Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[bmr1591]

I personally don't think there is a lot of abuse happening with DAS. What I think is happening is more people are using than they did in the past.

It's due to cost of Genie+ and Genie+ not as flexible for planning.

You’re delusional. I literally hear people talking about getting DAS even though they don’t need it because it’s a free fast pass every time I ride the bus.

 

[DisneyDodo]

You assume it is a money grab but how does that make sense? The people who need it will still get it under the new system so the only ones who will have to pay not to wait in a physical line are the ones who are taking advantage. If the abuse is as small as you seem to think it will not amount to any real money for Disney.

With that in mind, why would they risk all the negative press, all the pushback, the potential lawsuits and monetary damages, all the angry guests to change something that does not generate any real additional revenue?

Here is what we do know.
- The previous system was being abused so Disney changed it.
- They were challenged in court and proved that it was being abused.
- In the ten years since, Disney has become more expensive and more crowded.
- G+ was introduced removing the free, FP+.
- Little to no additional capacity was added to handle the increased crowds.

Which one of those factors makes you think there is LESS incentive to cheat now vs. the last time they changed it?

Even if we throw all that aside, you keep saying they would stop it if it was happening. Well, by changing the system, they are doing exactly that.

Bottom line, what we all want is for the abuse to stop, not ruin the system for those that need it.

@Splash4eva will not be satisfied until you provide an exhaustive list of names of every individual who has ever lied on their DAS application, with video evidence and a note from a doctor affirming that they do not require any accommodations.

Short of that, we must assume that everything is perfect exactly as it is now. It’s the only logical conclusion.

 

[bmr1591]

What’s interesting is I never hear people who actually need DAS complain about Disney potentially requiring verification. Abusers, though, get up in arms about their rights.

 

[Andrew25]

Riding the same high demand attraction multiple times in a day using DAS probably is abuse in the eyes of many.

To be fair, as long as they're also not in line for other rides, it's fair for them to be allowed to ride the same ride over and over again.

Same way someone using standby can ride the same ride over and over again, DAS can too.

 

[Jrb1979]

You’re delusional. I literally hear people talking about getting DAS even though they don’t need it because it’s a free fast pass every time I ride the bus.

Then Disney needs to go the Universal route and use a third party and DAS users need to start showing proof.

 

[Splash4eva]

What’s interesting is I never hear people who actually need DAS complain about Disney potentially requiring verification. Abusers, though, get up in arms about their rights.

Been saying that all this time. One of my 1st comments. Cut the crap of privacy esp now that its literally on a zoom call and if you do it in person ask for somewhere private at city hall. For years i would bring documentation even tho it wasnt needed before they went to the new system. Anyone with legit needs would Embrace this not argue it… i do my zoom call i tell them why i need it and my issues etc. No beating around the bush at all.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

You assume it is a money grab but how does that make sense? The people who need it will still get it under the new system so the only ones who will have to pay not to wait in a physical line are the ones who are taking advantage. If the abuse is as small as you seem to think it will not amount to any real money for Disney.

With that in mind, why would they risk all the negative press, all the pushback, the potential lawsuits and monetary damages, all the angry guests to change something that does not generate any real additional revenue?

Here is what we do know.
- The previous system was being abused so Disney changed it.
- They were challenged in court and proved that it was being abused.
- In the ten years since, Disney has become more expensive and more crowded.
- G+ was introduced removing the free, FP+.
- Little to no additional capacity was added to handle the increased crowds.

Which one of those factors makes you think there is LESS incentive to cheat now vs. the last time they changed it?

Even if we throw all that aside, you keep saying they would stop it if it was happening. Well, by changing the system, they are doing exactly that.

Bottom line, what we all want is for the abuse to stop, not ruin the system for those that need it.

Exactly. If Disney changes DAS, which @wdwmagic seems to think, we will know that DAS is NOT working as Disney intended. If DAS is working exactly as Disney wants, there will be no changes coming. Simple.

 

[el_super]

Then Disney needs to go the Universal route and use a third party and DAS users need to start showing proof.

Has this been challenged in court yet because it sounds all kinds of illegal.

If someone comes to the park and asks for an accomodation, the park cannot say no because they didn't fill out the proper paperwork.

 

[James Alucobond]

If Disney had any hard evidence anyone has lied about DAS they would be easily able to stop them.

It is less about lying and more that, based on how many people in the parks on a given day are eligible for DAS (or, in the case presented, the prior program), they somehow utilize a shockingly disproportionate amount of the express queue capacity. Simply put, it means the service is not functioning as intended if it’s just supposed to level the playing field and not create a distinct advantage.

 

[Splash4eva]

@Splash4eva will not be satisfied until you provide an exhaustive list of names of every individual who has ever lied on their DAS application, with video evidence and a note from a doctor affirming that they do not require any accommodations.

Short of that, we must assume that everything is perfect exactly as it is now. It’s the only logical conclusion.

