Living with the baboons

[ImperfectPixie]

The thing is, I’ve never seen such behaviour at WDW full stop; the only incidents of this type I know of are those that end up being reported on the internet. I tend to agree with those posters who suggest that the past may not have been that much better, if at all. We often romanticise how things used to be, ignoring the fact that certain kinds of behaviour we now regard as unacceptable (smoking indoors, openly ogling women, making mildly racist and homophobic remarks) were once quite commonplace even in polite society.

Yes, but I think on the whole people have been less and less concerned with being considered rude or obnoxious as time has progressed.

 

[Master Yoda]

Oddly enough, there were plenty of people who recorded nearly every detail of the parks in the days of 8 mm, VCR cameras and Camcorders (my dad was one). Perhaps the biggest difference, though, was that their only platform for sharing the videos was with immediate family (and the occasional friend who would get dragged into watching).

That being said, none of my dad's hours of Disney World home movies ever caught any bad guest behavior like we've seen recently.

I think you are being generous with the word "plenty". How many people lugged around video equipment in the '80s...maybe one in a thousand?

Over 90% of American adults currently have a smartphone. Around 80% of teens have them. There are arguably more video recording devices in the parks on and given today than there were in a month in the 80's.

 

[LittleBuford]

Yes, but I think on the whole people have been less and less concerned with being considered rude or obnoxious as time has progressed.

I agree that there is less emphasis today on certain expectations of politeness that prevailed in the past (saying "please" and "thank you", opening doors for people, etc.), but I also feel that society has become safer and fairer for a greater number of people than was the case even ten years ago.

And again, I can honestly say that I've never witnessed such behaviour at WDW except when it's recorded and shared on the internet. That's not to say it isn't happening more frequently now than it used to (I should think that's inevitable with increased crowd levels), but I'm not convinced that people today are inherently ruder than past generations were.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I agree that there is less emphasis today on certain expectations of politeness that prevailed in the past (saying "please" and "thank you", opening doors for people, etc.), but I also feel that society has become safer and fairer for a greater number of people than was the case even ten years ago.

And again, I can honestly say that I've never witnessed such behaviour at WDW except when it's recorded and shared on the internet. That's not to say it isn't happening more frequently now than it used to (I should think that's inevitable with increased crowd levels), but I'm not convinced that people today are inherently ruder than past generations were.

My point exactly...that it's happening more frequently. Also, I do think society overall is safer, but that's not the microcosm that has been being debated.

 

[ppete1975]

Oddly enough, there were plenty of people who recorded nearly every detail of the parks in the days of 8 mm, VCR cameras and Camcorders (my dad was one). Perhaps the biggest difference, though, was that their only platform for sharing the videos was with immediate family (and the occasional friend who would get dragged into watching).

That being said, none of my dad's hours of Disney World home movies ever caught any bad guest behavior like we've seen recently.

That begs the question how many people see it today when visiting disney, or a sinking jungle cruise boat, a stolen cucumber or a broken door monorail. The internet just makes it so much easier to share these things. BUT i will agree people have changed, peoples fuses are shorter, they feel more entitled, and manners have pretty much disappeared. Just look at road rage as an example.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I think you are being generous with the word "plenty". How many people lugged around video equipment in the '80s...maybe one in a thousand?

Over 90% of American adults currently have a smartphone. Around 80% of teens have them. There are arguably more video recording devices in the parks on and given today than there were in a month in the 80's.

When you're painfully aware of all the AV equipment your own dad loads up on at Disney World (partially because you may have been tasked with carrying some of it from time to time!), you tend to notice the other fathers doing the same. I have no idea of the actual ratio, but it was always easy to pick out the other people with their eyes glued to a camera viewfinder. And there was no shortage of them to find in the crowds.

 

[Kamikaze]

Oddly enough, there were plenty of people who recorded nearly every detail of the parks in the days of 8 mm, VCR cameras and Camcorders (my dad was one). Perhaps the biggest difference, though, was that their only platform for sharing the videos was with immediate family (and the occasional friend who would get dragged into watching).

