News New Play Pavilion to replace Epcot's Wonders of Life

[UNCgolf]

Exactly. Regardless of whether one liked this idea, not having it is bad for everyone.

And even if it had been built as planned, there would still have been the former theater and ride footprints that could have been utilized for something "more" or "better" in the pavilion in the future. It's not like the main floor and activities of WoL were anything groundbreaking.

As explained above, it isn't.

It is in the short-term (anything not being used is bad in the short-term), but isn't in the long-term, unless they continue to leave it unused for another decade (which is admittedly a possibility, unfortunately).

It would be hard for them to come up with a worse use for it than the Play! Pavilion, and EPCOT has enough capacity that it isn't desperately needed right now the way it would be at DHS or DAK.

Building something bad just to have additional capacity isn't a good thing, especially because of how it blocks that space for future development. It also wouldn't be good if they threw up a carnival ferris wheel in the middle of DHS (I guess that would at least be more easily moved/temporary).

 

[Disstevefan1]

I was thinking. So the life pavilion needed roof work in any event. Disney folds the roof work into the play project the cancels the play project and all the work is a write off and the roof is fixed for when/if they ever decide to do anything with the pavilion.

And while it sits there unused, is that a tax savings since it’s not a space used by guests in the park?

I am seeing that, instead of building and growing, lately, Disney loves that tax write off stuff. Maybe the pandemic taught them some new tax tricks?

 

[doctornick]

As explained above, it isn't.

It is in the short-term (anything not being used is bad in the short-term), but isn't in the long-term, unless they continue to leave it unused for another decade (which is admittedly a possibility, unfortunately).

It would be hard for them to come up with a worse use for it than the Play! Pavilion, and EPCOT has enough capacity that it isn't desperately needed right now the way it would be at DHS or DAK.

Building something bad just to have additional capacity isn't a good thing, especially because of how it blocks that space for future development. It also wouldn't be good if they threw up a carnival ferris wheel in the middle of DHS (I guess that would at least be more easily moved/temporary).

There is zero reason to think that anything "better" would come to the WoL space anytime soon. Cancelling this means nothing going there for a long time, not something good going there.

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion. Play! would not have been an impediment for doing additional stuff in the pavilion that you or others could have found more satisfying. And as I said, the previous stuff on the floor of WoL like the Wonder Cycles or Goofy about Health weren't exactly some groundbreaking pinnacle of Imagineering - Play! was essentially going to be replacing that function as smaller diversions. Which is something that part of the park could really use to compliment all the thrill rides.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

 

[aladdin2007]

There is zero reason to think that anything "better" would come to the WoL space anytime soon. Cancelling this means nothing going there for a long time, not something good going there.

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion. Play! would not have been an impediment for doing additional stuff in the pavilion that you or others could have found more satisfying. And as I said, the previous stuff on the floor of WoL like the Wonder Cycles or Goofy about Health weren't exactly some groundbreaking pinnacle of Imagineering - Play! was essentially going to be replacing that function as smaller diversions. Which is something that part of the park could really use to compliment all the thrill rides.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

This, which they are more than happy with, to not pay more operating expense and more cast.

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion.

The Making of Me theatre was demolished. You could theoretically put a new one there I guess, but there’s no bones to put something else into. Cranium Command’s theatre was gutted, but it’s at least largely there structurally should they ever decide to install a new show.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

For one, no it really wasn’t. For two, Innoventions West being a loss for the park has nothing to do with what was in it and everything to with the building structurally. They weren’t going to install new Innoventions exhibits in there either way.

 

[mightynine]

Maybe we'll get a return of the seasonal attraction "Wonders Of Roof Painting".

 

[doctornick]

For one, no it really wasn’t. For two, Innoventions West being a loss for the park has nothing to do with what was in it and everything to with the building structurally. They weren’t going to install new Innoventions exhibits in there either way.

You don't think that stuff like The Great Piggy Bank Adventure or Where's the Fire? was in line with what they had planned for the Play! pavilion?

I get that people liked the symmetry of the two Innovention buildings and I suppose the potential to use the space for something "better" (seems like a pipe dream to me though), but in terms of content it seems odd to slam Play! when it's the same kind of stuff that Innoventions West had for years.

 

[UNCgolf]

There is zero reason to think that anything "better" would come to the WoL space anytime soon. Cancelling this means nothing going there for a long time, not something good going there.

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion. Play! would not have been an impediment for doing additional stuff in the pavilion that you or others could have found more satisfying. And as I said, the previous stuff on the floor of WoL like the Wonder Cycles or Goofy about Health weren't exactly some groundbreaking pinnacle of Imagineering - Play! was essentially going to be replacing that function as smaller diversions. Which is something that part of the park could really use to compliment all the thrill rides.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

We don't know that.

It's certainly possible nothing goes in there for a long time (and it wouldn't surprise me, as I mentioned), but the Play! Pavilion sounded like a complete waste of space that was potentially going to be outdated by the time it opened. Building garbage doesn't improve the park. I have a feeling Disney realized this (that it was going to be outdated at opening) and that's one of the reasons it was cancelled.

