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Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

SteveAZee

Well-Known Member
Honestly, it's hard to imagine the place without the monorails and the track itself, particularly around the lagoon. Never mind the logistics of moving people from the TTC to MK, then there's a ambience of each hotel, certainly the Contemporary, that will be affected. Certainly walking and bussing to MK from the hotels is possible, and the boats will still exist, but... really? Not saying they won't scrap the whole lot, but... it's tough to imagine.
 

articos

Well-Known Member
I heard about the ditched trains a few years back. I have never heard the extend of the details of the beams that had to be ditched. Are there any news articles on that story?
None that I’ve seen. i don’t know where along the route the train derailed, so I can’t point you to a specific city. As far as I know, it’s a word of mouth story without much detail passed on by Fowler and Card Walker back in the day.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
First half I agree…second half not so much. I don’t believe anyone will or won’t pay the ransom for the hotels NOW specifically for the monorail. Many talk a big game…but rarely back it up on the field.
It's just speculation, to get corny, whatever will be, will be, but when they have to start replacing the rails those hotels will cease being called monorail resorts and go back to the original Magic Kingdom resorts. And you will have the MK/Epcot gondolas to go with them. Again, just speculation.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Funny because it leaked into the tunnels... I know because I was working there when it happened.
I don't know if it was on top of it or not, but I do know that it doesn't have to be. Water follows the path of least resistance. It might have been over it, but it didn't have to be. It's like a roof. The actual leak is usually never where the water shows up.
 
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Disone

Well-Known Member
Funny because it leaked into the tunnels... I know because I was working there when it happened.
You assumed the leak was coming from the Lagoon. It was not. Just as though the leak that are currently happening in the utilidor in the year 2021 have also nothing to do with the Lagoon that used to be there.

With a little bit of searching on the internet you can find plenty of images with the utilidor map overlaid on top of the park.
 
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Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
You assumed the leak was coming from the Lagoon. It was not. Just as though the leak that are currently happening in the utilidor in the year 2021 have also nothing to do with the Lagoon that used to be there.

With a little bit of searching on the internet you can find plenty of images with the utilidor map overlaid on top of the park.
This is what I was told when I was hired for 20k - that the renovation was going to take longer than announced due to the fact that leakage from the lagoon had leaked into the building below, and that serious work needed to be done, and as a result I wass transferred to Grand Prix. Sorry if it bother you but I'll take the word of maitenece and supervisors over yours.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure the leak rumor has been debunked (forget if it was Lee, marni1971 or someone else). Similar to the myth about Horizons being built on and severely damaged by a sinkhole (another false story perpetuated by Disney employees). 20k was removed because it was very costly and labor intensive to maintain and operate. Not because of lagoon leaks, but because of the cleaning, painting and repair needed for the underwater props and scenery. Plus the maintenance for the vehicles. It also had long lines and low capacity (not that modern Disney leadership cares about that).

Despite being immensely popular among guests, the leadership at WDW reportedly hated the ride. There are even stories about how WDW ops lied to guests and even higher execs to justify its closure. See this lengthy report from Lee back in 2004-

Ok, here's the story, courtesy of Jim Hill. I have confirmed this account with several people who were there and involved at the time.

Okay. In order to properly appreciate this story, you have to understand that, while WDW visitors may have loved the Magic Kingdom's "20,000 Leagues Under the Seas" ride, the park's operations staff absolutely HATED that attraction. Why? Because the subs were a maintenance nightmare. Each year, the ops crew would have to pour tens of thousands of dollars (and devote hundreds of hours of back-breaking labor) into the upkeep on that attraction. They'd spend weeks scraping scum out of the bottom of the lagoon, repainting the coral, repairing the fish, etc. And they had just grown tired of dealing with this annual headache.

