News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[eddie104]

I have always assumed that WDW's lack of any mass transit with rails just meant that WDW wasn't willing to spend on rail, monorail, light right, any rail. One could debate endlessly the merits of any one of those options over the other, but they are all more expensive then busses. They long ago lost sight that people think of the parks, resorts, and monorails when they think of WDW. They do not think of Parks, Resorts, and Busses. But perhaps the Gondola will prove to be a more enticing system? I look forward to seeing them in action.

It had more to with the county taking action on putting in a mass transit system that included a form of rail.

 

[GoofGoof]

Here in Houston we have added 3 light rail lines. Since they run at grade they are subject to traffic, floods and constant crashes with cars, people and bikes. To try to get cars to stop crashing into the light rail cars they have adjusted all the intersection signals so that cars are stopped in all directions way before the train arrives and way after it leaves the intersection. Besides taking away traveling lanes and almost all left turns on the routes, traffic barely flows because of the signal timing for the trains. I can only imagine how much worse an issue the light rail trains would have with cars, traveling around Disney with distracted drivers who barely know where they are going. I hope they do not add light rail unless it is completely separated from car traffic, with overpasses and its own path.

I’ve been to Houston quite a few times and frequently visited one of the buildings directly on the line. It does mess with traffic pretty bad.

The rub with building overpasses and a dedicated path is that those are the expensive parts. Light rail in cities is often a cheaper alternative to elevated or underground because it utilizes existing roads. At WDW it could work since it’s not an urban center so there are limited overpasses needed.

 

[Grimley1968]

Here in Houston we have added 3 light rail lines. Since they run at grade they are subject to traffic, floods and constant crashes with cars, people and bikes. To try to get cars to stop crashing into the light rail cars they have adjusted all the intersection signals so that cars are stopped in all directions way before the train arrives and way after it leaves the intersection. Besides taking away traveling lanes and almost all left turns on the routes, traffic barely flows because of the signal timing for the trains. I can only imagine how much worse an issue the light rail trains would have with cars, traveling around Disney with distracted drivers who barely know where they are going. I hope they do not add light rail unless it is completely separated from car traffic, with overpasses and its own path.

As much as I enjoyed San Diego’s light rail system a few years ago for its ease for tourists like me to get to attractions, I could tell automotive traffic sacrificed some ease and speed at crossings. It was existing rail, but regular train traffic hadn’t been on it in years and drivers had gotten used to the lack of trains by the time the light rail began operations. Overpasses would definitely have been better than those crossings, but the system was shoehorned into surface streets.

 

[begood524]

Pretty much that.

The gondolas were born and based upon a cheaper way of linking the CBR and POP areas to Epcot than canal. Taking the system into the IG is cheaper manpower-wise longer term. Linking to DHS was a by-product of developing the original route.

Speaking of the Skyliner's origins, will we get an Ultimate Tribute to the Skyliner at some point????

 

[IMDREW]

Oh, it was. It would have served the Venetian, Persian and Asian. And Tomorrowland. And all versions of EPCOT. And the DMGM Studios and onwards.

And EPCOT to LBV.

And south from EPCOT to what’s today the CBR.

It just needed to be built out properly and maintained.

Venetian, Persian and Asian sound pretty awesome! Why haven't they gone through with more monorail MK resorts like these?

 

[Portable Hole]

Venetian, Persian and Asian sound pretty awesome! Why haven't they gone through with more monorail MK resorts like these?

The plot for the Asian resort was taken by the Grand Floridian. The Persian resort was to go north of the Contemporary and would have involved a more complex monorail layout that included a station/entrance in Tomorrowland, similar to Disneyland’s. The site for the Venetian/Mediterranean resort between the TTC and Contemporary is still vacant, but the land there is apparently unsuitable for building.

 

[marni1971]

. The site for the Venetian/Mediterranean resort between the TTC and Contemporary is still vacant, but the land there is apparently unsuitable for building.

Won’t stop them from possibly trying again

 

[nickys]

Won’t stop them from possibly trying again

Didn’t we see a permit for drilling or something on that site, relatively recently (last fall or sometime)? @danlb_2000?

 

[Creathir]

Won’t stop them from possibly trying again

“New Venetian resort confirmed by Disney insider and will feature its own monorail station!”

Coming soon to a site which shall not be named

 

[Walt d]

You have one line going from AoA to a transfer station. One line going from Caribbean Beach to the same transfer station and that transfer station only connects to the two resorts and Hollywood Studios. Now you might argue that some people are going to stay on get on the line that goes to Caribbean Beach so they can go to Epcot... But on a day when Epcot opens late and Hollywood Studio has an early opening you would really only have people going from Caribbean to the transfer station to then go Hollywood and all the people leaving AoA would also be doing the same. At those times you have a problem. You are probably going to also have a problem if Epcot opens earliest because then everyone will be going from AoA to Epcot giving full loads of people to hit the point in Caribbean where you are going to have guests wanting to get on and go Epcot as well... Unclear if the gongola point at Caribbean will require people getting off one car and onto an other or not from the maps they've shown... if they don't have to get off and switch cars then the people at Caribbean will be a bit like the people at Grand Floridian are sometimes on the monorail loop where you have lines forming because their are few seats available in the morning because the monorail has already stopped at two other resorts before it gets to yours... Will mean lines of Caribbean visitor waiting for a free spot if they have no gondola switch... if they have one then the lines will be filled with both Caribbean visitors and AoA people.

