New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[nickys]

So let’s just say-10% have DAS. When the guest utilization for LL is 70% is that the DAS user and thier party it just the DAS user?

The whole party.

 

[homerdance]

With enough changes and reducing the number of guests using it they could have something still going but it wouldn't really resemble FP or FP+ anymore at that point. FP+ wasn't sustainable because everyone had access despite there not being enough capacity to support those numbers. It also heavily favored people that knew the system inside and out. It caused a TON of complaints due to the excessive planning required and often completely screwed over those that were not familiar with the system.


Sure, the 7 am part stinks for a lot of people but it wasn't really reasonable to expect people to know what hour of the day they wanted to get on a specific ride months in advanced of their vacation. Also, people always have the option to just not get up at 7. You might miss one ride doing that and thankfully, once they cut back on the number of DAS abusers, that will be even less likely to happen if you sleep in. If you do miss it, get in standby where Disney has said they will provide other accommodations for those that can't wait the entire line.


Someone offering excuses for people using DAS when they don't need it because they don't want to pay for G+ is letting them avoid personal responsibility which is all I was talking about. As for the rest, yes, Disney has to offer reasonable accommodations and I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The point is that reasonable does not include DAS level of access for every last person to enter the parks with any sort of disability. It is reserved for those that NEED that level of accommodation. Everyone else will get alternative options to help navigate their needs.


So, someone could schedule their entire trip, hour by hour, 30-60 days before showing up for vacation, but they are unable to push selections in G+ to times that work for them day of? Who would fall in that category that isn't still covered by DAS?


Sure, but in order for the math to work on the numbers Len has reported, a lot of people on DAS are getting a lot more than 5 and in many cases.

Yeah, unless you knew and did the planning FP+ sucked. But if you knew it was nice. 180/60 day planning was ridiculous though.

I agree with everything you said except the last few. G+ from my experience is like playing a slot machine version of bop it that if I mess up I will ruin the day. Not to mention trying to do it on your phone using a browser that seems like it is from 2000 in a cave. Slow, unstable web pages that you hope load and give you the results you want.

To counter your “abuse” point on though, If you contact Disney and say what accommodation can you make for me, this is my situation, and they offer DAS, I fail to see how thats abuse. Do you need all day every park LL? Maybe not but if they come back and say this is the only thing we offer not sure that’s on you. If you are calling in and claiming you have some hidden problem and you don’t, f you, but if you need accommodation I personally think that is ok.

But, if they say this is how we are going to accommodate you now since we had to many DAS users, that’s should be fine as long as the accommodation allows you reasonable access. I don’t get the vitriol on both sides of this who blame DAS for all the ills of line waits or those who won’t be able to go to Disney without DAS without knowing what the new system will be for them.

 

[ditzee]

Yeah, unless you knew and did the planning FP+ sucked. But if you knew it was nice. 180/60 day planning was ridiculous though.

I agree with everything you said except the last few. G+ from my experience is like playing a slot machine version of bop it that if I mess up I will ruin the day. Not to mention trying to do it on your phone using a browser that seems like it is from 2000 in a cave. Slow, unstable web pages that you hope load and give you the results you want.

To counter your “abuse” point on though, If you contact Disney and say what accommodation can you make for me, this is my situation, and they offer DAS, I fail to see how thats abuse. Do you need all day every park LL? Maybe not but if they come back and say this is the only thing we offer not sure that’s on you. If you are calling in and claiming you have some hidden problem and you don’t, f you, but if you need accommodation I personally think that is ok.

But, if they say this is how we are going to accommodate you now since we had to many DAS users, that’s should be fine as long as the accommodation allows you reasonable access. I don’t get the vitriol on both sides of this who blame DAS for all the ills of line waits or those who won’t be able to go to Disney without DAS without knowing what the new system will be for them.

I think the vitriol comes from Disney's DAS website stating:

"Learn how this service supports Guests who, due to a developmental disability like autism or similar, are unable to wait in a conventional queue for an extended period of time."​

There are many people with disabilities other than this who have had DAS in the past. Some have been told that this is just an example of a disability that will get DAS. Until May 20th, we won't know for sure - at least according to the DAS CM I spoke to today.

 

[nickys]

ILL usage was being estimated as high as 75% of the total usage also

Something isn’t right

That’s where Len’s team of number crunchers came in. From observation of the blue light entries plus those that followed w/o tapping in, they determined that around 70% of guests using the LL lane were DAS users and their parties. Now this was for a popular but not top tier ride (HM I think).

And apparently that agrees with conversations he’s had.

 

[RamblinWreck]

To my mind, contrasting FP+ with Genie+ is a hint about the way things are likely to go in the future (Reservations, reservations, and more reservations, is my prediction. Which I’m neither happy nor sad about, I don’t particularly love or hate reservations at this point.)

