News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[MisterPenguin]

The expansion plans mentioned in the blog have a issues of what is being attached to what...

West Side:

​

Attaching AKL to Blizzard with a spur to Coronado only connects 2 resorts to a water park.​

​

Presuming it stops at DAK, then you only have two resorts attached to a water park and one theme park.​

​

If it's extended to DHS, then you have 2 resorts to 2 theme parks and a water park with a multi-station juggernaut to get to Epcot, and conversely, a multi-station lengthy ride from CBR/Riv/Pop/AoA to DAK/BB.​

​

A straight line from AKL to the DHS station is at least 14 minutes long. Putting stations in the way makes it longer.​

​

Also, this leaves out the All Stars.​

East Side:

Typhoon Lagoon to Disney Springs of course sounds ludicrous. You have to add resorts to that, but where?​

​

If you want to attach it to the current line, you can have a fourth spur to CBR sticking out in the water (like the Pop station).​

​

And that gives CBR/Riv/Pop/AoA access to DS and TL. But since that current line really wasn't meant for the Crescent Lake resorts, that means they have a short hike to get to a station before gondoling to DS (or to DAK for that matter with a Western line).​

If there ever was a time they had planned a greater expansion of the gondola system, it appears they gave up on it with the way they constructed the current one. There is no easy way to expand the current system... as if they had no intentions to.

If they wanted an expandable system, they would have made the BoardWalk turning station into a major hub. With space to add lines to a Western and an Easter hub. This comports with @marni1971's claim that (at the time he posted it) there were no plans to expand the gondola system.

 

[marni1971]

The expansion plans mentioned in the blog have a issues of what is being attached to what...

West Side:

​

Attaching AKL to Blizzard with a spur to Coronado only connects 2 resorts to a water park.​

​

Presuming it stops at DAK, then you only have two resorts attached to a water park and one theme park.​

​

If it's extended to DHS, then you have 2 resorts to 2 theme parks and a water park with a multi-station juggernaut to get to Epcot, and conversely, a multi-station lengthy ride from CBR/Riv/Pop/AoA to DAK/BB.​

​

A straight line from AKL to the DHS station is at least 14 minutes long. Putting stations in the way makes it longer.​

​

Also, this leaves out the All Stars.​

East Side:

Typhoon Lagoon to Disney Springs of course sounds ludicrous. You have to add resorts to that, but where?​

​

If you want to attach it to the current line, you can have a fourth spur to CBR sticking out in the water (like the Pop station).​

​

And that gives CBR/Riv/Pop/AoA access to DS and TL. But since that current line really wasn't meant for the Crescent Lake resorts, that means they have a short hike to get to a station before gondoling to DS (or to DAK for that matter with a Western line).​

If there ever was a time they had planned a greater expansion of the gondola system, it appears they gave up on it with the way they constructed the current one. There is no easy way to expand the current system... as if they had no intentions to.

If they wanted an expandable system, they would have made the BoardWalk turning station into a major hub. With space to add lines to a Western and an Easter hub. This comports with @marni1971's claim that (at the time he posted it) there were no plans to expand the gondola system.

The only thought I know of right now now is a separate line from the turn station to DAK. It’s a thought. Nothing more at this time. There’s a lot of internal voices both for and against the system.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The only thought I know of right now now is a separate line from the turn station to DAK. It’s a thought. Nothing more at this time. There’s a lot of internal voices both for and against the system.

And where the turn station is, would make a good hub... if it were built as such. To retrofit it to be an on/off/transfer station, they'd have to take that station and the Epcot rope off-line and build a new station.

Doesn't seem like they really planned on expansion from they way they built it.

 

[Grimley1968]

The only thought I know of right now now is a separate line from the turn station to DAK. It’s a thought. Nothing more at this time. There’s a lot of internal voices both for and against the system.

While I'm not sure I'd enjoy riding such a relatively slow form of transportation over that distance, one thing that works in favor of such a plan is that such a thing could be constructed without much, if any, disruption of the current system, at least compared to going to other places in the current system.

ETA: forgot that this would turn the turn station into a hub, with disembarking and embarking!