Also, if they did eventually add attractions to the Play! Pavilion, they would have needed to fit the pavilion's "theme" to not feel wildly incongruous. That means they'd likely have been terrible attractions, since the pavilion itself was a terrible idea.

As for Innoventions -- the loss there is the building; not the specific exhibits that were previously inside it. The building could have been used for anything.

Again, adding capacity isn't inherently good no matter what. If it was, no one would care about putting Zootopia in Animal Kingdom, or if they decided to build a Wall-E ride on Main Street USA. I don't think it's a good idea or helpful for Disney to spend money on wasted space.

 

[DisneyDodo]

We don't know that.

It's certainly possible nothing goes in there for a long time (and it wouldn't surprise me, as I mentioned), but the Play! Pavilion sounded like a complete waste of space that was potentially going to be outdated by the time it opened. Building garbage doesn't improve the park. I have a feeling Disney realized this (that it was going to be outdated at opening) and that's one of the reasons it was cancelled.

Also, if they did eventually add attractions to the Play! Pavilion, they would have needed to fit the pavilion's "theme" to not feel wildly incongruous. That means they'd likely have been terrible attractions, since the pavilion itself was a terrible idea.

As for Innoventions -- the loss there is the building; not the specific exhibits that were previously inside it. The building could have been used for anything.

Again, adding capacity isn't inherently good no matter what. If it was, no one would care about putting Zootopia in Animal Kingdom, or if they decided to build a Wall-E ride on Main Street USA. I don't think it's a good idea or helpful for Disney to spend money on wasted space.

It’s “wasted space” because you personally didn’t like it? From the little bit we were told, it definitely sounded like something my kids would’ve enjoyed. It could have served as a nice place for little kids to run around and play while their older siblings rode GotG, MS, or TT. And if it didn’t appeal to you (you likely weren’t the target audience), it at least could have occupied some other people who would have otherwise been standing in front of you in line for something else, so you still would have won.

I agree that it wasn’t going to be some groundbreaking E-ticket, but it certainly would not have been worse than nothing. And that’s the only thing we should be comparing it to. They didn’t rip out WoL to make room for this. That building has sat basically unused for 17 years now! There hasn’t even been much in the ways of rumors of new projects close to being green lit beyond this. Realistically, the options were PLAY! or nothing and it seems we’ll be saddled with the latter for the foreseeable future.

 

[UNCgolf]

It’s “wasted space” because you personally didn’t like it? From the little bit we were told, it definitely sounded like something my kids would’ve enjoyed. It could have served as a nice place for little kids to run around and play while their older siblings rode GotG, MS, or TT. And if it didn’t appeal to you (you likely weren’t the target audience), it at least could have occupied some other people who would have otherwise been standing in front of you in line for something else, so you still would have won.

I agree that it wasn’t going to be some groundbreaking E-ticket, but it certainly would not have been worse than nothing. And that’s the only thing we should be comparing it to. They didn’t rip out WoL to make room for this. That building has sat basically unused for 17 years now! There hasn’t even been much in the ways of rumors of new projects close to being green lit beyond this. Realistically, the options were PLAY! or nothing and it seems we’ll be saddled with the latter for the foreseeable future.

Not because I personally didn't like it -- because it sounded like something that was going to get very little use. That's a waste of space of an entire pavilion. As I said, it was probably going to be outdated very soon after opening, if not at opening.

I don't personally like TRON, but that doesn't make it a waste of space because it actually does get significant use and will continue to for the foreseeable future.

The "worse than nothing" thing completely misses the point. The issue isn't the Play! Pavilion versus nothing; it's the Play! Pavilion versus an actual adequate use of the space. As I said above, if it was truly about just building something for people to do no matter how good it is or how it affects the park's future, Disney should just be tossing in carnival rides. Kids would happily go ride those as well.

I'm repeating myself yet again, but a Play! Pavilion that would be open now and then shut down for replacement/reworking in a few years would be fine. A Play! Pavilion that's outdated near opening and would exist as-is for 15+ years is not remotely a good use of space or development funds, and with Disney's track record that's almost certainly what would happen. It would be another Imagination sitting there.

The only bad thing, which I have acknowledged, is that there's absolutely a decent chance that Disney now just leaves it vacant for another decade. If that is what happens, then yes, the Play! Pavilion would be better.

 

[Bocabear]

There is zero reason to think that anything "better" would come to the WoL space anytime soon. Cancelling this means nothing going there for a long time, not something good going there.

And, again, regardless of whether anyone cares about the stuff that was going to comprise Play!, there still would have been the former Body Wars footprint as well as the Cranium Command and Making of Me theaters that could be used for something more - if Disney was inclined to invest real substantial money in the pavilion. Play! would not have been an impediment for doing additional stuff in the pavilion that you or others could have found more satisfying. And as I said, the previous stuff on the floor of WoL like the Wonder Cycles or Goofy about Health weren't exactly some groundbreaking pinnacle of Imagineering - Play! was essentially going to be replacing that function as smaller diversions. Which is something that part of the park could really use to compliment all the thrill rides.

