Money committed to EPCOT...

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Easy fellas. Marni = MJ. Okay.
"Marni is legit". Okay. Sure, 'nuff said, please don't elaborate. I'll just follow this Great and Powerful Oz of Disney boards too then.

Feel free to go back through his nearly thirteen years of posts and see his credibility for yourself. I've been posting here for going on fifteen years, so I've been here the whole time he has and he is an absolute wealth of WDW knowledge and is generally very well informed. It's very rare that something doesn't happen if he says it will. Another very credible insider is @Lee.

 

[Castle Cake Apologist]

Or put another way. How could Forbidden Journey come in at $85 million? Not choosing Universal specifically, just as a generic example. It shows it still can be done.

Meanwhile, gems like Mermaid cost Disney $100m and then later require a major rehab to fix glaring design issues. Ridiculous.

 

[dizda]

Sometime in the future(5 years?) there will be money committed to EPCOT(350 mil?). To those well versed in costs of rehabs, how far will this money go? Enough to rehab UoE, JII and WoL pavilions(making them places that guests want to once again visit?) and an attraction somewhere in WS? Finish the descent of SSE?

Thanks!

I have also been thinking about how far the $350 million would go, and I have concluded not far enough with Disney's cost structure. A new E-ticket would probably cost at least $200 to $300 million. Granted that the Future World pavilions are already built, but actually fixing UOE or Imagination or re-opening WOL would require a complete rebuild of the interior (i.e., gut it and start over) in most people's opinion. Fixing just UOE would probably be the majority of the budget, and I doubt that money was intended for just one or two big projects.

 

[Sonconato]

There was an article in the Orlando Sentinel in April of 2014 that said "Analysts have estimated the cost of the new Fantasyland at $425 million." No idea how accurate that is but it gives some level of magnitude. With that said, considering how large Epcot is, if they wanted to "touch" each and every Pavilion, it'll probably end up being paint and flowers!

 

[Hakunamatata]

Easy fellas. Marni = MJ. Okay.
"Marni is legit". Okay. Sure, 'nuff said, please don't elaborate. I'll just follow this Great and Powerful Oz of Disney boards too then.

 

[Darth Sidious]

It costs more due to the ways costs are allocated, the cost of design, procurement and execution. Basically it's become a bloated corporate mess that has no one to answer to.

One example that sums it up well. WDI designed a light fitting for DLP. The bulbs finally blew. WDI stipulated that only they could supply the replacement. Instead of a local firm supplying a new bulb within days, the bulbs had to be ordered from Glendale and shipped 8000 miles. And priced accordingly.

With no one able to disagree.

Or put another way. How could Forbidden Journey come in at $85 million? Not choosing Universal specifically, just as a generic example. It shows it still can be done.

Knowing how this stuff works in a corporation there are also a ton of "costs" that are just one cost center billing another cost center and shuffling money around.

Sort of like the above scenario except that's actually worse because it caused real costs with the shipping as well.

 

[Sonconato]

I'm pretty new here, who is Marni? Marni was also sited in the Frozen Ever After thread as some type of insider. Like a Stephen A Smith of sorts (if you follow ESPN/Basketball)....and insiders are like broken clocks and blind rats. Not to knock Marni, just want to get some credentials and history/track record before believing what this person writes.

On topic, if great rides and renovations aren't in the budget I hope they do some very technology advanced things - using the Magic Band for special things "only at EPCOT" seems to fit the spirit/vision of the park.

Not sure if anybody suggested this but if you look up MartinsVidsDotnet, I think you will find them very informative and entertaining.

 

[articos]

There was an article in the Orlando Sentinel in April of 2014 that said "Analysts have estimated the cost of the new Fantasyland at $425 million." No idea how accurate that is but it gives some level of magnitude. With that said, considering how large Epcot is, if they wanted to "touch" each and every Pavilion, it'll probably end up being paint and flowers!

