New Latina Disney Princess

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Absolutely right ^
No. It is not "absolutely right". It is mindless, and is adhered to and accepted by pseudo-intellectuals, and certainly not people who believe in human equality.

If one can't see beyond skin color, gender, sexual orientation or appearance and recognize human traits in characters and relate to those characters in a story, then one is not "enlightened". Rather, one is merely slave to the same exact bigoted thoughts they profess not to support.

To imply that because a hero isn't a certain gender, or a certain race, the moral and story become less relevant, is sheer idiocy.

It would be like me telling my severely mixed child (she's native american, irish, puerto rican and southern black mixed) that she can't enjoy the character aspects of Belle, who is her favorite princess, because"well...sweety, she doesn't look like you...if only she had more melatonin, THEN she would be a proper role model."

Step back from the false bravado and straw men these sort of overly politically "sensitive" statements make and look at them for a moment as a human being.

They are sheer drivel.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I would love to see a Latina princess. I just want it done right, not forced. If they have a great story to tell with a Latina princess then I'm on board. As of right now Elena looks like she will just be a TV character. Nothing wrong with that but it's not the same as an animated feature from Disney Animation Studios. If they really want to catch headlines with a South American story they should adapt "La Llorona" :hilarious:.
Now THIS is absolutely right.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Moana is Disney's first Polynesian Princess. It is going to be a musical film animated in CGI. It will hit theaters in 2016. The only two characters confirmed as of now is Moana voiced by most likely a Polynesian and Maui voiced by Dwayne Johnson. And he's singing too! This is the only official art I think :
MOANA-First-Look-Concept-Art.jpg
lilo4_L.jpg
 

Cmdr_Crimson

Well-Known Member
Moana is Disney's first Polynesian Princess. It is going to be a musical film animated in CGI. It will hit theaters in 2016. The only two characters confirmed as of now is Moana voiced by most likely a Polynesian and Maui voiced by Dwayne Johnson. And he's singing too! This is the only official art I think :
MOANA-First-Look-Concept-Art.jpg

And if successful slap her in Adventureland or have M&G's in Aulani.....

Dwayne The Rock Johnson is pretty funny when he does voices..He voiced Captain Chuck Baker in Planet 51..
6590441_std.jpg
 

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
No. It is not "absolutely right". It is mindless, and is adhered to and accepted by pseudo-intellectuals, and certainly not people who believe in human equality.

If one can't see beyond skin color, gender, sexual orientation or appearance and recognize human traits in characters and relate to those characters in a story, then one is not "enlightened". Rather, one is merely slave to the same exact bigoted thoughts they profess not to support.

To imply that because a hero isn't a certain gender, or a certain race, the moral and story become less relevant, is sheer idiocy.

It would be like me telling my severely mixed child (she's native american, irish, puerto rican and southern black mixed) that she can't enjoy the character aspects of Belle, who is her favorite princess, because"well...sweety, she doesn't look like you...if only she had more melatonin, THEN she would be a proper role model."

Step back from the false bravado and straw men these sort of overly politically "sensitive" statements make and look at them for a moment as a human being.

They are sheer drivel.
Did you read what he was responding to in the slightest? And you are twisting this in all the wrong ways. You're daughter connecting to those characters take nothing away from that. And if she is happy and content that's perfect and fantastic and you are blessed you really are. But I have had cousins, and other young children that I know who like to see media that reflects themselves who ask me "Why don't any of these characters look or talk like us?". My father took us to see The book of life and the smile and pure joy on his face that a film about Sanchez's made it to the screen was just sheer joy. I even wrote a post about that here. No one is saying you can't admire a hero for what they are. Just that there need to be more hero's with all kinds of looks and area's to choose from.

Just this week star vs the forces of evil premiered and you know what happened when my little cousin juan saw it? He flipped out, he recorded it and watched it twice, he keep telling me how cool it was that marco and his family looked like ours. Representation is not some sort of liberal fantasy spun out by people who only see color, it has a very real effect on people and children. Step back and don't you or anyone on this forum dare try and ever tell me representation doesn't matter in the long run. Because it absolutely does. And had you read the comment radiator springs was responding with such sensitivity and class you would have avoided this long rant. The only sheer drivel is you trying to demean my experience and opinion, and clearly others on here as well. Now if you don't care about how me or others feel about this fine, but keep it to yourself. Because the only thing you're going to accomplish is getting this thread locked.
 
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Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
While arguably the first Latina princess, Disney Animation across the board isn't exactly hurting in Hispanic characters. You've got Audrey from Atlantis: The Lost Empire, several characters from Gargoyles, Soos from Gravity Falls, and most recently Marco from Star Vs The Forces of Evil, to name a few.
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
Kinda cheapens the honor of being the "first Latina princess" if she's created for a toddler's TV show, doesn't it? Now if Animation Studios does to decide to create a movie with a Latin-American princess, it'll be "first Latin American princess** (**theatrically released and created by Walt Disney Animation Studios, with no connection or affiliation with the creations of Walt Disney Television)".

TV shows in general have a much shorter shelf-life and effect on public consciousness than film.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Did you read what he was responding to in the slightest?