 

[Bocabear]

I was actually surprised how fast the Gondolas actually are. If I had to go back out to the front of the park to the bus loops and take a bus to DHS I guarantee you it would take much longer than the Gondola...
After a ride on them, I am hooked. It was a great experience...quick and peaceful... a lovely ride

 

[Phil12]

And how does this concern the gandola system by talking about service in rooms?

It demonstrates that the gondola system was put into place to serve a resort that is overcrowded and has horrible bus service. And now those guests are having to pay an extra $38.00 per night to help pay for the Skyliner. Yet millions of other guests will be using the Skyliner for free. So I think we need to say a big, "Thank You" to the guests that stay at PoP and AoA resorts for their unselfish subsidization of the Skyliner. Of course, the hope was that those resorts might have better amenities to justify their high price but unfortunately that's not the case.

 

[Phil12]

I was actually surprised how fast the Gondolas actually are. If I had to go back out to the front of the park to the bus loops and take a bus to DHS I guarantee you it would take much longer than the Gondola...
After a ride on them, I am hooked. It was a great experience...quick and peaceful... a lovely ride

Or you could go to the back of the park and walk to DHS and get there faster than the Skyliner.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

It demonstrates that the gondola system was put into place to serve a resort that is overcrowded and has horrible bus service. And now those guests are having to pay an extra $38.00 per night to help pay for the Skyliner. Yet millions of other guests will be using the Skyliner for free. So I think we need to say a big, "Thank You" to the guests that stay at PoP and AoA resorts for their unselfish subsidization of the Skyliner. Of course, the hope was that those resorts might have better amenities to justify their high price but unfortunately that's not the case.

How does this same principle of "subsidizing transportation" not apply to the Contemporary, Poly, and GF for the Monorail?

OR Contemporary, Poly, GF, WL, and FW for the launches/cruisers?

OR Yacht/Beach, BW, Swolphin for the Friendship boats?

 

[Phil12]

How does this same principle of "subsidizing transportation" not apply to the Contemporary, Poly, and GF for the Monorail?

OR Contemporary, Poly, GF, WL, and FW for the launches/cruisers?

OR Yacht/Beach, BW, Swolphin for the Friendship boats?

You're very astute to point that those resorts you mention do indeed subsidize their transportation options. The point is that Pop Century and AoA are defined as "value" resorts by WDW just as are the All-Star resorts. However, the All-Star resorts truly have a value price (at least by Disney standards) starting at $99.00 per night. The Pop Century rooms start at $137.00 per night and the AoA rooms start at $160.00 per night.

In reality, unless you get a substantial discount, the Pop Century and AoA rooms are no value at all. There was a time not too long ago that Pop Century rooms were priced the same as the All-Star rooms. And Pop Century is a less desirable resort due to stuffing 2880 rooms in the same footprint that All-Star uses for 1920 rooms yet enough fans liked this guest sardine approach.

Disney obviously realized that the "Pop-Half-Century" resort (since they decided not to build the "Legendary Years") was going in the wrong direction. They re-imagined the tiny rooms by throwing in a Murphy bed and laminate flooring with a sales pitch and darn if some guests were willing to pay more for less!

And, of course, the bus service was always horrendous at the Pop Century so the addition of the Skyliner is a true blessing.

 

[nickys]

You're very astute to point that those resorts you mention do indeed subsidize their transportation options. The point is that Pop Century and AoA are defined as "value" resorts by WDW just as are the All-Star resorts. However, the All-Star resorts truly have a value price (at least by Disney standards) starting at $99.00 per night. The Pop Century rooms start at $137.00 per night and the AoA rooms start at $160.00 per night.

In reality, unless you get a substantial discount, the Pop Century and AoA rooms are no value at all. There was a time not too long ago that Pop Century rooms were priced the same as the All-Star rooms. And Pop Century is a less desirable resort due to stuffing 2880 rooms in the same footprint that All-Star uses for 1920 rooms yet enough fans liked this guest sardine approach.