Quite a bit more than that estimate. If you're talking about repairs, updates and paint, $350 million goes a long way. If you're talking engineering, building improvements or entire new attractions, it buys a churro. A stale one.

Epcot will get some love, both short and long term. Going to need some patience.

 

[articos]

It costs more due to the ways costs are allocated, the cost of design, procurement and execution. Basically it's become a bloated corporate mess that has no one to answer to.

One example that sums it up well. WDI designed a light fitting for DLP. The bulbs finally blew. WDI stipulated that only they could supply the replacement. Instead of a local firm supplying a new bulb within days, the bulbs had to be ordered from Glendale and shipped 8000 miles. And priced accordingly.

With no one able to disagree.

Or put another way. How could Forbidden Journey come in at $85 million? Not choosing Universal specifically, just as a generic example. It shows it still can be done.

In defense of the logic of WDI-G, specifying it must be sourced from CA is a way to keep control over show quality by making sure the bulb isn't replaced by an inferior bulb or a bulb that doesn't match color temperature or lumens, which is built into the quality of the Disney brand. On the other hand, it's insane, asinine, ridiculous, power-hungry, illogical, wasteful, corporate, egocentric, says they don't trust their on-site team and is just plain dumb. So, there's obviously two sides to the argument.

 

[Sonconato]

Quite a bit more than that estimate. If you're talking about repairs, updates and paint, $350 million goes a long way. If you're talking engineering, building improvements or entire new attractions, it buys a churro. A stale one.

Epcot will get some love, both short and long term. Going to need some patience.

I agree with you. I was actually joking about the paint and flowers mostly because it seems that about all that has changed in Epcot for the past 10 - 20 years are paint colors.

 

[Darth Sidious]

In defense of the logic of WDI-G, specifying it must be sourced from CA is a way to keep control over show quality by making sure the bulb isn't replaced by an inferior bulb or a bulb that doesn't match color temperature or lumens, which is built into the quality of the Disney brand. On the other hand, it's insane, asinine, ridiculous, power-hungry, illogical, wasteful, corporate, egocentric, says they don't trust their on-site team and is just plain dumb. So, there's obviously two sides to the argument.

They could just require that WDI approve the new purchase locally. I assume someone at WDI is in France and could take a look or just speak over the phone with local contractors to confirm the specs before putting them in. Like you said there are two sides to this but the logic for WDI to ship things is a bit flawed when they could simply do a quick quality control test before purchasing the local stuff.

 

[aladdin2007]

Quite a bit more than that estimate. If you're talking about repairs, updates and paint, $350 million goes a long way. If you're talking engineering, building improvements or entire new attractions, it buys a churro. A stale one.

Epcot will get some love, both short and long term. Going to need some patience.

Makes sense, and I have a feeling the money will go towards little things here and there. Ive said it in another thread but I believe a drop of it brought the three caballeros animatronics out of cobwebs finally for Mexico. So will be more of things like that I would think. Hopefully they arent using it on stuff like the dvc lounge at imagination, that would make me mad.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

I can't comment on the reality of any of that, but for $350M to cover all those things, they would have to use the pavilions/buildings as-is (like Maelstrom re do), and even then, it would be several mediocre refurbs, or one semi major, and a few overlays.

$350M doesn't go very far at WDW.

EPCOT needs a billion dollar makeover. Hopefully it will get some love after Disney straightens out DHS and DAK. That park has so much potential with attractions in place that just need to be updated and get the park back to the way it was with all of the pavilions, fountains and attractions in working order.

 

[MacRtst]

I know stuff takes a lot of money, but for the cost that it takes to get things done, you'd think it'd get done quicker.

 

[dizda]

EPCOT needs a billion dollar makeover. Hopefully it will get some love after Disney straightens out DHS and DAK. That park has so much potential with attractions in place that just need to be updated and get the park back to the way it was with all of the pavilions, fountains and attractions in working order.

I agree that at least a billion is needed for a true fix. The $350 million is likely for patches and aesthetic improvements.

