New 350 room DVC tower coming to Disneyland Hotel

[alex0c]

Well, despite repeated claims that no more DVC units would ever be built at Disneyland due to restrictions with the Anaheim city government, Disney has filed plans for a 12-story, 350 room DVC tower at the Disneyland Hotel.

They say the design will blend in with the other towers. I am surprised at the scale-- today there are only 71 DVC units at Disneyland, so the inventory will be going up sixfold. Based on the insane resale prices for the Grand Californian, I'm sure they'll make a fortune.

Disneyland takes first step toward building 12-story Disney Vacation Club timeshare tower

Disneyland submitted an application on Friday, Nov. 22, to the city of Anaheim for a conceptual development review of a new 350-room Disney Vacation Club tower.

www.ocregister.com

 

[TP2000]

Kind of surprised but not surprised.

A few years ago before he went into retirement Al Lutz said they wanted to build a "Tomorrowland Tower" for the fourth tower of the Disneyland Hotel, putting it just west of the ESPNZone back then. It sounds like they have returned to that old concept and turned it into a DVC thing.

As some of us who had heard a few things from good sources said in another thread, that fourth hotel plan for Downtown Disney's west side is dead, dead, dead. That ship sailed in 2018 and it's not coming back. This proves it.

 

[TP2000]

Okay, this is almost creepy...

I just Googled "Al Lutz Tomorrowland Tower Hotel" and the third item was an old Miceage column from June 26th, 2012. It wasn't a few years ago, it was over seven years ago. And here's what Mr. Lutz said then about the plans for a 4th tower at the Disneyland Hotel...

"We’ve told you in the past about the solid proposals to build a new hotel and arrival complex in the East Esplanade shuttle bus loading area, as well as a fourth DVC tower at the Disneyland Hotel slotted for the vacant land just west of the ESPNZone. But again, TDA and Burbank will be looking at the numbers coming out of DCA through the rest of this year before either of those plans gets the green light."

Which tells us that there was an earlier column that fleshed out the 4th hotel tower and it was in fact a DVC concept even back then. Who knew?!?

 

[Phroobar]

Okay, this is almost creepy...

I just Googled "Al Lutz Tomorrowland Tower Hotel" and the third item was an old Miceage column from June 26th, 2012. It wasn't a few years ago, it was over seven years ago. And here's what Mr. Lutz said then about the plans for a 4th tower at the Disneyland Hotel...

"We’ve told you in the past about the solid proposals to build a new hotel and arrival complex in the East Esplanade shuttle bus loading area, as well as a fourth DVC tower at the Disneyland Hotel slotted for the vacant land just west of the ESPNZone. But again, TDA and Burbank will be looking at the numbers coming out of DCA through the rest of this year before either of those plans gets the green light."

Which tells us that there was an earlier column that fleshed out the 4th hotel tower and it was in fact a DVC concept even back then. Who knew?!?

How do we know Al Lutz wrote that? It could be that Troy guy for all we know.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Timeshare units are a lot different than a Hotel. Presold DVC units pay for the construction, so really no risk to Disney's shareholders. Also the amount of Labor to deal with DVC units is a lot less than a Hotel.

 

[Mac Tonight]

How do we know Al Lutz wrote that? It could be that Troy guy for all we know.

Wait, I thought the "Neighbor Lady" wrote the articles??

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Kind of surprised but not surprised.

A few years ago before he went into retirement Al Lutz said they wanted to build a "Tomorrowland Tower" for the fourth tower of the Disneyland Hotel, putting it just west of the ESPNZone back then. It sounds like they have returned to that old concept and turned it into a DVC thing.

As some of us who had heard a few things from good sources said in another thread, that fourth hotel plan for Downtown Disney's west side is dead, dead, dead. That ship sailed in 2018 and it's not coming back. This proves it.

Well I don’t see the “told you so” angle here.

Disney wanted a Hotel...didn’t get the deal they wanted...

So they building DVC and make me pay (all of us do...)
They win...and end up getting pretty close to what they want

 

[Mouse Trap]

Could someone explain how Disneyland is bypassing this:

http://library.amlegal.com/nxt/gate...0$vid=amlegal:anaheim_ca$anc=JD_Chapter18.114, under 18.114.050:

Up to one hundred fifty (150) of the five thousand six hundred (5,600) guest rooms may be permitted as Vacation Ownership Resort units; additional guest rooms may be designated Vacation Ownership Resort units, subject to a Conditional Use Permit. All Vacation Ownership Resort Units shall be in conformance with Section 18.114.120 (Requirements for Vacation Ownership Resorts).

 

[Darkbeer1]

Getting a CUP is not that hard, all you have to do is have the City Council approve it....

 

[TP2000]

Well I don’t see the “told you so” angle here.

Disney wanted a Hotel...didn’t get the deal they wanted...

So they building DVC and make me pay (all of us do...)
They win...and end up getting pretty close to what they want

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply there was a "told you so" angle here at all.

It's just proof that the 4th hotel in that location really is as dead as Disney says it is. And it's not coming back anytime soon.