So - when Disney's CEO Michael Eisner put out the word out in the summer of 1994 that the theme parks really had to start toeing the line, cost-wise - WDW ops staff finally saw their chance. By shutting down this single Fantasyland attraction, they could automatically save the company beaucoup bucks (as well as shine in Team Disney Burbank's eyes for moving so quickly to honor Eisner's wishes), not to mention putting an end to their enormous annual maintenance headache forever.

What these WDW ops guys hadn't counted on was that the public would get so upset when they found out that "20K" had quickly and quietly been closed back in September 1994. Within weeks of the attraction's closure, calls and letters began pouring in to company headquarters in Burbank - insisting that Disney immediately re-open this Fantasyland favorite.

Of course, the news of this uproar didn't sit well with WDW ops staff. Here they had finally found a way to close "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" and they intended to keep this Fantasyland ride closed. No matter they had to do.

So they were ready in early 1995 - when then-president of the Walt Disney Company Michael Ovitz came through the Walt Disney World resort on a corporate familiarization trip. Of course, while Ovitz was touring the Magic Kingdom, he brought up all the guests' complaints about "20K" being closed. In response to this, the ops staff insisted that they had only shut down this Fantasyland attraction because the ride was in such awful shape. Not to mention being unsafe.

Ovitz then said "Well, I'd still like to personally take a look at the attraction. Judge for myself whether or not the ride can be repaired and then re-opened." The WDW ops staff said "Well - okay, Mr. Ovitz. But we'll have to do this early tomorrow morning before the other guests enter the Magic Kingdom."

Which is why the following morning at 7 a.m. Mike Ovitz found himself standing in the queue at "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" as a sub that was loudly belching smoke came rumbling up to the dock. The Disney Company President then climbed down the stairs and found a quarter inch of water sloshing around in the bottom of the boat. When Mike pointed this out, the WDW ops staff said "Well, you have to understand that a lot of our subs are over 20 years old, Mr. Ovitz. So many of them have developed small pinhole leaks over time."

The sub then lurched away from the dock and took Ovitz & the ops crew on a somewhat jerky trip around the "20K" ride track, with the attraction's soundtrack barely audible through the ship's crackling loudspeakers. As you might imagine, once the boat pulled up to the dock, Michael quickly climbed out of the mildewed interior. He then turned to WDW's ops staff and told them that they had made the right decision. That - given the shape that "20K" was currently in - the safest and smartest thing to do with this Fantasyland attraction was keep it closed. Permanently.

Now I don't have to tell you smart people that WDW's ops staff had sandbagged Ovitz. That they had deliberately picked out the "20K" sub that was in the worst possible mechanical shape for him to ride in. That they recruited a ride operator that they could trust to give Michael the roughest ride imaginable. That they had even thrown a few buckets of water down into the bottom of the boat to simulate a pinhole leak. All in an effort to leave Ovitz with the impression that WDW's subs were beyond salvaging

 

Disone

Well-Known Member
This is what I was told when I was hired for 20k - that the renovation was going to take longer than announced due to the fact that leakage from the lagoon had leaked into the building below, and that serious work needed to be done, and as a result I wass transferred to Grand Prix. Sorry if it bother you but I'll take the word of maitenece and supervisors over yours.
Perhaps you were told that but that doesn't make it true. It makes it another false statement / assumption in a long line made by operations level. When I was hired Traditions they told me Cinderella Castle could be dismantled in the event of a hurricane. Turns out that's not true either. A Google search can revealed several website that will have overlays of the utilidor system and how it lays in proximity to Fantasyland. This can be easily looked up. I encourage you to do so. Construction pictures of the Walt Disney World Resort will also reveal Construction of the Lagoon right next to construction of the utilidor.