That being said, none of my dad's hours of Disney World home movies ever caught any bad guest behavior like we've seen recently.

Plenty of people did, sure. But now literally every single guest can. Its not even remotely the same thing.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I went to WDW often in the 70's and 80's my own experience never saw this behavior. Interested in what others experienced who went in the 70's and 80's

I’ve never seen this behavior either, including in the hundreds of trips I’ve taken over the last decade.

If it wasn’t caught on video no one would know about it, that’s likely the major difference between the 70s and today. Even in the 70s people got into arguments and fights, they just weren’t recorded.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I’ve never seen this behavior either, including in the hundreds of trips I’ve taken over the last decade.

If it wasn’t caught on video no one would know about it, that’s likely the major difference between the 70s and today. Even in the 70s people got into arguments and fights, they just weren’t recorded.

I have...four times. Once a father screaming mercilessly at his very upset family (all were crying except him). Another time I was terrified that it was going to be us involved over VERY obvious line-cutting, but thankfully hubby listened when I said to just blow it off (after some uncomfortable silence, the other family let us have our spot back - begrudgingly - but we all ended up on the same Kali raft and in the end, no hard feelings and laughter and shaking hands all the way around...we also bumped into the same family later on and we all waved to each other). Another time was another line-skipping incident in which I really thought punches were going to be thrown. And another time at Epcot during Food and Wine...two couples chewing each other out over God knows what near one of the booths...but we beat feet before it ended, so I don't know what ended up happening.

 

[Ayla]

My own experience is that a good chunk of the populace has seen that any perceived "rule of conduct" has been thrown out the window and they can do whatever they please and do so wholly unapologetically. What used to be the odd frustration is now commonplace. Decades in the workplace and I just keep hitting these points where I am literally shocked like a deer in headlights, with nothing in the handbook on how to deal with what I'm up against.
Conversely however, are those who seem to have picked up on this trend and are really going out of their way to be the better person.
The divides are real and they are steadily spreading.

We see examples of this every day, right here on this board.

 

[mf1972]

in the 20 years we’ve been going, i’m glad to say we’ve never witnessed anything like this, but have only heard about. the only thing we have witnessed was at the UK pavilion 10-12 years ago. a group of people hanging out in front of rose & crown were getting pretty rowdy. across from them was 2 security guards & a disney suit watching them intently. we were on our way out so hopefully nothing happened.

 

[Crunchie9]

Where on earth is security?

Part of the Security + package.

 

[DisneyGentlemanV2.0]

Where on earth is security?

With Carmen Sandiego.

 

[Piebald]

Having seen a couple of fights break out at both Magic Kingdom and Epcot security has the slowest response time ever. Most of the time the fight is done and the Guests continue on there way before they show up.

I've only experienced the opposite. One time years ago I saw a woman punching another woman with a disposable camera. Security came out of NOWHERE and made her disappear. Anecdotal but I was amazed at the response time.

 

[Des]

security was off to the side handling the situation
View attachment 603629

lmao

 

[dovetail65]

I've only experienced the opposite. One time years ago I saw a woman punching another woman with a disposable camera. Security came out of NOWHERE and made her disappear. Anecdotal but I was amazed at the response time.

No response time at all in my case and I know CM's saw the entire thing.

Here is a true story that involved me, some people just should not and are not cut out to go to WDW.

I was in line, but already inside the tunnel area at the "tough to be a bug" attraction.

All of a sudden a guy next to me and I kid you not, he was a minimum of 6'8" or 6'9" and 300 lbs probably much more(basically one of the largest humans I ever saw other than NBA players in person). He was mumbling about the lines, he did not look happy and looked like he was in agony just being there with his family and mind you there were no wait times! That theater wasn't even 3/4 full after we got in.

Anyhow, he continues mumbling then directs his comments to me. I say hey whats up, he says if you touch my son again Ill destroy you, I will kill you. As he says this my hands were ON MY SONS SHOULDERS and had been for at least the last 3 or 4 minutes as we were waiting. Even as I replied my hands were still on my kids shoulders, I said what's going on I haven't done anything to you.

