Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway - Disneyland

[Rich T]

I think he is saying that it's not Epcot's edutainment approach that failed. It was the stupid tourists that didn't want to be educated in the first place. The school systems in this country suck the love of learning out of person. It's a difficult thing to get back into.

But a theme park has to cater to the public that actually exists... or it fails. Epcot was one great, grand final achievement in creating a park with a greater purpose beyond entertainment. And, hey, don't blame our school system. Blame our pop culture and corporations and media giants who will sink as low as the law will allow in order to make a buck by catering to the most violent and hateful sides of humanity. Blame parents who use technology as a babysitter. Blame everything about our society that encourages short attention spans and easy answers.
(EDIT) Come to think of it, blame Disney themselves. They helped create the public that has no interest in education. Remember when the Disney channel actually had nature shows and literary dramas? Remember when the Disney Channel had class and catered to the whole family?

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

You realize you're kinda contradicting yourself here, right?

Nah.
Epcot wasn't incorrect to lean towards edutainment. That wasn't its downfall.
Similarly, society being dumber isn't Epcot's fault or the reason attractions fell into stagnation.

"Dumb" society just further proves it can't appreciate Epcot in any shape or form unless they can see Elsa or go zoom zoom with Groot.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Oh boy...let's not get started on the state of education...

I just graded a 5th grade science test the other day and well...it seems some kids never quite passed spelling in kindergarten. And when I asked the teacher about it, she said "the school doesn't really want us focusing on spelling anymore, since pretty much everyone has computers that will show you when a word is misspelled".

We're talking about kids misspelling words that were RIGHT THERE IN THE FREAKING QUESTION.
Thank you technology.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

I think you're being a little too harsh. I'm old enough to remember rides like Mission to Mars, Adventure Thru Inner Space and The Submarine Voyage. Each of those attractions were ambitious and presented a mix of entertainment with science education in a clever way, but even in their heyday they were beyond hokey and were never as popular with guests as Pirates, The Matterhorn Bobsleds, or Space Mountain. The shift to Studio IP hasn't happened because society has been dumbed down, it's because no one was ever going to Disneyland to learn about Mars, the latest kitchen appliances from General Electric, or frozen water molecules inside a snowflake.

Fair enough, but I wasn't really referring to those attractions, mainly Epcot. To me, the ones you listed were definitely more entertainment first, education as a potential byproduct.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Epcot wasn't incorrect to lean towards edutainment. That wasn't its downfall.

It absolutely was. A person might visit once or twice in a lifetime, but Disney could never hope to see the kind of attendance at EPCOT Center that it sees at the castle parks and there's good reason. Fewer people want to be entertained by the type of subject matter EPCOT presented, and I would imagine that over time people got smarter and saw through EPCOT's pretentiousness.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

It absolutely was. A person might go once or twice but Disney would never see the kind of attendance at a park like EPCOT Center that it sees at the castle parks and there's good reason. This isn't anything new. Fewer people want to be entertained by the type of subject matter EPCOT presented, and I would imagine that over time people got smarter and saw through EPCOT's pretense.

OK, but could it also be because they never updated a damn thing and people just got bored with it instead?

And to that point, I guess it kinda just boils down to taste. Personally, I get bored riding the storybook attractions, but I could ride Spaceship Earth on a loop because it actually left me hopeful for the future.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

OK, but could it also be because they never updated a damn thing and people just got bored with it instead?

I'm sure that's a factor, but before EPCOT opened the writing was on the wall. Disney has consistently done a terrible at telling that story with Tomorrowland, so the failure of EPCOT to live up to its lofty aspirations shouldn't be too surprising.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

I'm sure that's a factor, but before EPCOT opened the writing was on the wall. Disney has consistently done a terrible at telling that story with Tomorrowland, so the failure of EPCOT to live up to its lofty aspirations shouldn't be too surprising.

Don't haaaaaaate man! Come on!
Epcot's FW blew Tomorrowland out of the water.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Don't haaaaaaate man! Come on!
Epcot's FW blew Tomorrowland out of the water.

Um that was like 30+ years ago and they've both ended up in essentially the same place. "The future" as a theme is WDI's biggest weak spot yet they keep trying to tackle it and they fail every time.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Um that was like 30+ years ago and they've both ended up in essentially the same place. "The future" as a theme is WDI's biggest weak spot yet they keep trying to tackle it and they fail every time.

curse you for being right...

While FW started out leaps and bounds ahead of TL, they've both ended up where the rest of Disney is ending up...IP takeovers.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

So.....um....back to Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway!

 

[CJR]

As much as people have complained that "Frozen is everywhere!", it is indeed odd that the franchise hasn't gotten its own E-Ticket or Land. Instead, it's a little bit here and a little bit there... and there... and there.

Unfortunately, that's nothing new. They missed out on the Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King. Then, they've also had Marvel for how long and the best they've done yet is a ToT makeover. It's a bad habit. The company has used band-aids for newish IP's for decades really.

It'll be interesting to see what becomes of Toontown. I doubt few will complain about the Mickey ride and it actually works. If they can salvage any part of Toontown, esp Roger, it'll be a huge win. Fingers are crossed.

 

[Pixieish]

Oh boy...let's not get started on the state of education...