It’s incredible to remember that FP+ was frigging available to everyone in the park! I find myself forgetting that already. And it worked relatively well for most people. Not perfectly for everyone, but relatively well for most people. While Genie is often a hot mess with limited availability with just a fraction of the people actually using it. I think part of that speaks to the power of reservations. Genie+ not having a time choice element included is a huge difference, in my opinion. That would only make sense if availability was quite high.

For most people, FP+ didn’t work well at all.

It’s the worst thing Disney has ever done.

 

[Happyday]

What I liked about the FP system was you had to physically be there… you couldn’t reserve from your hotel room. That meant as long as you arrived in the park before like 11 or noon, you could still get a FP for a popular ride. It wasn’t a gamble and who can use their iPhone app the best.

I was never a fan of FP+ but I also don’t see it as being unsustainable- it could still exist easily.

I don’t think 40% of guests on any given day have DAS. That just seems like a crazy high number. 8% seems much more accurate.

That includes the people traveling with the DAS individual. So 10%DAS users plus their 'family' of 4+ sometimes adds up I am not proficient enough to do the math to figure out how a percentage but... a DAS guest plus 4+ guests with them is definitely more than 8% that is where some of the issue is.

 

[RamblinWreck]

That’s where Len’s team of number crunchers came in. From observation of the blue light entries plus those that followed w/o tapping in, they determined that around 70% of guests using the LL lane were DAS users and their parties. Now this was for a popular but not top tier ride (HM I think).

And apparently that agrees with conversations he’s had.

I don’t think this description is accurate.

He said he wasn’t looking at light colors.

Also, there’s no such thing as someone entering a LL without tapping in.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I don’t think this description is accurate.

He said he wasn’t looking at light colors.

Also, there’s no such thing as someone entering a LL without tapping in.

Correct me if I’m wrong but the only way to know is by “guessing” if they are DAS correct? Which is honestly kinda creepy to me.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Correct me if I’m wrong but the only way to know is by “guessing” if they are DAS correct? Which is honestly kinda creepy to me.

No, it was strictly based on the number of people entering the LL queue

The entire estimate hinged on how many G+ reservations they thought Disney was distributing for the ride per hour. And the reason for estimating 300 was not given.

 

[Brian]

Correct me if I’m wrong but the only way to know is by “guessing” if they are DAS correct? Which is honestly kinda creepy to me.

The enrolled DAS guest must tap in before anyone else in their party. It turns blue regardless of whether they have a valid entitlement or not. If it is valid, the CM sees the guest's name and picture on screen and has to tap the screen to admit the enrolled guest. It then turns green, and any other members of that guest's party can now tap in and they will turn green without intervention.

By observing the interactions between guests in the line to scan, you can ascertain which guests are together, and then use that information to make a fairly accurate estimate of how many DAS guests there are versus Genie+/ILL.

 

[nickys]

I obviously misunderstood then.

BUT the reality is that for whatever reason, Disney thinks DAS is unsustainable in it’s current form. Debating the why and how will be an endless endeavour.

What really matters is what happens next. And from reports nothing will change until May 20th. Up until then it seems they aren’t changing anything.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That’s where Len’s team of number crunchers came in. From observation of the blue light entries plus those that followed w/o tapping in, they determined that around 70% of guests using the LL lane were DAS users and their parties. Now this was for a popular but not top tier ride (HM I think).

And apparently that agrees with conversations he’s had.

Correct…I was quoting him without quoting him (I don’t want to get sued or let him think I’m a sleeper agent for Birnbaums )

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, unless you knew and did the planning FP+ sucked. But if you knew it was nice. 180/60 day planning was ridiculous though.

I agree with everything you said except the last few. G+ from my experience is like playing a slot machine version of bop it that if I mess up I will ruin the day. Not to mention trying to do it on your phone using a browser that seems like it is from 2000 in a cave. Slow, unstable web pages that you hope load and give you the results you want.

To counter your “abuse” point on though, If you contact Disney and say what accommodation can you make for me, this is my situation, and they offer DAS, I fail to see how thats abuse. Do you need all day every park LL? Maybe not but if they come back and say this is the only thing we offer not sure that’s on you. If you are calling in and claiming you have some hidden problem and you don’t, f you, but if you need accommodation I personally think that is ok.

But, if they say this is how we are going to accommodate you now since we had to many DAS users, that’s should be fine as long as the accommodation allows you reasonable access. I don’t get the vitriol on both sides of this who blame DAS for all the ills of line waits or those who won’t be able to go to Disney without DAS without knowing what the new system will be for them.

I think “abuse” is harsh and there’s a different label/category for the use.