He says you touched my son, I was very polite and said that wasn't me, look my hands are on on my sons shoulders right now. He dismissed me and said do it again and I'll kill you. I was freaked out to say the least. So I look at another son of mine that was there and was standing next to the large mans son, I say did I touch you(talking directly to this kids son)? The son looked terrified so he would not answer. He didn't say yes or no, nothing. Right there and I don't care what anyone says I felt like this kid got beat at home he was afraid of his own father. He looked so scared at that moment my son's jaw was full open mouthing, .

This man's son who was probably no more than 14 was at least 6 foot himself and easily 200lbs and much larger than me, I weigh 142 lbs and hardly 5'8" so none of this made sense. Had I touched him everyone would of known, we were in single file in that exact area and my son directly ahead of me and why I had my hands on his shoulders, I tend to lose my balance. If I touched the kid he would of said yeah you touched me, he didn't. No one around us did a thing, but one guy says under his breath, your hands have been on your kids shoulder I have been here the entire time, but get the hell out of here.

I never touched his son and I don't believe anyone did, so I say hey I didn't touch your son, but apologize anyhow. I say if you felt I bumped him in line or anything like that I am so sorry. He again says touch my son again and I'll kill you. This guy for whatever reason just was not cut out for family time at an amusement park. The actual memory of this makes me feel a way, I fight it because what he did should not effect my enjoyment, but it's tough to forget. This guy could of killed anyone with one punch to the head.

After all this I thought I am not leaving this theater why should my kids have to leave(I had 5 in tow this time).. So I go in and watch the show and instead of just getting the hell out of there I waited outside because well I am not running(dumb). So the guy walks right by me with his family not making eye contact and that was that, never saw him again. I sure did monitor WDW to see if there were any issues that day though.

The CM's were girls, they were terrified and they didn't do anything and in this case. Looking back in hindsight I 100% agree. Escalation without security right there at that moment, well this guy could of been an issue. Had he approached me after I would have had to get security involved. Sometimes doing nothing is safest and in this case I think that was the right call. I don't think 6 security guys could of kept this guy down and it was only words, he never touched me. I was scared and as a male that's a tough thing to say, but I am not stupid.

The only other instances I ever saw was where once a mother acted unruly cutting in front of my wife and acting like it was my wife cutting. My wife and 6 of us for that trip were all together, this woman's family were at least 10 people behind us. My wife tried to explain to her if I cut then why are all 6 of my family together yet your family is way back there? This woman was a real piece of work. I had to beg my wife to walk away as she was taking the bait. Another time kids were swearing so I say please stop, one kid literally tells me to F off, then another person I do not know in the line tells his parents, "hey your kids are too loud and swearing", the parents(mother) says, "shut the F up my kids can do as they want". This was in the Peter Pan line, there were little kids all over. CM's simply ignored the entire thing.

So to me it is 100% the parents fault when this stuff happens, no one can convince me otherwise. Three instances in over 100 visits is not that bad I guess.

 

[Whippet Mom]

On the bright side everybody kept their masks on

 

[DisneyDelirious]

I’ll add anecdotal evidence to the pile. I have seen verbal disagreements (mostly between tired members of the same family) for decades. Only in the last 10 years have I witnessed an actual punch thrown. That was at Disney Springs and alcohol was clearly a factor. That being said I did witness a drunkard attempting to climb the temple in Mexico in the last decade. I’ve spent 5 days on Universal Property (earlier this year) and saw a throw down in Seussland. Right outside Circus McGurkus Cafe. Most of what I see, and this is a quote is the “I’m going to take you to the magical parking lot and spank your a$$” type behavior. Sun, spending beyond your means and/or underestimating the expense of a trip, long days on little legs, and not being in Disney Parks shape all take a toll on many unsuspecting visitors. The wearing of masks, and peoples feelings on masks and imposed interventions just seems to add to it all for some folks and push them over the edge.

 

[JoeCamel]

No response time at all in my case and I know CM's saw the entire thing.

Here is a true story that involved me, some people just should not and are not cut out to go to WDW.

I was in line, but already inside the tunnel area at the "tough to be a bug" attraction.

