News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner - Every Possible What If ....? Has Been Discussed.

[insert name here]

This is a disaster waiting to happen. Better ride it while you can because it will be shut down after the first death.

Almost 80 posts since joining yesterday? You certainly get around!

 

[Alltid Oavsett]

People seem to be forgetting a key fact here: Disney is a company worth billions of dollars, they are paying people smarter than any of us here to design this. No engineer for a corporation that big is going to finish designing the system, have it start construction, and then go "oh sh*t, I forgot that Florida is hot"

Thank you for the clarification, I feel a little bit calmer now.

 

[Purduevian]

First post, just decided to do some math out on this:
I've heard 8-10 people gondolas so I'll use 9 guests per gondola.
Approximate departure rate 30 seconds, gives us 18 guests/min or 1080 guests per hour (1 bus every 8 mins to each resort)

Looking at the resorts* serviced by room size:
Caribbean Beach Resort: 2112
Art of Animation: 1984
Pop Century: 2880
Total:6976 rooms

Assuming 90% occupancy (I've heard the number before) and 3 guests per room on average: 18835 guests in these three resorts. Now lets say 1/4** of those guests go to either DHS or EPCOT for the day gives us 4709 guests visiting either a park per day. If 1/4 of those stay for a night time show (ROE or F!) and leave immediately after... 2354 guests will be trying to get on the gondola system at one of the parks at one time. This will take 1 hours and 6 minutes to get the last guest on board.

*This does not include people that might take the gondolas from DHS instead of friendship boats from Beach club (865 rooms), Boardwalk Inn (910 rooms), Yacht club (630 rooms), Swan (758 rooms), and Dolphin (1509). Also does not include the new Riviera Resort.
**This is a low estimate because it assumes only 1/4 of guests will go to a park on a given day (many resort guests follow EMH).

 

[danlb_2000]

Ya know this looks like an interesting concept that has been used in sky resorts.... But when you really start to think about it, there are some real problems that I wonder about. 1) it works at a sky resort because the temps are generally darned cold and you are bundled up like an Eskimo... we are talking about having this thing going in Florida where frost bite isn't a problem... How are they going to keep these things cool? While they could leave them open air that would be an issue as people would be able to drop things which was one of the issues when they had a skyride in the park... are they really going to put air conditioners on each gondola? That would be very expensive requiring a unit on every car. 2) what happens when it breaks down? I'm sure anyone that has been on to sky resorts has probably experienced the breakdowns... Here you are going to have the cars spread out over miles of terrain where it is often going to be difficult to get to the cars if/when they breakdown. 3) How do they deal with choke points? In the one drawing they have two resorts feeding a station that then connect to EPCOT... how do they expect to have 2 cars dropping off people at a point that will only have 1 car going out... Assuming all the cars operate at the same speed which is likely you would have 2 car loads of people going in the morning to a point where only 1 car was leaving... This is going to create some big congested spots...

As much as I enjoy riding these types of things I don't see how this make much sense at Disneyworld.

1. There are gondola system like this in climates just as bad, if not worse the Florida and they operate fine without AC. The gondola's will be enclosed but have ventilation, and you won't be in them very long.

2. Someone addresses this early on. These system generally have multiple backup system so they can keep the car moving in the case of most types of failures. Having to evac people from the cars is rare.

3. Not sure exactly what you are getting at with the last point. In theory cars will be entering and leaving from all three directions at the same rate.

 

[danlb_2000]

First post, just decided to do some math out on this:
I've heard 8-10 people gondolas so I'll use 9 guests per gondola.
Approximate departure rate 30 seconds, gives us 18 guests/min or 1080 guests per hour (1 bus every 8 mins to each resort)

Looking at the resorts* serviced by room size:
Caribbean Beach Resort: 2112
Art of Animation: 1984
Pop Century: 2880
Total:6976 rooms

Assuming 90% occupancy (I've heard the number before) and 3 guests per room on average: 18835 guests in these three resorts. Now lets say 1/4** of those guests go to either DHS or EPCOT for the day gives us 4709 guests visiting either a park per day. If 1/4 of those stay for a night time show (ROE or F!) and leave immediately after... 2354 guests will be trying to get on the gondola system at one of the parks at one time. This will take 1 hours and 6 minutes to get the last guest on board.