I just find it interesting that a DVC tower connected to the Disneyland Hotel was planned for this spot as far back as 2012 and Al Lutz talked about it. We all talked about it a bit back then because it was noteworthy, which is why I remembered it.

They had to kill the 4th hotel in that spot, so they resurrected the old plans to build a 4th tower for DVC at the Disneyland Hotel instead. What's old is new again!

 

[Mike730]

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply there was a "told you so" angle here at all.

It's just proof that the 4th hotel in that location really is as dead as Disney says it is. And it's not coming back anytime soon.

I just find it interesting that a DVC tower connected to the Disneyland Hotel was planned for this spot as far back as 2012 and Al Lutz talked about it. We all talked about it a bit back then because it was noteworthy, which is why I remembered it.

They had to kill the 4th hotel in that spot, so they resurrected the old plans to build a 4th tower for DVC at the Disneyland Hotel instead. What's old is new again!

From the article: "The DVC tower project area is located on a grassy area between South Walnut Street and the Disneyland Hotel’s Frontier Tower, swimming pool and convention center. Construction would remove an existing laundry facility."

Sounds like this a different location, no?

 

[TP2000]

From the article: "The DVC tower project area is located on a grassy area between South Walnut Street and the Disneyland Hotel’s Frontier Tower, swimming pool and convention center. Construction would remove an existing laundry facility."

Sounds like this a different location, no?

Yes, quite different. I think this is back where the old Fantasy Waters aquacade used to be.

Let me go catch the tea kettle and pour, and I'll get to Googling!

 

[TP2000]

So it sounds like they will be putting the DVC tower on the far perimeter of Disneyland property. Here's the tower site roughly blocked out in red from one of Bioreconstruct's excellent aerials taken a few months ago.

And then zooming in closer on just the Disneyland Hotel grounds....

It's obvious they are placing the DVC tower there to be available for at least a 50 year run. The Disneyland Hotel, in my humble opinion, is not in it for the long haul any longer. They might be able to get 5 to 10 more years out of the 2011 refurbishment that was desperately needed, but I think it's a hotel that is fading fast despite its vast charm and history. Especially with several new 4 Diamond luxury hotels about to open nearby in 2020, the Disneyland Hotel's days as a viable business are numbered.

But whatever they do with the Disneyland Hotel in the 2020's (demolition and full rebuild, hopefully), the DVC Tower slotted on the extreme west perimeter of Disneyland Resort property can weather the construction winds of the 2020's and still be part of whatever lodging complex replaces the Disneyland Hotel towers and grounds.

This should be fun to watch play out, from the aesthetic design of the DVC tower through construction in the early 20's!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to imply there was a "told you so" angle here at all.

It's just proof that the 4th hotel in that location really is as dead as Disney says it is. And it's not coming back anytime soon.

I just find it interesting that a DVC tower connected to the Disneyland Hotel was planned for this spot as far back as 2012 and Al Lutz talked about it. We all talked about it a bit back then because it was noteworthy, which is why I remembered it.

They had to kill the 4th hotel in that spot, so they resurrected the old plans to build a 4th tower for DVC at the Disneyland Hotel instead. What's old is new again!

Ok...I agree

They were sandwiching more meat in there...no matter want.

But I know that people will parse/complain about how it’s not a “real” hotel.

It’s actually better than a hotel. DVC always is. The customers pay the expenses...and all those that claim they won’t buy it...crumble and do.

 

[Mouse Trap]

So it sounds like they will be putting the DVC tower on the far perimeter of Disneyland property. Here's the tower site roughly blocked out in red from one of Bioreconstruct's excellent aerials taken a few months ago.

View attachment 428181

And then zooming in closer on just the Disneyland Hotel grounds....

View attachment 428182

It's obvious they are placing the DVC tower there to be available for at least a 50 year run. The Disneyland Hotel, in my humble opinion, is not in it for the long haul any longer. They might be able to get 5 to 10 more years out of the 2011 refurbishment that was desperately needed, but I think it's a hotel that is fading fast despite its vast charm and history. Especially with several new 4 Diamond luxury hotels about to open nearby in 2020, the Disneyland Hotel's days as a viable business are numbered.

But whatever they do with the Disneyland Hotel in the 2020's (demolition and full rebuild, hopefully), the DVC Tower slotted on the extreme west perimeter of Disneyland Resort property can weather the construction winds of the 2020's and still be part of whatever lodging complex replaces the Disneyland Hotel towers and grounds.

This should be fun to watch play out, from the aesthetic design of the DVC tower through construction in the early 20's!

Shouldn’t Paradise Pier (RIP) Hotel theoretically be next in line and then the Disneyland Hotel? While the Disneyland Hotel isn’t the most modern, I feel like it’s got enough charm to trick people into paying a premium and staying for another 15+ years. Paradise Pier on the other hand...well I can’t think of a single reason why anyone would choose to stay there.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Shouldn’t Paradise Pier (RIP) Hotel theoretically be next in line and then the Disneyland Hotel? While the Disneyland Hotel isn’t the most modern, I feel like it’s got enough charm to trick people into paying a premium and staying for another 15+ years. Paradise Pier on the other hand...well I can’t think of a single reason why anyone would choose to stay there.