Yes, I did. And I read his responses to make sure I wasn't mis-interpreting them.

And you are twisting this in all the wrong ways.

Am I? I don't find the "struggle for representation" to be anything more than a manufactured issue that small minds create and then embrace to explain away their own bigotry.

But I have had cousins, and other young children that I know who like to see media that reflects themselves who ask me "Why don't any of these characters look or talk like us?".

I call political farce.

The only time my daughter has ever brought up race was because she was instructed to do so. It's people TEACHING her she is different, like you, who thereby teach her to notice the differences. Furthermore, your statement proves it's the most superficial differences that are being taught. "Why don't they look or talk like us?" is a simple answer.

They don't look like you because they are not you, and they don't talk like you because of <insert story about your history>. Teaching a child that they are either special, due to this, or neglected by societal representation due to this, is not only shallow minded, but is simply a logical and bigoted fallacy.

My father took us to see The book of life and the smile and pure joy on his face that a film about Sanchez's made it to the screen was just sheer joy. I even wrote a post about that here. No one is saying you can't admire a hero for what they are. Just that there need to be more hero's with all kinds of looks and area's to choose from.

I wholly appreciate your experience with your father (I did read your blog post on it, well written, btw, and thanks for the link), however, I do not agree with your conclusion in the slightest.

This movie is an example of the type of movies that SHOULD be made, not because of some idealistic "representation" mantra, but because they are compelling stories with good production values which pay homage to the culture and people they represent. And, as a result, it's a great movie. One that once I saw the previews for, I was excited to go see, and my daughter thoroughly enjoyed.

I still count it among one of the under-rated films of last year because...well, the polar opposite of it (a film that was NOT well researched and didn't have much in terms of plot...from Disney...called Frozen) took over much of the 2014 animated film focus.

The focus shouldn't be on "representation" nor should it be on "inclusion"...that's how you end up with "token characters". It should be on telling a good story with high production values. Period.

What you (and Radiator) seem to miss is that by constantly simplifying it, and making the false demand of "representation" and "inclusion" and "understanding", you are forcing the focus in the wrong direction.

Take, for example, ParaNorman. The only animated film to ever address openly (even if fleetingly) alternative sexual relationships (it's not made clear in the film). They handled it perfectly. It wasn't shoved down your throat, it wasn't overly preachy, and it wasn't "token".

It was a side-note in the story that in the end didn't mean much at all, and that's EXACTLY how these issues should be handled. They are NOT primary issues, and to assign them such importance merely begs for the true primary issue, that of story and character development, to be shoved to the side for the sake of seeming "politically correct".

Just this week star vs the forces of evil premiered and you know what happened when my little cousin juan saw it? He flipped out, he recorded it twice, he keep telling me how cool it was that marco and his family looked like ours.

See what I said above about superficial. Someone taught him that.

Representation is not some sort of liberal fantasy spun out by people who only see color, it has a very real effect on people and children.

It's certainly not "liberal" because it's not liberating. It is, however, a fantasy spun out by people who only see color, and it certainly does have a very real effect on people and children. On that, we agree.

Step back and don't you dare or anyone on this forum try and ever tell me representation doesn't matter in the long run.

"Representation", as you see it, doesn't matter in the long run.

Because it absolutely does.

No, it doesn't.

And had you read the comment radiator springs was responding with such sensitivity and class you would have avoided this long rant.

I already covered this.

The only sheer drivel is you trying to demean my experience and opinion, and clearly others on here as well.

I am not trying to demean you. I am trying to explain to you how the philosophy you have, I disagree with. Now, you can feel free to tell me to shove off and that you disagree with me. That is completely your right, and I respect that (and, whether you think it or not, I respect your RIGHT to have your opinion...I do not necessarily respect your opinion however).

Now if you don't care about how me or others feel about this fine, but keep it to yourself. Because the only thing you're going to accomplish is getting this thread locked.

e31.jpg
 
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Sped2424

Well-Known Member
Okay engladd, you respect my opinion and then you say people who view my way are small minded and reverse bigots. I would love to respond to everything you wrote, but again we would get this thread shut down. Pm if you'd like to continue this discussion. But don't sit on some sort of philosophical high horse that I can't understand that somehow you a white person his whole life knows far than me someone who has indeed dealt with issues of race and being a person of color. And how that has affected me in my life in regards to media and how I have seen it affect others in my family like me. But please enlighten me, call me bigoted, call me whatever, but you can't call my experiences false or manufactured, because they are the truth. And to me that's all that's important. If you see nothing wrong with your reaction fine, just do me a favor and please don't continue it in this thread. Again pm me if you really wish to continue this conversation, perhaps you could enlighten me, or hopefully I could give some perspective to you.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Okay engladd, you respect my opinion and then you say people who view my way are small minded and reverse bigots. I would love to respond to everything you wrote, but again we would get this thread shut down. Pm if you'd like to continue this discussion. But don't sit on some sort of philosophical high horse that I can't understand that somehow you a white person his whole life knows far than me someone who has indeed dealt with issues of race and being a person of color. And how that has affected me in my life in regards to media and how I have seen it affect others in my family like me. But please enlighten me, call me bigoted, call me whatever, but you can't call my experiences false or manufactured, because they are the truth. And to me that's all that's important.
I'm not white. Your assumption that I am to advance your argument reveals something about you.