I also find it funny that people bemoan the loss of Innoventions West when the stuff featured there was of the same type of level as what was planned for Play!

ok, first, All of the Thrill Rides?.... we have GOTG, Test Track, and maybe Frozen Ever After...sort of? Aside from the first two, there really are no other "Thrill Rides"...so I doubt people need something as a compliment from two attractions in an entire park...
I agree the little diversions were always a good thing... Which was exactly what Innoventions brought to the table... Their lack of developments and updates does not mean that the idea behind innoventions was bad...
WOL offered a neatly balanced package with a thrill ride, smaller diversions, two shows and even food options.
The fact that they cannot come up with a concept to create another balanced pavilion utilizing this spectacular building is more proof that they don't want to... and we all suffer from having less to do in the park with a much higher ticket price.

 

[doctornick]

ok, first, All of the Thrill Rides?.... we have GOTG, Test Track, and maybe Frozen Ever After...sort of? Aside from the first two, there really are no other "Thrill Rides"...so I doubt people need something as a compliment from two attractions in an entire park...

Cosmic Rewind, Test Track and Mission: Space are the rides surrounding WoL and all have height requirements and some degree of thrill. I’m saying that Play! would have been a compliment to those rides in that area of the park, not that Epcot as a whole needed such stuff (I realize I was not clear)

 

[marni1971]

For one, no it really wasn’t. For two, Innoventions West being a loss for the park has nothing to do with what was in it and everything to with the building structurally.

Nothing was wrong structurally

 

[UNCgolf]

Nothing was wrong structurally

I think he was saying losing the structure itself was bad for the park (as opposed to what was inside it at closure) rather than saying there was something wrong with the building.

 

[marni1971]

I think he was saying losing the structure itself was bad for the park (as opposed to what was inside it at closure) rather than saying there was something wrong with the building.

My bad

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

My bad

If it helps, I also misread it at first and immediately flashed back to a certain notorious someone's repeated and incorrect assertions that the building had structural problems.

Can't help but notice we haven't seen that guy around here for a while . . .

 

[DreamfinderGuy]

You don't think that stuff like The Great Piggy Bank Adventure or Where's the Fire? was in line with what they had planned for the Play! pavilion?

I guess if you want to make the common link of interactive game attractions, sure. But that's not all that was planned for Play, and likewise Innoventions wasn't solely for little kids (though it certainly skewed that way in its later years)

I think he was saying losing the structure itself was bad for the park (as opposed to what was inside it at closure) rather than saying there was something wrong with the building.

Yeah that's what I meant. Nobody cared what was inside the building, it was the building itself that mattered.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

I think he was saying losing the structure itself was bad for the park (as opposed to what was inside it at closure) rather than saying there was something wrong with the building.

Wasn't the biggest complaint that it smelled like garbage of the sort? IMO I never smelled anything as bad as Starbucks by Fountainview but, that's just me..

 

[tpoly88]

I had a lot of mixed emotions about it, but as a whole pretty much anything would be a net positive over continuing to leave the building empty. Making everything in Future World East a thrill ride has killed that whole section of the park for lots of families, making Wonders the kids area would have helped at least. It did waste lots of space in the pavilion, but there's nothing saying future developments couldn't have gone into the Body Wars/Cranium sections. Doing nothing is wasting more space than Play would've.

obviously i'm not an imagineer or engineer but I still find it unbelievable that they cannot find something to do with this building and space. for a while they were using it during the festivals, especially the F&W and i liked the educational events they put in there. Given that Body Wars is still there, it seems to me that they could refurbish it and have either a Wreck it Ralph Sugar Rush ride, a Wall-e ride or even Moana, with themes inside for the kids and grown ups to enjoy together (not make the ride intense). Given that Star Tours keeps going and with refurbished missions, cant understand why you'd let an asset just sit like that. Guess they feel it wont bring more people to Epcot? We were walking around there yesterday and saying that Epcot still has a lot of space they could use for more Rides or different attractions. i hate seeing things be vacant like that.

 

[doctornick]

obviously i'm not an imagineer or engineer but I still find it unbelievable that they cannot find something to do with this building and space. for a while they were using it during the festivals, especially the F&W and i liked the educational events they put in there. Given that Body Wars is still there, it seems to me that they could refurbish it and have either a Wreck it Ralph Sugar Rush ride, a Wall-e ride or even Moana, with themes inside for the kids and grown ups to enjoy together (not make the ride intense). Given that Star Tours keeps going and with refurbished missions, cant understand why you'd let an asset just sit like that. Guess they feel it wont bring more people to Epcot? We were walking around there yesterday and saying that Epcot still has a lot of space they could use for more Rides or different attractions. i hate seeing things be vacant like that.

Reportedly, a lot (if not all) of the Body Wars infrastructure has been pillaged over the years, sometimes for repairs for Star Tours. If they were going to put a ride there now, even using the same ride mechanics, it would pretty much be a new build.