Disney obviously realized that the "Pop-Half-Century" resort (since they decided not to build the "Legendary Years") was going in the wrong direction. They re-imagined the tiny rooms by throwing in a Murphy bed and laminate flooring with a sales pitch and darn if some guests were willing to pay more for less!

And, of course, the bus service was always horrendous at the Pop Century so the addition of the Skyliner is a true blessing.

The price differential has been around for a while, especially AoA which falls between value and moderate.

But surely it comes a no surprise to anyone that the Skyliner was going to raise prices at these resorts? We’ve been discussing it on here since day one of the thread - probably even before that since this thread was created as a result of the great detective work here that broke the news.

 

[beertiki]

$38 is worth it when you are in a first floor room in building number 6 at Pop, and you get to security at DHS in 16 minutes. Great view, and always a seat available.

 

[peter11435]

You're very astute to point that those resorts you mention do indeed subsidize their transportation options. The point is that Pop Century and AoA are defined as "value" resorts by WDW just as are the All-Star resorts. However, the All-Star resorts truly have a value price (at least by Disney standards) starting at $99.00 per night. The Pop Century rooms start at $137.00 per night and the AoA rooms start at $160.00 per night.

In reality, unless you get a substantial discount, the Pop Century and AoA rooms are no value at all. There was a time not too long ago that Pop Century rooms were priced the same as the All-Star rooms. And Pop Century is a less desirable resort due to stuffing 2880 rooms in the same footprint that All-Star uses for 1920 rooms yet enough fans liked this guest sardine approach.

Disney obviously realized that the "Pop-Half-Century" resort (since they decided not to build the "Legendary Years") was going in the wrong direction. They re-imagined the tiny rooms by throwing in a Murphy bed and laminate flooring with a sales pitch and darn if some guests were willing to pay more for less!

And, of course, the bus service was always horrendous at the Pop Century so the addition of the Skyliner is a true blessing.

Pop century has historically been slightly higher than the All-Stars despite them both being values. The skyliner didn’t create that it just increased the difference.

 

[larryz]

You move the person or corpse out of the way and life continues on.

Have you driven on a major interstate lately? Complete shutdowns of 2 to 3 hours are becoming less and less uncommon.

 

[joelkfla]

No mass transit system in the world grinds to a halt over a medical problem.

Not the entire system, but it's quite common to see delays or stations being skipped for a time, literally attributed to "medical issue" on the local system's status app. I've seen it in NYC, Chicago, and Wash DC, IIRC. Also on a reality TV series about London's Underground.

With Skyliner, since there are only 3 lines and 5 stations, and no way to bypass a station, the affect of an event at one station appears magnified.

Granted, Disney goes overboard on handling situations, but that's their overly cautious legal department.

 

[drizgirl]

Granted, Disney goes overboard on handling situations, but that's their overly cautious legal department.

No doubt. But that causes more havoc here than in most other areas of parks operation.

 

[Goofyernmost]

You're very astute to point that those resorts you mention do indeed subsidize their transportation options. The point is that Pop Century and AoA are defined as "value" resorts by WDW just as are the All-Star resorts. However, the All-Star resorts truly have a value price (at least by Disney standards) starting at $99.00 per night. The Pop Century rooms start at $137.00 per night and the AoA rooms start at $160.00 per night.

In reality, unless you get a substantial discount, the Pop Century and AoA rooms are no value at all. There was a time not too long ago that Pop Century rooms were priced the same as the All-Star rooms. And Pop Century is a less desirable resort due to stuffing 2880 rooms in the same footprint that All-Star uses for 1920 rooms yet enough fans liked this guest sardine approach.

Disney obviously realized that the "Pop-Half-Century" resort (since they decided not to build the "Legendary Years") was going in the wrong direction. They re-imagined the tiny rooms by throwing in a Murphy bed and laminate flooring with a sales pitch and darn if some guests were willing to pay more for less!

And, of course, the bus service was always horrendous at the Pop Century so the addition of the Skyliner is a true blessing.