All of a sudden a guy next to me and I kid you not, he was a minimum of 6'8" or 6'9" and 300 lbs probably much more(basically one of the largest humans I ever saw other than NBA players in person). He was mumbling about the lines, he did not look happy and looked like he was in agony just being there with his family and mind you there were no wait times! That theater wasn't even 3/4 full after we got in.

Anyhow, he continues mumbling then directs his comments to me. I say hey whats up, he says if you touch my son again Ill destroy you, I will kill you. As he says this my hands were ON MY SONS SHOULDERS and had been for at least the last 3 or 4 minutes as we were waiting. Even as I replied my hands were still on my kids shoulders, I said what's going on I haven't done anything to you.

He says you touched my son, I was very polite and said that wasn't me, look my hands are on on my sons shoulders right now. He dismissed me and said do it again and I'll kill you. I was freaked out to say the least. So I look at another son of mine that was there and was standing next to the large mans son, I say did I touch you(talking directly to this kids son)? The son looked terrified so he would not answer. He didn't say yes or no, nothing. Right there and I don't care what anyone says I felt like this kid got beat at home he was afraid of his own father. He looked so scared at that moment my son's jaw was full open mouthing, ***.

This man's son who was probably no more than 14 was at least 6 foot himself and easily 200lbs and much larger than me, I weigh 142 lbs and hardly 5'8" so none of this made sense. Had I touched him everyone would of known, we were in single file in that exact area and my son directly ahead of me and why I had my hands on his shoulders, I tend to lose my balance. If I touched the kid he would of said yeah you touched me, he didn't. No one around us did a thing, but one guy says under his breath, your hands have been on your kids shoulder I have been here the entire time, but get the hell out of here.

I never touched his son and I don't believe anyone did, so I say hey I didn't touch your son, but apologize anyhow. I say if you felt I bumped him in line or anything like that I am so sorry. He again says touch my son again and I'll kill you. This guy for whatever reason just was not cut out for family time at an amusement park. The actual memory of this makes me feel a way, I fight it because what he did should not effect my enjoyment, but it's tough to forget. This guy could of killed anyone with one punch to the head.

After all this I thought I am not leaving this theater why should my kids have to leave(I had 5 in tow this time).. So I go in and watch the show and instead of just getting the hell out of there I waited outside because well I am not running(dumb). So the guy walks right by me with his family not making eye contact and that was that, never saw him again. I sure did monitor WDW to see if there were any issues that day though.

The CM's were girls, they were terrified and they didn't do anything and in this case. Looking back in hindsight I 100% agree. Escalation without security right there at that moment, well this guy could of been an issue. Had he approached me after I would have had to get security involved. Sometimes doing nothing is safest and in this case I think that was the right call. I don't think 6 security guys could of kept this guy down and it was only words, he never touched me. I was scared and as a male that's a tough thing to say, but I am not stupid.

The only other instances I ever saw was where once a mother acted unruly cutting in front of my wife and acting like it was my wife cutting. My wife and 6 of us for that trip were all together, this woman's family were at least 10 people behind us. My wife tried to explain to her if I cut then why are all 6 of my family together yet your family is way back there? This woman was a real piece of work. I had to beg my wife to walk away as she was taking the bait. Another time kids were swearing so I say please stop, one kid literally tells me to F off, then another person I do not know in the line tells his parents, "hey your kids are too loud and swearing", the parents(mother) says, "shut the F up my kids can do as they want". This was in the Peter Pan line, there were little kids all over. CM's simply ignored the entire thing.

So to me it is 100% the parents fault when this stuff happens, no one can convince me otherwise. Three instances in over 100 visits is not that bad I guess.

I wonder if the guy was claustrophobic? Might have set him on edge

 

[Introvert]

Yes, but I think on the whole people have been less and less concerned with being considered rude or obnoxious as time has progressed.

I agree. When the parks are packed and long lines ensue peoples behavior seems to digress to children like behaviors. Pushing , line cutting , loud rude comments and other behavior hosted by irritation . Everyone wants to ride attractions with little or no wait. Everyone wants the most out of each park because this is what they paid big bucks for.