumers. That demographic may show up once or twice in their life to culturally slum it with the rest of us, but on the whole Disney World is the last place on earth they want to be.

What is surprising to me, though, is how many people Disney is still finding who will pay the outrageous amounts they are charging for a vacation at WDW. I can afford Disney vacations and obviously love Disney theme parks, but I have to say that when it comes to planning vacations (right now I'm on one in Colombia) I'm not thinking about WDW these days as I feel stupid paying what Disney charges to have something approximating I consider a comfortable, relaxing vacation. At Disney, the cost for that is basically the cost of multiple vacations elsewhere.

Yet, people keep filling the hotel rooms and the parks...
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
God Twitter is insufferable.
I won’t go near it. It makes Facebook look like saints.

Breck and Anders were known to be fished out of the occasional “deluxe” pool after all night business meetings with Jose Cuervo...as an anecdotal aside.
Maybe he didn’t read it long enough to realize the article criticizes his dad for starting out with good intentions, then overdoing the architecture...


Overdoing is far preferable to underdoing it to save on future renovation costs and to potentially outsource down the road
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
I can afford to visit most places in the world (and I've visited most of the destinations that interest me), but I go to Disney World every few years simply because I enjoy it. It has nothing to do with status.
Yet there are people here who are just like you, but would rather spend $600/night for a deluxe room and scoff at having to “spend more” to travel outside the country.
 

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