*This does not include people that might take the gondolas from DHS instead of friendship boats from Beach club (865 rooms), Boardwalk Inn (910 rooms), Yacht club (630 rooms), Swan (758 rooms), and Dolphin (1509). Also does not include the new Riviera Resort.
**This is a low estimate because it assumes only 1/4 of guests will go to a park on a given day (many resort guests follow EMH).

@LiftBlog recently mentioned that Disney is shooting for 5000 per hour.

 

[danlb_2000]

Interesting.. so its true they are getting cable cars. Several months ago there were somewhere (in this forum???) a notice that some executive at Doppelmayr (world's largest cable car manufacturer) spilled the beans at some conference or something like that.

This is not an attraction, it is a transportation. OF COURSE it will have AC and OF COURSE it will be enclosed. These things are really super reliable. These are the same people that build the cable cars in the Alps (think major snow storms) as well as in several Latin american cities (think torrential rain and winds).

Take a look at the video in this link, which is from Doppelmayrs cars in La Paz. https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2014/apr/09/largest-urban-cable-car-la-paz-bolivia

Most gondola system, even those in hot climates, do not have AC and from what we have heard this one will not either.

 

[nickys]

And here we go again

 

[thomas998]

1. There are gondola system like this in climates just as bad, if not worse the Florida and they operate fine without AC. The gondola's will be enclosed but have ventilation, and you won't be in them very long.

I've ridden on these things in hot climates such as Brazil where they use one to take you up a mountain... but that ride is relatively short compared to the map Disney is going for. These things don't fly down the cables so expect you'll be in a car for a fairly long time. If you've ever experienced the monorails at Disneyland where you are stuck in a car with no air and only windows when it is hot out you'll understand it isn't a great place to be.

2. Someone addresses this early on. These system generally have multiple backup system so they can keep the car moving in the case of most types of failures. Having to evac people from the cars is rare.

You can have all the back up systems you want. But eventually you will have the system stop, when it does you will have the potential for guest to be stranded over a difficult to access line several miles long. Should it be the case that the line is down for hours you'll have a nightmare trying to extract people from all the cars. With the monorail you at least had to only worry about being able to access 1 or maybe 2 cars if something happened.. .Here you'll likely have 100 or more.

3. Not sure exactly what you are getting at with the last point. In theory cars will be entering and leaving from all three directions at the same rate.

My point is you have multiple resort lines that meet at a central point that goes to one park destination. If you have two road that go to a highway that becomes one you end up with a bottle neck. That's what you see on their map.

 

[JoeCamel]

I've ridden on these things in hot climates such as Brazil where they use one to take you up a mountain... but that ride is relatively short compared to the map Disney is going for. These things don't fly down the cables so expect you'll be in a car for a fairly long time. If you've ever experienced the monorails at Disneyland where you are stuck in a car with no air and only windows when it is hot out you'll understand it isn't a great place to be.



You can have all the back up systems you want. But eventually you will have the system stop, when it does you will have the potential for guest to be stranded over a difficult to access line several miles long. Should it be the case that the line is down for hours you'll have a nightmare trying to extract people from all the cars. With the monorail you at least had to only worry about being able to access 1 or maybe 2 cars if something happened.. .Here you'll likely have 100 or more.



My point is you have what appears to be a line going from Caribbean beach to a central point, another line going from the Boardwalk to the same central point and then the central point also hitting EPCOT.... In the morning people from the hotels aren't likely to be trying to get to the other hotel so everyone hitting that central point will be wanting EPCOT which will have a single line trying to deal with the load from two lines. That's a recipe for a lot of people waiting in line at the central point.

Most here are too polite to say it but I am not. Each and everyone of your points has been brought up many times before. I lose patience seeing the same points raised over and over again and being answered by experts that have experience with these systems.

 

[JoeCamel]

Most gondola system, even those in hot climates, do not have AC and from what we have heard this one will not either.

You have the patience of JOB

 

[DAR1974]

It seems like something to try once at least

 

[flynnibus]

First post, just decided to do some math out on this:
I've heard 8-10 people gondolas so I'll use 9 guests per gondola.
Approximate departure rate 30 seconds, gives us 18 guests/min or 1080 guests per hour (1 bus every 8 mins to each resort)

Your dispatch rate is off by 2-3x most likely.