In the meanwhile you're not sorry so please don't use misplaced sarcasm. Its very disingenuous
 
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Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Honestly, it's hard to imagine the place without the monorails and the track itself, particularly around the lagoon. Never mind the logistics of moving people from the TTC to MK, then there's a ambience of each hotel, certainly the Contemporary, that will be affected. Certainly walking and bussing to MK from the hotels is possible, and the boats will still exist, but... really? Not saying they won't scrap the whole lot, but... it's tough to imagine.
The TTC is useless save for the parking lot. There’s no other “transportation” out of it…and ticket booths really are no longer necessary. I’m shocked when I see anyone at one…

the TTC is earmarked for poly expansion…if…big IF they pull the trigger on relocating the parking lot as has been rumored. I don’t know why they are doing the flyovers past the palm and magnolia if that isn’t some part of the deal?

to cater to the demographics that are dying out that road trip from the areas of the country not on the eastern seaboard? Can’t be just about the turnpike and 75…

so back to the monorails…if it didn’t serve the MK parking lot…there is really no use for the monorails. The belchers provide way more flexibility. A true “TTC” would be a junction for ski lifts and/or light rails somewhere to the south…it really hasn’t been in the right place since phase 3
 

SteveAZee

Well-Known Member
The TTC is useless save for the parking lot. There’s no other “transportation” out of it…and ticket booths really are no longer necessary. I’m shocked when I see anyone at one…

the TTC is earmarked for poly expansion…if…big IF they pull the trigger on relocating the parking lot as has been rumored. I don’t know why they are doing the flyovers past the palm and magnolia if that isn’t some part of the deal?

to cater to the demographics that are dying out that road trip from the areas of the country not on the eastern seaboard? Can’t be just about the turnpike and 75…

so back to the monorails…if it didn’t serve the MK parking lot…there is really no use for the monorails. The belchers provide way more flexibility. A true “TTC” would be a junction for ski lifts and/or light rails somewhere to the south…it really hasn’t been in the right place since phase 3
Yes, I see it's A way to go... feasible, does more with the space available, all of that. Take TTC off the table and you could expand Poly (didn't know that was on the table) or add a new resort of a different flavor. Pulling down all the monorail track, including the run through Contemp (patch up the holes), make people walk or boat (or bus) from GF and Poly... no more monorail runs to EPCOT... nothing's immutable.

Sad nonetheless.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Yes, I see it's A way to go... feasible, does more with the space available, all of that. Take TTC off the table and you could expand Poly (didn't know that was on the table) or add a new resort of a different flavor. Pulling down all the monorail track, including the run through Contemp (patch up the holes), make people walk or boat (or bus) from GF and Poly... no more monorail runs to EPCOT... nothing's immutable.

Sad nonetheless.
The poly DVC isn’t actually a DVC development

it’s those stupid water cabins…which were built to increase point banks and to encourage higher sale prices…and converting two old long houses to studios only.

so they don’t have the 1, 2 bedrooms or grand villas all the others were built with.

the 2 bedrooms vastly limited the potential and appeal…until you have those…you’re “DVC lite”

anyway…there were leaked “legit looking” plans when they built that of a tower across the parking lot from the poly roughly at the junction of TTC and Polynesian isle boulevard.

everything built since leads to that…closing of the speedway, the flyovers, etc etc.

it is probably still planned…just in holding. More grand Floridian conversions to reduce rack (to hide lack of demand for cash rooms…as with poly, contemporary, DAKL, Wilderness Lodge before it) is up next.
 
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pdude81

Well-Known Member
The poly DVC isn’t actually a DVC development

it’s those stupid water cabins…which were built to increase point banks and to encourage higher sale prices…and converting two old long houses to studios only.

so they don’t have the 1, 2 bedrooms of grand villas all the others were built with.

the 2 bedrooms vastly limited the potential and appeal…until you have those…you’re “DVC lite”

anyway…there were leaked “legit looking” plans when they built that of a tower across the parking lot from the poly roughly at the junction of TTC and Polynesian isle boulevard.

everything built since leads to that…closing of the speedway, the flyovers, etc etc.