Both are in desperate need of major renovation. IMO the lasting ripple effect of the 4th hotel not going forward is the ability to do a major renovation of PP and DLH without taking room inventory off line. I couldn't help but notice that the design aesthetic of the 4th hotel did not mesh with the DLH. With that hotel being right up against it, my feeling that the plan was to close and redo the DLH once the 4th hotel came online. The new DLH would have closely matched the new hotel design. Then they would move over to PP.

Without the 4th hotel in place, they have to more strategic and perhaps less ambitious with renovation plans as they want to keep room inventory as close to the current level as possible to avoid revenue losses.

 

[TP2000]

Shouldn’t Paradise Pier (RIP) Hotel theoretically be next in line and then the Disneyland Hotel? While the Disneyland Hotel isn’t the most modern, I feel like it’s got enough charm to trick people into paying a premium and staying for another 15+ years. Paradise Pier on the other hand...well I can’t think of a single reason why anyone would choose to stay there.

As with all information gleaned at a cocktail party, take this with a grain of salt. But...

A few years ago I spoke with an old friend who is very well connected in OC's commercial real estate market, including some hotel developments the Irvine Company and others were involved in. This friend said that the Paradise Pier Hotel is technically Disney's but is saddled with a very cumbersome contract that deals with taxes and depreciation and payments still being made to the Japanese development firm that built the hotel originally in the 1980's. A tax attorney could explain it best, but basically it boils down to the fact that Disney still has to send a bit of the profits made at the Paradise Pier Hotel to the Japanese developer every tax year. And that hinders and makes it difficult to do much with the hotel until that agreement ends.

This was apparently the deciding factor in closing the Yamabuki restaurant at the Paradise Pier Hotel, because Disney had to send a bit of the profits from Yamabuki to the developer and they couldn't find a business model that allowed it to work. They tried in '07 with the last remodel and relaunch of Yamabuki, but it still couldn't pencil out and was costing Disney money. When the financial crisis hit in '08 it was an easy choice to close Yamabuki and save Disney some money. They use that restaurant as storage space now supposedly.

When does the contract with the Japanese developer end? Who knows. But it helps explain why the Paradise Pier Hotel is perhaps the ugliest and most pointless hotel being run by the Walt Disney Company today. They can't implode it without paying out, they can't invest heavily in it without paying out, and they can't offer much in the way of dining or retail without paying out. So there it sits, just getting uglier by the year.

 

[Mouse Trap]

As with all information gleaned at a cocktail party, take this with a grain of salt. But...

A few years ago I spoke with an old friend who is very well connected in OC's commercial real estate market, including some hotel developments the Irvine Company and others were involved in. This friend said that the Paradise Pier Hotel is technically Disney's but is saddled with a very cumbersome contract that deals with taxes and depreciation and payments still being made to the Japanese development firm that built the hotel originally in the 1980's. A tax attorney could explain it best, but basically it boils down to the fact that Disney still has to send a bit of the profits made at the Paradise Pier Hotel to the Japanese developer every tax year. And that hinders and makes it difficult to do much with the hotel until that agreement ends.

This was apparently the deciding factor in closing the Yamabuki restaurant at the Paradise Pier Hotel, because Disney had to send a bit of the profits from Yamabuki to the developer and they couldn't find a business model that allowed it to work. They tried in '07 with the last remodel and relaunch of Yamabuki, but it still couldn't pencil out and was costing Disney money. When the financial crisis hit in '08 it was an easy choice to close Yamabuki and save Disney some money. They use that restaurant as storage space now supposedly.

When does the contract with the Japanese developer end? Who knows. But it helps explain why the Paradise Pier Hotel is perhaps the ugliest and most pointless hotel being run by the Walt Disney Company today. They can't implode it without paying out, they can't invest heavily in it without paying out, and they can't offer much in the way of dining or retail without paying out. So there it sits, just getting uglier by the year.

So how long have the rooms and such remained the same? 2000-ish?

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

Kind of surprised but not surprised.

A few years ago before he went into retirement Al Lutz said they wanted to build a "Tomorrowland Tower" for the fourth tower of the Disneyland Hotel, putting it just west of the ESPNZone back then. It sounds like they have returned to that old concept and turned it into a DVC thing.

As some of us who had heard a few things from good sources said in another thread, that fourth hotel plan for Downtown Disney's west side is dead, dead, dead. That ship sailed in 2018 and it's not coming back. This proves it.

but..but I Thought you were Al Lutz??? At least that is what the interwebs told me.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Remember, the PPH is not part of the DLR Specific Plan, where Disney has a lot more freedom to do things. The PPH is its own Island, and part of the Anaheim Resort Specific Plan, which has a lot more rules, including much more city oversight and say. It has to have its own parking, besides other things. And yes, TP2000 brings up something I am not allowed to talk about, and haven't for decades.

So the PPH is a weird little situation. To be honest, every wish list I have heard from DLR folks is to tear it completely down (Parking included) and start from scratch. Of course, that is not currently in the cards.