 

[thomas998]

First post, just decided to do some math out on this:
I've heard 8-10 people gondolas so I'll use 9 guests per gondola.
Approximate departure rate 30 seconds, gives us 18 guests/min or 1080 guests per hour (1 bus every 8 mins to each resort)

Looking at the resorts* serviced by room size:
Caribbean Beach Resort: 2112
Art of Animation: 1984
Pop Century: 2880
Total:6976 rooms

Assuming 90% occupancy (I've heard the number before) and 3 guests per room on average: 18835 guests in these three resorts. Now lets say 1/4** of those guests go to either DHS or EPCOT for the day gives us 4709 guests visiting either a park per day. If 1/4 of those stay for a night time show (ROE or F!) and leave immediately after... 2354 guests will be trying to get on the gondola system at one of the parks at one time. This will take 1 hours and 6 minutes to get the last guest on board.

*This does not include people that might take the gondolas from DHS instead of friendship boats from Beach club (865 rooms), Boardwalk Inn (910 rooms), Yacht club (630 rooms), Swan (758 rooms), and Dolphin (1509). Also does not include the new Riviera Resort.
**This is a low estimate because it assumes only 1/4 of guests will go to a park on a given day (many resort guests follow EMH).

They minute people see that the line to use the gondola is a 1 hour wait to get on board is the minute those people head to the other form of transportation.

What I want to know is what speed will these things move at... Is the ride on a gondola going to be agonizingly slow?

 

[drizgirl]

They minute people see that the line to use the gondola is a 1 hour wait to get on board is the minute those people head to the other form of transportation.

What I want to know is what speed will these things move at... Is the ride on a gondola going to be agonizingly slow?

Maybe they could have a nice line of Minnie Vans close by?

 

[AquaDuck]

Wow can't believe the gondolas wont have A/C

 

[Maeryk]

They minute people see that the line to use the gondola is a 1 hour wait to get on board is the minute those people head to the other form of transportation.

What I want to know is what speed will these things move at... Is the ride on a gondola going to be agonizingly slow?

We don't know the exact specs for the Disney implementation.. but here's the Whistler P2P system.. 7.mumble kilometers in 11 minutes.. they don't exactly poke around, especially considering you are doing a straight line above traffic, turns, etc.

 

[GCTales]

I swear I have been here before... Deja vu.....

That sense that you have already read this argument [strike]4 times before[/strike]

Correction... 15 times before...

 

[danlb_2000]

I've ridden on these things in hot climates such as Brazil where they use one to take you up a mountain... but that ride is relatively short compared to the map Disney is going for. These things don't fly down the cables so expect you'll be in a car for a fairly long time. If you've ever experienced the monorails at Disneyland where you are stuck in a car with no air and only windows when it is hot out you'll understand it isn't a great place to be.

You can have all the back up systems you want. But eventually you will have the system stop, when it does you will have the potential for guest to be stranded over a difficult to access line several miles long. Should it be the case that the line is down for hours you'll have a nightmare trying to extract people from all the cars. With the monorail you at least had to only worry about being able to access 1 or maybe 2 cars if something happened.. .Here you'll likely have 100 or more.

My point is you have multiple resort lines that meet at a central point that goes to one park destination. If you have two road that go to a highway that becomes one you end up with a bottle neck. That's what you see on their map.

The time in the Gondola will be short. We have done the calculations in this thread and each leg is 5 minutes or less.

Based on the backup systems that have been described by @Lift Blog who knows a lot about this system, there should be no scenario that would shut down all three legs at the same time, so even in the rare event that the line has to stop they will only have to evac one line and I am sure they are working out how to do that. I have never been stuck on a monorail, but I imagine they get pretty uncomfortable when they loose power, so this will be nothing new.

You actually have multiple resorts going to multiple parks and visa-versa so it don't see it being a huge problem. Yes, I agree that there could be some bottle necks at busy times, but that's no different then busses, and the gondola's will have the physiological benefit that the line will be constantly moving instead of having to just stand there and wonder when the next bus will show up.

 

[danlb_2000]

Most here are too polite to say it but I am not. Each and everyone of your points has been brought up many times before. I lose patience seeing the same points raised over and over again and being answered by experts that have experience with these systems.

I think newcomers come into threads like this and think they are brining up things no one has thought or talked about.

 

[danlb_2000]

I swear I have been here before... Deja vu.....

That sense that you have already read this argument [strike]4 times before[/strike]

Correction... 15 times before...

I lost track of how many times we have had the "Avatar doesn't belong in AK" discussion.