 

[dizda]

I know stuff takes a lot of money, but for the cost that it takes to get things done, you'd think it'd get done quicker.

I think the WDI motto these days is "Do you want it slow and expensive or really slow and really expensive?"

 

[LAKid53]

It costs more due to the ways costs are allocated, the cost of design, procurement and execution. Basically it's become a bloated corporate mess that has no one to answer to.

One example that sums it up well. WDI designed a light fitting for DLP. The bulbs finally blew. WDI stipulated that only they could supply the replacement. Instead of a local firm supplying a new bulb within days, the bulbs had to be ordered from Glendale and shipped 8000 miles. And priced accordingly.

With no one able to disagree.

Or put another way. How could Forbidden Journey come in at $85 million? Not choosing Universal specifically, just as a generic example. It shows it still can be done.

True. Sad, but true. Given the total projected outlay (and once the BOD stops their happy dance over the record breaking revenues from TFA), wouldn't someone on the BOD want to take a look at costs throughout the project? Granted, I've been out of the corporate world for a while, but I would think Iger at BOD meetings (if not shareholder meetings) would give updates on not only progress, but costs. After all, major shareholders are going to be very interested in the equation revenues - expenses...... And I would hope someone on the BOD would ask, "Bob, why the hell did we not source replacement bulbs locally? We paid how many $$$$$ to ship 100 replacement bulbs from Glendale? Has no one in this company ever heard of Just in Time Inventory? Why didn't we have a % of the total bulbs (correct name is lamps) on site as replacements for burned out lamps?" Not that this should be THE issue to get one's panties in a wad, but as you said, it clearly demonstrates a corporate mindset that is just mind boggling to this lowly finance/accounting person. Granted, Disney is the largest entertainment company in the world (sorry, Comcast), but they aren't going to remain that way forever if this is how money is spent. That cash cow called ESPN is starting to reflect declining revenues. Not every property out of the movie side is going to be a Frozen or Force Awakens. Disney needs to remember the early 1980s before Eisner came on board. Are there even any execs that make cost decisions still around from that time?

Sorry for the long post, but your comment made me remember one of my finance professor's lectures. Companies don't stay profitable (even more so in this crazy economy) forever if they spend money foolishly. If I were on their BOD and read in a report that Glendale insisted THEY be the ones to supply lamps for light fixtures at DLP, I'd have the individual who made that decision (and I wouldn't care if it was Iger, Staggs, McCarthy etc.) on the phone, explaining why. Because I would start wondering what BIGGER things are there......

 

[LAKid53]

Yeah that is what I meant haha. That does not surprise me at all. The way Disney does some stuff makes no logical sense at all but who am I to question what is quite possibly the biggest company in the world.

I think Apple would disagree with that classification.....

 

[raven]

When they spend thousands and thousands of dollars, and countless meetings, on shade of paint and textures of grass (E:E comes to mind), $350mil doesn't go far.

I don't understand who Disney can take 2-5 years to build an attraction when Sea World, Uni & Busch Gardens (along with countless other parks) can build a new ride in 1 year.

But Disney calls this "attention to detail" and most guests wouldn't even care to notice it. But since they have unlimited funds from rising ticket prices, they take their time and spend away.

 

[LAKid53]

When they spend thousands and thousands of dollars, and countless meetings, on shade of paint and textures of grass (E:E comes to mind), $350mil doesn't go far.

I don't understand who Disney can take 2-5 years to build an attraction when Sea World, Uni & Busch Gardens (along with countless other parks) can build a new ride in 1 year.

But Disney calls this "attention to detail" and most guests wouldn't even care to notice it. But since they have unlimited funds from rising ticket prices, they take their time and spend away.

Contrary to what Disney may think, I believe Uni also paid "attention to detail" building the two Harry Potter worlds. And they did each of them in under 2 years. How long did the Fantasyland expansion take? And is the Hub done yet?