Don't get me wrong I was sad when they pulled the skyride from the parks... but I just don't see this as being a great solution. In fact it will really only create more problems at the front gate, assuming they don't cut back on some of the other transportation options you've now just got more people getting dropped off at the already congested front gate to any park this system connects to... Would be nice if they would try to expand the parks instead of the system that gets people into the parks.

Im thinking moving side walks, next

 

[MisterPenguin]

Won’t stop them from possibly trying again

Second wink...

That’s a very very very good point.

 

[Nubs70]

Roof membrane work continues at POP. Doppelmyer crews.were.up in mechanicals and appeared.to be running checklists. Will POP line turn today?

 

[marni1971]

Second wink...

Do you just track everything I ever say??!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Do you just track everything I ever say??!

Have you not seen the rumor tracker?!

I do make note if you hint at something that may come. Otherwise, I have really good recall with regard to everything I read, otherwise I wouldn't have remembered I previously made a note of it.

It's a gift. And a curse.

 

[nickys]

Do you just track everything I ever say??!

Didn’t you know it’s in the forum rules?

 

[danlb_2000]

Didn’t we see a permit for drilling or something on that site, relatively recently (last fall or sometime)? @danlb_2000?

I have a vague memory of this, but I cannot find it.

 

[nickys]

I have a vague memory of this, but I cannot find it.

No, nor could I when I searched. It probably came up in a thread about something else, like a walking path from GF or WL. Or the “Reflections” Resort maybe....

At least I’m not the only one who thinks this has come up before though!

 

[Bender123]

I have a vague memory of this, but I cannot find it.

I swear they do this every couple of years...That is a valuable piece of land and WDW wont ever let it go. I would say it ranked up with "Height balloon testing at River Country!!!"...but that actually happened...so who knows?

One of these decades they will figure out how to dry that plot out and stick a hotel there...It was slotted for it back in the days that the GF was the Asian hotel and was just a big square of land. Short of a Horizons sized sinkhole, that land has never really been an "if", but a "when"...Sooner or later an engineer will have a solution.

 

[mmascari]

So the Dolphins plan to spend $3M on this project and Disney is spending 100X that? I know that’s an exaggeration and the Miami one sounds like only 1 station and a round trip ride vs 5 stations at WDW, but it still seems way less expensive.

It has to have at least 2 stations, even if you can't get off. Don't want guests whipping around 180 at full line speed.

Even those stations aren't the same as the Disney stations, probably just off the shelf. While the Disney ones are off the shelf with an entire building built around them. The route probably doesn't have to deal with anything special underneath it either. Just a sight seeing trip across the facility.

I hope they do not add light rail unless it is completely separated from car traffic, with overpasses and its own path.

That's really the root of all the options. Before you decide anything else, first you have decide if the transportation is going to leverage existing roads and mix with traffic at any point, even if it's just at crossings. If you decide that's the option, you can pick anything that can travel on that type of path. If you decide that there can be no interaction, now you have to figure out how to make the crossings without interacting.

My opinion is that they want the second option for new transportation, things that don't interact at any point with anything that's not part of the system. This means every crossing needs to go over or under the other item. Either raise/lower the existing road or raise/lower the new transporting option for the crossing. This makes all the grade level options harder, since you need to build grade level over and underpasses. Elevated options are easier, since they're already elevated. This also means elevated options have more route options, since the crossings hardly matter.

The gondola is an easy option of this. No interaction with a dedicated travel path, limited footprint on the ground allowing routes that pass over whatever mostly. Forced to travel in straight lines, requiring a station for turns is a big restriction.

A monorail has some of those too, but not others, just a different set of trade offs. One isn't "better" than the other, just different options.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

Light rail refers to lighter weight trains (well, light compared to subway trains and freight trains). Lots of medium to big cities have built them in the past few decades because they're so much easier to build than subways. Except for the fact that you still have to deal with rights of way, it's a pretty feasible system even on terrain like Florida's. In cities with existing but otherwise unused conventional rails (and their right of way), light rail is a fantastic solution. San Diego has a really nice system that uses some previously abandoned rail. I still think a gondola system is much cheaper than a rail system that would have to be built from scratch, though.

Wouldn't the old Ft Wilderness Railroad be considered light rail as opposed to the heavier WDW Railroad at Magic Kingdom or Monorail System... No wait that was just poorly built. my bad. LOL

Would be nice though to have some sort of Transit system that would tie all 5 major areas of WDW together. MK, EPCOT, DHS, AK, DS. To be able to traverse all five areas without having to change vehicles. Too bad the Monorail wasn't built out properly in the various abandoned phases after EPCOT. I'd even settle for a system that could at least tie TTC to DHS, AK and DS then transfer to MK or EPCOT from TTC via monorail. Of course it would be a bonus if the could make DS a secure zone like the Parks. So single day bag checks could actually be a thing.