Man, you sure do come up with lopsided logic! POP and AoA are still value based on an onsite comparison. Compared to offsite they are not and never have been. However compared with the Grand Floridian it is the best value you can get on Disney Property. Those other "luxury" resorts around MK offer Monorails and those value or mid resorts offer a more basic Gondola form of transportation and just like the MK resorts it offers that new form of transit to two parks but for a lot less then the Luxury. You act as if the rest of the world stood still in pricing and definition between value and luxury. They did not. Prices went up there and everywhere else. Even when the price was $60.00 per night it was still a ripoff as far as amenities go. So it all remains comparatively the same. The common denominator in all your posts is you. Perhaps, your attitude and your outlook is more of the problem the anything Disney does.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Back to have you people ever been to a ski resort? I have been on many chair lifts and a gondola or two that stopped for a minute or two. Some tines longer but never 30-45 minutes. Common thing but there is zero communication. I put faith in the stoner running the line that he will get it going again as fast as possible. "Dude I'm missing time on the powder."

My fear with Disney is the employees have a huge list of safety things they have to do which leads to me being stuck at a stop for a much longer time then it should take. No mass transit system in the world grinds to a halt over a medical problem. You move the person or corpse out of the way and life continues on. You don't move the person if there is a injury as in back or neck or skull crushed in etc. Is that going to happen on the gondola? Most likely no but with the Disney crowd who knows?

I know I'm a horrible person but Disney stopping the line for 30-45 minutes or so at a time is going to cause more problems. People will panic. A gondola in motion will stay in motion going forward, if left not moving on a windy day the gondola will start swaying in the wind terrifying many people. At a point the good of the many out ways the good of the one. A taped please stay in your seats until the ride moves again isn't going to cut it.

Back to have you people ever been to a ski resort? I have been on many chair lifts and a gondola or two that stopped for a minute or two. Some tines longer but never 30-45 minutes. Common thing but there is zero communication. I put faith in the stoner running the line that he will get it going again as fast as possible. "Dude I'm missing time on the powder."

My fear with Disney is the employees have a huge list of safety things they have to do which leads to me being stuck at a stop for a much longer time then it should take. No mass transit system in the world grinds to a halt over a medical problem. You move the person or corpse out of the way and life continues on. You don't move the person if there is a injury as in back or neck or skull crushed in etc. Is that going to happen on the gondola? Most likely no but with the Disney crowd who knows?

I know I'm a horrible person but Disney stopping the line for 30-45 minutes or so at a time is going to cause more problems. People will panic. A gondola in motion will stay in motion going forward, if left not moving on a windy day the gondola will start swaying in the wind terrifying many people. At a point the good of the many out ways the good of the one. A taped please stay in your seats until the ride moves again isn't going to cut it.

I generally agree with you (avoid skier here, opening day in one week!), but I'll note that at least in Ontario, a death on the road or on mass transit will result in a complete shut down while they carry out the accident investigation.

 

[Incomudro]

Back to have you people ever been to a ski resort? I have been on many chair lifts and a gondola or two that stopped for a minute or two. Some tines longer but never 30-45 minutes. Common thing but there is zero communication. I put faith in the stoner running the line that he will get it going again as fast as possible. "Dude I'm missing time on the powder."

My fear with Disney is the employees have a huge list of safety things they have to do which leads to me being stuck at a stop for a much longer time then it should take. No mass transit system in the world grinds to a halt over a medical problem. You move the person or corpse out of the way and life continues on. You don't move the person if there is a injury as in back or neck or skull crushed in etc. Is that going to happen on the gondola? Most likely no but with the Disney crowd who knows?

I know I'm a horrible person but Disney stopping the line for 30-45 minutes or so at a time is going to cause more problems. People will panic. A gondola in motion will stay in motion going forward, if left not moving on a windy day the gondola will start swaying in the wind terrifying many people. At a point the good of the many out ways the good of the one. A taped please stay in your seats until the ride moves again isn't going to cut it.

I got slammed on this forum for suggesting much of this.

 

[danlb_2000]

"Every possible what if?"....

What if the stoppage announcement starts sounding like a crazy robot voice...

 

[Victor Kelly]

Nothing posted publicly, but there is speculation that master planning produced a resort-wide gondola system, which was then broken up into phases.

I can see that being the case. See of it works out before further investment.