News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

flynnibus

Premium Member
I'm certainly not an expert on gondola systems or the possible ways to power them. I have stated numerous times I have no personal experience with riding these things let alone designing them. What I know of the subject I learned from reading here and several other online sources. Since everything you read on the internet is definitely true I'm sure I'm correct;););)

The ultracapacitor option is somewhat proven technology. It's used on the London gondola right now. From everything I've read it's not highly reliable right now with that particular system. Reports of issues with cars without working AC. It makes sense there would be growing pains since the technology is relatively new (or at least it's use in a large scale gondola system). Traditional batteries (I think someone mentioned Tesla batteries earlier) that would be charged overnight and used all day would be far too heavy to be practical. In the not too distant future if battery technology continues to increase at the current pace this will be an option. Tesla may be the driver of that innovation with its gigafactory. Once the technology is there I could see gondolas take off in cities as legit mass transit options. I know Austin, Cleveland and Chicago are all considering options to add gondolas for tourism and mass transit. I think we're maybe 5 to 10 years away.

Something that I am somewhat knowledgable on would be the solar power option. I work in the energy industry for a company that has built quite a few solar systems from huge multi-acre utility scale projects in the desert with thousands of panels to large systems for hotels and other industrial customers to residential home solar down to small panels on the roof of bus/train stations to power lights and advertisements. If they add panels to the roof of the gondolas it would generate about enough power to maybe run some LED lights and/or possibly a small fan. The closest thing I've seen to solar powered AC on a small scale like this was in Phoenix where a sample light rail shelter was setup which used solar panels to run fans to circulate cool air created using chilled water. It's basiclay an outdoor AC system to cool people off with a blast of cool air while they wait when they push a button. Guess it comes in handy on 100+ degree days. Downtown Phoenix already has the chilled water system in place which is really doing most of the cooling work so it was relatively easy to install this system but the solar power isn't directly creating cool air, just running a few fans to circulate it. Here's some pictures of the system:
View attachment 212879
View attachment 212880

Yes evaporation systems are a simpler means (and lower power) cooling system. But they need hot dry air climates to be effective. They don't work well in recirculating or high humidity environments (because the water won't evaporate as efficiently when the air is already saturated). They are ideal for lower power needs since it's basically just a fan... and some way to load up the fresh water.

Condenser/compressor systems are work/energy cycles... you actually spend energy to compress the refrigerant... and the cooling comes from changing the volume rapidly. To repeat, you have to invest more energy - you can't get away from that. People keep asking like "can't we just get free cooling?" - not if we want to respect the laws of conservation of energy :)

The process is very energy intensive and why it's difficult to include in low voltage systems without a lot of power.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I (and maybe someone else) said Tesla. Tesla batteries are super capacitor technology.

No they aren't. They are lithium ion.

You'll note I mentioned combining three different methods of power delivery. Method #1, solar could provide enough power to sustain a circuit that could power a low speed fan, and any additional power could be diverted to the rest of the system. Method #2, power from movement. Like the alternator in your car, it's plenty of energy to power a cell and the AC in your car,

Have you paid attention to how fast that alternator in your car is being spun? You do know the gondolas are not moving relative to the rope right? How is this free energy movement being picked up?
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Just for the record I never said it wasn't possible to add AC to the gondolas. It definitely is. They had reasons that led them to not go with that option. We don't know exactly why, but I'm sure both cost and reliability factored in pretty heavily. I'm actually surprised Disney didn't try to get a corporate sponsor in the energy industry to foot part of the bill and provide expertise but I also think time was a factor. They want this up and running before SW Land opens. New technology tends to have delays.

Speaking of the patent @larryz posted, there's a company in CA that uses ice for cooling on an industrial scale. The units freeze water overnight and then during the peak hours when power prices spike they use the ice to produce cool air which supplements the buildings standard AC systems. It's a pretty cool technology. The units they have are rather large and only last about 6 hours but they are used in large industrial and office buildings. Not sure if they would translate to smaller scale units for gondolas. Here's a picture of one of the units and a link to the company's site:
http://iceenergy.wpengine.com/grid/#how
View attachment 212886

Each morning load up each gondola with a block of ice.

Even before my time, that's how refrigerators worked. Ice cart delivery. Big ol' block of ice in the top compartment.

upload_2017-6-30_23-51-17.png
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
... and just because something is patented doesn't mean it's practical. The patent looks interesting but it's unclear how long the ice would last and what mechanism would be needed to re-load the car with new ice.

It's a great example of some of the stupidity that somehow gets through the patent system. The "invention" isn't new or novel... it's basically an icebox cooler and a mister with nothing new or novel added. Both prior art.
 

cspencer96

Well-Known Member
I (and maybe someone else) said Tesla. Tesla batteries are super capacitor technology. You'll note I mentioned combining three different methods of power delivery. Method #1, solar could provide enough power to sustain a circuit that could power a low speed fan, and any additional power could be diverted to the rest of the system. Method #2, power from movement. Like the alternator in your car, it's plenty of energy to power a cell and the AC in your car, any extra energy could be diverted to charging a battery to run the unit when it's stopped/raining or maybe LED lights. Method #3, dock charging. Any time it's not in motion in a bay it could be charging or running AC in a higher power mode.

All three methods of power delivery could be combined using technology and a bit of smart switching/regulation/diversion to make sure it's never sending more power to any cell or device than expected when combined.