it is probably still planned…just in holding. More grand Floridian conversions to reduce rack (to hide lack of demand for cash rooms…as with poly, contemporary, DAKL, Wilderness Lodge before it) is up next.
For some reason I thought they were looking to build a tower in the Pago Pago lot. But then they started charging for parking and suddenly it seemed like the asphalt was more valuable. I don't think I ever saw the drawings and I can't remember why I would have thought that.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
For some reason I thought they were looking to build a tower in the Pago Pago lot. But then they started charging for parking and suddenly it seemed like the asphalt was more valuable. I don't think I ever saw the drawings and I can't remember why I would have thought that.
I don’t remember the exact spot…I’m sure someone on this thread probably has it or can find it?

but it was mostly definitely on the outside of the beams and would involve restructuring the road…which will be a lot easier when the Floridian way bypass is done…

that road then becomes only necessary for poly access…which also is part of the point.
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
I'll address why I think what I was told was true 1) There was simply no reason to lie about the leaks - especially since it was visible, the water was indeed going somewhere 2) the spent a fortune not only rehabbing but literally removing the sets and re-seal;ling the floor. 3) Disneyland's leaks millions of gallons into the earth every year - no reason to suspect this was any different 4) They spent a small fortune on the rehab that year and it took months but it did indeed reopen for many years after that.

And I'm done with this.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'll address why I think what I was told was true 1) There was simply no reason to lie about the leaks - especially since it was visible, the water was indeed going somewhere 2) the spent a fortune not only rehabbing but literally removing the sets and re-seal;ling the floor. 3) Disneyland's leaks millions of gallons into the earth every year - no reason to suspect this was any different 4) They spent a small fortune on the rehab that year and it took months but it did indeed reopen for many years after that.

And I'm done with this.
There are drawings and maps. Was the area with the leak a whole floor under the rest of the utilidors? The water for the lagoon was below the walkway level, at utilidors level, so utilidors below the lagoon would have been an actual basement below the utilidors.
 

SteveAZee

Well-Known Member
There are drawings and maps. Was the area with the leak a whole floor under the rest of the utilidors? The water for the lagoon was below the walkway level, at utilidors level, so utilidors below the lagoon would have been an actual basement below the utilidors.
What I recall is that the utilidor's floor and the 20K bottom were at the original ground level and the MK was built on top of it, so the MK's walkways etc are really on the second floor, above the original grade. I can certainly see leakage coming from the 20K constructed 'pond' moving sideways into the utilidor hallways. I have trouble imagining a reason for putting additional storage or passageways under the 20K lagoon since it would be below grade in a place that has a high water table in the first place.
 

TrojanUSC

Well-Known Member
What I recall is that the utilidor's floor and the 20K bottom were at the original ground level and the MK was built on top of it, so the MK's walkways etc are really on the second floor, above the original grade. I can certainly see leakage coming from the 20K constructed 'pond' moving sideways into the utilidor hallways. I have trouble imagining a reason for putting additional storage or passageways under the 20K lagoon since it would be below grade in a place that has a high water table in the first place.

The mens and women's locker rooms in the utilidor abutted the 20K lagoon. There was nothing below the lagoon itself.
 

SteveAZee

Well-Known Member
The mens and women's locker rooms in the utilidor abutted the 20K lagoon. There was nothing below the lagoon itself.
Yes, sorry if I suggested otherwise. I wasn't sure what was adjacent to the lagoon, but I don't believe that there's anything under it. (or was under it).
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
Here's an outline of the utilidor overlaid on top of the park, I assume it's relatively accurate. 7DMT being in roughly the same position as the 20k lagoon. Though 7DMT's bottom left most corner seems to jut out slightly farther than the lagoon. The utilidor did not go underneath the lagoon. The edge seems to be just underneath the original Dumbo ride.

tumblr_ojwwjfbSg71rasnq9o1_1280.jpg


And a side by side comparison of these two areas without the overlay-

Screen%20Shot%202015-10-10%20at%204.11.51%20PM.png
 
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