Yep you caught me. Not one person on the inside can provide any insight at all to what % people are getting DAS by “fraud”. Its a simple question to ask when people are so adamant abuse is supposedly rampant

 

[SamusAranX]

Absolutely abuse

It most certainly is not. You still have to “wait” the same amount of time minus five minutes each time; are you proposing only allowing standby riders to ride RotR once per day?

 

[Splash4eva]

It is less about lying and more that, based on how many people in the parks on a given day are eligible for DAS (or, in the case presented, the prior program), they somehow utilize a shockingly disproportionate amount of the express queue capacity. Simply put, it means the service is not functioning as intended if it’s just supposed to level the playing field and not create a distinct advantage.

Then thats not abuse thats Disneys fault and their own set of rules DAS users are playing. Again seems like we have moved the goal posts yet again from abuse/people lying to DAS users are taken up too much of the LL capacity…

 

[SamusAranX]

Has this been challenged in court yet because it sounds all kinds of illegal.

If someone comes to the park and asks for an accomodation, the park cannot say no because they didn't fill out the proper paperwork.

I would think it’s lawful to ask for proof provided you have the right credentials and ducks in a row, hence why USO hired a third party who probably knew the legalities of ADA better. How is it any different from a citation issued to a vehicle parked in a handicapped spot that is missing its placard? Yes, if someone is clearly handicapped visually, the cops might let it slide, but generally speaking you have to apply for and carry proof of it to utilize the accommodation of closeR spaces

 

[Jrb1979]

Has this been challenged in court yet because it sounds all kinds of illegal.

If someone comes to the park and asks for an accomodation, the park cannot say no because they didn't fill out the proper paperwork.

Universal has been doing it that way for awhile and they have had no issues.

 

[James Alucobond]

Then thats not abuse thats Disneys fault and their own set of rules DAS users are playing. Again seems like we have moved the goal posts yet again from abuse/people lying to DAS users are taken up too much of the LL capacity…

I’m talking about my personal goalposts. You might be going back and forth with people in this topic who are saying different, nuanced things. Shocker.

And abuse doesn’t necessarily mean rules are broken. It can mean that you are leveraging an advantage you have (perhaps legitimately) to burden the service beyond what is reasonably intended. The same thing happened with rider swap, and they cracked down on it. Yes, ultimately it is on Disney to make rules that mitigate abuse, but it is also an incredibly difficult space in which to make rules because of the nature of the legislation surrounding it.

 

[SamusAranX]

Yep you caught me. Not one person on the inside can provide any insight at all to what % people are getting DAS by “fraud”. Its a simple question to ask when people are so adamant abuse is supposedly rampant

This is where I’m at.
If you’re going to make the accusation that abuse is rampant, the burden of proof is on you to prove it, not just speculate.

I’m all for is requiring proof and/or Disney moving to a verification system ahead of time for ALL das users.

 

[DisneyDodo]

Yep you caught me. Not one person on the inside can provide any insight at all to what % people are getting DAS by “fraud”. Its a simple question to ask when people are so adamant abuse is supposedly rampant

Nobody has, or needs to provide, that specific number. You’re trying to make your claim unfalsifiable by asking a question nobody could possibly have the answer to.

It’s been documented in court that disabled guests and their parties consume a disproportionate percentage of ride capacity. Whether that’s due to abuse or just a flawed system, it suggests that something should change. TWDC has access to a lot more data than any of us do and they’ve apparently reached the same conclusion.

You can continue to insist that everything is hunky dory, but that would just put you in, as a JC skipper would say, disbelief.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yep you caught me. Not one person on the inside can provide any insight at all to what % people are getting DAS by “fraud”. Its a simple question to ask when people are so adamant abuse is supposedly rampant

Nobody knows the actual number. What I do know is that with the increase in guests using DAS that it's having an effect on Genie+ availability.

 

[mikejs78]

I would think it’s lawful to ask for proof provided you have the right credentials and ducks in a row, hence why USO hired a third party who probably knew the legalities of ADA better. How is it any different from a citation issued to a vehicle parked in a handicapped spot that is missing its placard? Yes, if someone is clearly handicapped visually, the cops might let it slide, but generally speaking you have to apply for and carry proof of it to utilize the accommodation of closeR spaces

I think the issue would be if they denied it to people who showed up at the park and asked for an accomodation. They can utilize the service for pre-booking DAS, but they have to have a mechanism to allow people who show up to request an accommodation.

 

[Splash4eva]

Listen ive stated how i use DAS which im sure other do the same but its not difficult to see how DAS can be used properly ie as ive said. I have dinner booked why wouldnt i have a top tier ride ready to go once dinner is finished along with a Genie+ ride as well? If thats abuse then we have different definitions of the word… want to say inthese cases its an “advantage” so be it but abuse thats a stretch. Again Disney is making these rules and we are simply abiding by them… noone cared when DAS users at the time GAC users literally needed to criss cross the park to get return times. Literally asking people who needed special needs to walk endlessly… but whatever regarding that