There are have been a few breakthroughs in non-alternating current powered air conditioning in the last 5-10 years.

These same methods could be used in new monorail cars to keep the AC on when they stop moving too, but I digress.

I guess my point is that I hope Disney will surprise us and once again be a company of tomorrow and use some of the new tech that's out in the world.

1) Tesla batteries are not "supercapacitor technology" - they are Lithium Ion batteries, bigger versions of the ones in your laptop.

2) It has been said time and time again that these gondolas will NOT be cooled with mechanical means. Naturally forced air ventilation will be used, which will be very sufficient to provide guest comfort for a short journey. @marni1971 even said that the choice that was made was determined through testing. How in the world is that not good enough for you to stop beating this dead horse further into the ground and arguing with people? Those of us that have a working knowledge of engineering principles (and basic walking around sense to know why turning the fan on in a room, moving the air, makes you feel a good bit cooler) see the issues with having the energy hog that is an AC unit, and why ventilation is fine.
 

roj2323

Well-Known Member
This conversation has become tiresome. Whether or not the Gondolas have AC doesn't matter. If it becomes an issue in the future Disney will adapt and address the issue. Until then everyone has beat this dead horse so much it looks like it's been put through a blender at this point.

If you want something to talk about that might be constructive and fun, talk about what the stations might look like.
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
Those of us that have a working knowledge of engineering principles (and basic walking around sense to know why turning the fan on in a room, moving the air, makes you feel a good bit cooler) see the issues with having the energy hog that is an AC unit, and why ventilation is fine.
As you tout your faith in engineering, a brief reminder that engineers designed the Titanic, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, and the Edsel, too.

And to keep @roj2323 happy, here's hoping the stations will have air conditioning, but I kind of doubt they will, since they'll be mostly open on at least one side...
 

King Racoon 77

Thank you sir. You were an inspiration.
Premium Member
This conversation has become tiresome. Whether or not the Gondolas have AC doesn't matter. If it becomes an issue in the future Disney will adapt and address the issue. Until then everyone has beat this dead horse so much it looks like it's been put through a blender at this point.

If you want something to talk about that might be constructive and fun, talk about what the stations might look like.
Dont know what the station will be like but will we see light theming kinda like this but disneyfied
maokong-gondola-taipei-attractions-of-color-fun-inn-3.jpg
 

RustySpork

Oscar Mayer Memer
1) Tesla batteries are not "supercapacitor technology" - they are Lithium Ion batteries, bigger versions of the ones in your laptop.

Hey, you're right. I thought the power wall was super capacitor tech, but it's just Lithium Ion. Still could work.

2) It has been said time and time again that these gondolas will NOT be cooled with mechanical means. Naturally forced air ventilation will be used, which will be very sufficient to provide guest comfort for a short journey. @marni1971 even said that the choice that was made was determined through testing. How in the world is that not good enough for you to stop beating this dead horse further into the ground and arguing with people?

It'll be like driving around Orlando with your windows up, vent fans on high and the AC off. Sounds lovely.

Those of us that have a working knowledge of engineering principles (and basic walking around sense to know why turning the fan on in a room, moving the air, makes you feel a good bit cooler) see the issues with having the energy hog that is an AC unit, and why ventilation is fine.

You have knowledge of engineering principles? OH MAH GAWD! I've always wanted to meet someone intelligent like you! You're like the only one on the internet! HELLO SUPER SMART GUY! ;)
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
This conversation has become tiresome. Whether or not the Gondolas have AC doesn't matter. If it becomes an issue in the future Disney will adapt and address the issue. Until then everyone has beat this dead horse so much it looks like it's been put through a blender at this point.

If you want something to talk about that might be constructive and fun, talk about what the stations might look like.

giphy.gif


My guess is that the stations will probably all be themed to match the area in which they are going to be located.
 

RustySpork

Oscar Mayer Memer
As you tout your faith in engineering, a brief reminder that engineers designed the Titanic, the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, and the Edsel, too.

And to keep @roj2323 happy, here's hoping the stations will have air conditioning, but I kind of doubt they will, since they'll be mostly open on at least one side...

Our friendly neighborhood internet experts can't be convinced because Disney can do no wrong, and they're the smartest people here. Don't worry, you don't have to ask. They'll be happy to tell you all about how much better than you they are.
 

Cosmic Commando

Well-Known Member
Good call.

How about Parisian, regal, stoney, Art Deco and wavey?

Sounds like a modern day Seven Dwarfes... :D
Parisian = International Gateway
Art Deco = DHS
After this, it gets harder...
Stoney = CBR South? Maybe something either like the pool or the PotC queue?
Wavey = AoA/Pop? Something kinda generic to fit both resorts, or tied into the Nemo area, or the station is on the water, after all.
Regal = The only one left would be the new tower, which I believe the theme was called "surprising"? Hmm...

Edit: Awesome job on the Horizons video, Martin!
 

Creathir

Well-Known Member
This conversation has become tiresome. Whether or not the Gondolas have AC doesn't matter. If it becomes an issue in the future Disney will adapt and address the issue. Until then everyone has beat this dead horse so much it looks like it's been put through a blender at this point.

If you want something to talk about that might be constructive and fun, talk about what the stations might look like.

In thinking they may look like this:
ac_outside.jpg


;) jk
 

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