Also, there is no such thing as "reverse bigotry". Jeezus.

So, drop that and take it somewhere else. I am so sick of that being the defacto response on these sorts of topics, as if it is some sort of justification that "YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND!!"

Fine, MAKE me understand. If you can't explain it, then it probably isn't worth explaining, or you should spend more time crafting your philosophy.

Wanna know who got the rough end of the stick in real life? My cousins who are sitting on reservations. So, take YOUR high horse and rethink it.

And, wanna know why many of my cousins aren't bouncing off the reservations, even after Disney was so kind and noble to "represent them" by making Pocahontas (who wasn't from our tribe, though Hollywood has made a TON of other movies about how noble American Indians are)...I mean, that's what it's all about, right? "Representation"?

It's because a lot of them are drunks with no ambition.

When was the last time you saw a Native American character in a TV show, even in a token slot, much less a lead role?

By your philosophy, if that changed, and every show and movie had one, then we'd be the dominate culture once again in N. America. But, that isn't the case. Why? Because that philosophy is flawed.

I am SO GLAD that Disney made Lone Ranger, just to give inspiration to all the young Cherokee.

<facepalms>

With all due respect, I do not "call your experiences false", but I do believe they are manufactured. Your own manufactured reality. You see what you want to see to form confirmation bias.

So, as I stated, I respect your opinion. But, that doesn't mean I have to agree with it, nor does it mean that I should be quiet while you indulge in it.
 
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englanddg

One Little Spark...
In fact, I'll leave the argument with this.

The only people who care about the construct of "race" are racists. The only people who care about gender (while this isn't a construct, rather, it's biological fact, but one which has taken the same tactics politically as the "race" crowd has) are sexists.

It's that simple.

People are people. And good stories are good stories. And characters we can care about who are well written are just the same.

"Hispanics" or "Latinos" (discard the fact the term is "derogatory" as it's relating them to Romans, which they never address, and they speak a "white" language, which they never address...those hypocrisies I won't even begin to get into here), as defined, are a vast group of cultures and appearances. Just ask anyone who is from Central or South America. There is no such thing as "Latina"...truly.

Call a Colombian a Mexican, and watch them flip out on you. Call a Peruvian a Puerto Rican. List goes on. The sheer ignorance this concept of "Latino" embraces boggles my mind.

To take "Book of Life" and say it's an adequate representation of Peruvians (who are also, by general definition, Latino) is stupid. It is, however, a fun movie that represents the best of Mexican culture and lore.

To teach children and people to think in such simple constructs which ignore actual cultural awareness, especially based on skin color, is sheer idiocy.

And, it teaches cultural ignorance. Which leads to...bigotry.

So, would I love to see a "Latina Princess"? Sure. But not because she's "Latina".

Rather, I'd love to see Disney tell a good story, and have a compelling character that EVERYONE can enjoy.
 
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TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
The only people who care about the construct of "race" are racists. The only people who care about gender (while this isn't a construct, rather, it's biological fact, but one which has taken the same tactics politically as the "race" crowd has) are sexists.

That's a pretty broad generalization.

And "gender" is a construct. "Sex" isn't. However, masculinity and femininity are.

Maybe it's not a good idea to use kids movies produced by Hollywood to advance arguments about complicated issues?
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
That's a pretty broad generalization.

And "gender" is a construct. "Sex" isn't. However, masculinity and femininity are.

Maybe it's not a good idea to use kids movies produced by Hollywood to advance arguments about complicated issues?
Agreed, sortof. I view "sex" and "gender" as different animals...because they are. Sex is just that. Gender, however, does tie into your mention of masculinity and femininity.

And from there it gets really muddy.

However...I am not the one asking for kids movies to include "token" characters for the sake of "representation".
 

TestTrack Dummy

Well-Known Member
I've read both sides of this debate. I must say that englanddg has a point. I am Hispanic (Dominican to be exact) and I have loved Disney movies since I was in diapers. Not once did I ever feel disconnected to the Disney movies I watched because the characters weren't Hispanic. As a matter of fact it never crossed my mind, I just enjoyed the movies. My sister was obsessed with the princesses but she never had an issue either. I understand not every one is the same, my experiences won't be the same as the next person. As I said before, I just want great movies from Disney Animation. If they have a great story with Hispanic characters then that would be awesome! If that story doesn't involve Hispanic characters at all then that's fine too. As long as the it's a good movie that's all that matters to me. Just one guys opinion :)
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
It made it seem as though diversity issues that are real for countless people, and need to be talked about in order for all of humanity to be properly represented, were just the complaints of mad overzealous whiners. (There are people that take this kind of stuff too far, but they're few and far between compared to the many that are actually right.) I was just reading about an example of how this affects people:

Mostly just making fun of the overzealous people who demand diversity. Not people who want diversity in general.
 

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