I just graded a 5th grade science test the other day and well...it seems some kids never quite passed spelling in kindergarten. And when I asked the teacher about it, she said "the school doesn't really want us focusing on spelling anymore, since pretty much everyone has computers that will show you when a word is misspelled".

We're talking about kids misspelling words that were RIGHT THERE IN THE FREAKING QUESTION.
Thank you technology.

I'm studying to be a teacher and this reminds me of many of the battles I've had with one of the schools in our town...they don't believe in discipline for kids younger than 6th grade and they've let my older son develop all kinds of bad behaviors in class that have now become habit - like refusing to do work and speaking out in class. He's on the autism spectrum (mild), but that's no excuse for bad behavior. And when he was in 4th grade, there was another kid literally calling him names all day DURING CLASS and they did nothing to fix it...my poor kiddo stopped reporting because nothing was changing. Needless to say, it's been a struggle to get him back on track, but the new school is being super helpful and supportive and we're getting systems in place.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

I'm studying to be a teacher and this reminds me of many of the battles I've had with one of the schools in our town...they don't believe in discipline for kids younger than 6th grade and they've let my older son develop all kinds of bad behaviors in class that have now become habit - like refusing to do work and speaking out in class. He's on the autism spectrum (mild), but that's no excuse for bad behavior. And when he was in 4th grade, there was another kid literally calling him names all day DURING CLASS and they did nothing to fix it...my poor kiddo stopped reporting because nothing was changing. Needless to say, it's been a struggle to get him back on track, but the new school is being super helpful and supportive and we're getting systems in place.

I'm really sorry to hear that about your son, but glad to hear he's in a new helpful environment!
School sure has changed since I was there. The same teacher who's test I helped grade the other day said her assistant principal informed her that she's wasting her time reading through a novel with her students and teaching them social studies, since the big state test this year is in science...but also tells her that the school board "isn't all about test scores"....riiiiiight.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It absolutely was. A person might visit once or twice in a lifetime, but Disney could never hope to see the kind of attendance at EPCOT Center that it sees at the castle parks and there's good reason. Fewer people want to be entertained by the type of subject matter EPCOT presented, and I would imagine that over time people got smarter and saw through EPCOT's pretentiousness.

The story that EPCOT Center had attendance problems is simply not true. Epcot still fails to attract its highest levels of visitation.

 

[FigmentForver96]

It absolutely was. A person might visit once or twice in a lifetime, but Disney could never hope to see the kind of attendance at EPCOT Center that it sees at the castle parks and there's good reason. Fewer people want to be entertained by the type of subject matter EPCOT presented, and I would imagine that over time people got smarter and saw through EPCOT's pretentiousness.

Yet it did see it. Hmmmm

 

[Pixieish]

I'm really sorry to hear that about your son, but glad to hear he's in a new helpful environment!
School sure has changed since I was there. The same teacher who's test I helped grade the other day said her assistant principal informed her that she's wasting her time reading through a novel with her students and teaching them social studies, since the big state test this year is in science...but also tells her that the school board "isn't all about test scores"....riiiiiight.

 

[No Name]

True, but I did allude to this when I mentioned EPCOT, a park twice the size of the MK, yet it has never been nearly as popular. If you look at the history of Disney Parks the most popular long-term formula for content, with a few important E ticket classics, has been studio based IP.

That's incorrect. For most of the park's early history, it was around 2 million or so shy of MK's attendance. In 1997, attendance peaked at nearly 12 million visitors. The park has become much heavier on IP, but hasn't reached that attendance level ever since. Visitation dropped last year despite Frozen Ever After opening. I'm no EPCOT Center purist, but it was a quality park, and attendance reflected that.

There are too many confounding variables to back up your claim that studio IP plays such a role in a park's success, or for me to back up my opposite claim. We could use the same examples to make opposite points. I think it was you I went back and fourth with once or twice. My memory is failing so I might be making that up. But you're incorrect about Epcot which is why I replied.

 

[Ismael Flores]

But a theme park has to cater to the public that actually exists... or it fails. Epcot was one great, grand final achievement in creating a park with a greater purpose beyond entertainment. And, hey, don't blame our school system. Blame our pop culture and corporations and media giants who will sink as low as the law will allow in order to make a buck by catering to the most violent and hateful sides of humanity. Blame parents who use technology as a babysitter. Blame everything about our society that encourages short attention spans and easy answers.
(EDIT) Come to think of it, blame Disney themselves. They helped create the public that has no interest in education. Remember when the Disney channel actually had nature shows and literary dramas? Remember when the Disney Channel had class and catered to the whole family?

It is sad how people use technology as babysitters. Just yesterday I was a restaurant and a couple had their three children with them. instead of eating and talking and enjoying dinner as a family they set up iPads for all three on the tables. They children where eating, two were watching movies and one was playing video game with one hand and fork in the other while eating. Not once did they exchange a word and it continues that way till they were done and walking out the door.

So sad

 

[Deleted member 107043]

That's incorrect. For most of the park's early history, it was around 2 million or so shy of MK's attendance.

How is it incorrect? Your stats prove that it has never been as popular. 2 million people is a lot of people. Some parks get that many visitors in an entire season.