Getting DAS when you can use the queues out of convenience or to avoid fees is straight up abuse…full stop.

Qualified use is not “abuse”…but it’s an operational problem because having VQ access on all rides allows the user to then use other standby or short wait rides during the queue - which is not how say guardians or tron works. That’s a virtual wait to ENTER the queue and why it’s a boarding group.
So going on other things during the DAS wait puts more strain on the rest of the system…lengthens the queues and makes others change habits and choices.
But it’s not “abuse”…just a bad side effect of the system.

If every one ate or shopped during their DAS wait…this wouldn’t be a problem. Obviously that isn’t whats happening.

But again…it’s all due to capacity they have not provided…
Spent 12 years tweaking prices on a daily basis when they could have built enough B-C-D to solve most of the problem

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I obviously misunderstood then.

BUT the reality is that for whatever reason, Disney thinks DAS is unsustainable in it’s current form. Debating the why and how will be an endless endeavour.

What really matters is what happens next. And from reports nothing will change until May 20th. Up until then it seems they aren’t changing anything.

Correct…but saying “until then” is 23 days away…so the discussion isn’t hypothetical at this point.

The problem with this thread is it became yet another battle line and people are way to hyperbolic. It breeds suspicion and mistrust.

 

[Happyday]

That’s where Len’s team of number crunchers came in. From observation of the blue light entries plus those that followed w/o tapping in, they determined that around 70% of guests using the LL lane were DAS users and their parties. Now this was for a popular but not top tier ride (HM I think).

And apparently that agrees with conversations he’s had.

I am confused,when we used DAS everyone that traveled with the DAS individual also had to scan in so I would think they would have some numbers to run on this.
That being said I have a feeling they do and that is part of the reason for some of the changes.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Qualified use is not “abuse”…but it’s an operational problem because having VQ access on all rides allows the user to then use other standby or short wait rides during the queue - which is not how say guardians or tron works. That’s a virtual wait to ENTER the queue and why it’s a boarding group.
So going on other things during the DAS wait puts more strain on the rest of the system…lengthens the queues and makes others change habits and choices.
But it’s not “abuse”…just a bad side effect of the system.

But the discussion has been that the problem is the lightning lane use, not the standby use while waiting for the lightning lane (aside from that being an incentive for people to actually abuse and lie to get the DAS). The discussion hasn't centered, nor has the data centered, on DAS users causing a problem when entering short standby queues while they wait for their DAS return.

 

[Happyday]

ILL usage was being estimated as high as 75% of the total usage also

Something isn’t right

I think they are including the people that join with the DAS individual. They were allowed up to 6 guests and from what I have read here that was just a "suggestion" CM were given the ability to 'over ride' that #

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

And the reason for estimating 300 was not given.

Insider information about how many g+ reservations are allocated every 5 minutes.

 

[ditzee]

I obviously misunderstood then.

BUT the reality is that for whatever reason, Disney thinks DAS is unsustainable in it’s current form. Debating the why and how will be an endless endeavour.

What really matters is what happens next. And from reports nothing will change until May 20th. Up until then it seems they aren’t changing anything.

The DAS CM told me today when I was registering, that nothing will be released until May 20th. Don't know who would have insider info to share, so I'm going with what I was told.

 

[Vacationeer]

40% of guests don't didn't have DAS, but I think 40% of guests were utilizing DAS with the up to 6x party multiplier. So if 8-10 percent were granted DAS, the average party size including the individual requiring accommodation was 4-5 people.

Does it go further than just the ratio of guests? The percent DAS/nonDAS in any given line is also impacted by how many attractions are attempted through each group on average. Maybe a math wiz can help here.

Example (not real data) - say 30% of park guests on average are linked to a DAS pass (8% are holders with avg 3ppl also attached). On average this group is also accomplishing 25% more lined attractions than their counterparts. The result could be that this 30% of guests is making up closer to 40% of an average line.

I understand guests with more severe disabilities commonly do a below average amount of lined attractions with their party vs the average guest. But there are also many common conditions where a DAS party was not limited differently than average nonDAS standby group. Some people are limited; what ratio are not limited? This is not to compare to most aggressive able-bodied/minded guests going commando through the park, rather the limits of just typical average guests that cannot burn the candle at both ends. What is the difference in how they can maximize the park vs not limited DAS party? Who is averaging more and why. What affects are these groups having on each other. Etc.

When Genie+ was released Oct 2021, DAS went digital through MDE. Improved data. Now more than ever they are seeing who is going where and all the favorable things attached to those accounts. When I think about what was added to DAS in late 2021, the ease of requesting return times digitally and pre-registering from home for 2 pre-selects encouraged guests to accept giving WDW more data and more accurate data.