Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

[MrPromey]

No, I’m genuinely puzzled by people claiming Disney has no intention to limit use of Genie+ when it’s been selling out within minutes in recent days.

It's pretty obvious they can't sell it to an unlimited number of guests.

I assume you already understand that, right?

That it simply would not in any way work if that were the case without some form of artificial set limit?

The whole reason it exists is to give those who buy it some sort of advantage where they don't have enough desirable capacity to properly manage their crowd levels.

Nobody wants to pay $35 and find out the only things available are Carousel of Progress and Philharmagic... They'd need to offer a Genie+ option for guest relations to handle the complaints... and it would be overflowing.

I mean price it to a degree that it would limit usage, organically - not with an artificial cap to keep Genie+ lines from being as long as current standby lines. They don't want to do that. They don't want to reduce the number of people using it more than it is.

Selling out is awful for all guests in times like this when the parks are the most crowded but it's fabulous for Disney.

To make the usage better for both Genie+ and standby guests.

They want to keep it seen as something the bulk of people visiting feel they need to have after having spent so much to get there and be there.

This was not a product that was conceived as a service for anyone. That's why it's not an included benefit to staying on property.

They took their attempt at a service away.

Prices will continue to go up but not to the point that fewer people buy into it.

That's not a point they want to hit.

In case you didn't catch my reference a few pages back to the OG desert party - look up how much the MK fireworks desert party launched at and then look at the price today.

That's where this is headed.

 

[LittleBuford]

It's pretty obvious they can't sell it to an unlimited number of guests.

I assume you already understand that, right?

That it simply would not in any way work if that were the case without some form of artificial set limit?

The whole reason it exists is to give those who buy it some sort of advantage where they don't have enough desirable capacity to properly manage their crowd levels.

Nobody wants to pay $35 and find out the only things available are Carousel of Progress and Philharmagic... They'd need to offer a Genie+ option for guest relations to handle the complaints... and it would be overflowing.

I mean price it to a degree that it would limit usage, organically - not with an artificial cap to keep Genie+ lines from being as long as current standby lines. They don't want to do that. They don't want to reduce the number of people using it more than it is.

This was not a product that was conceived as a service for anyone. That's why it's not an included benefit to staying on property.

Prices will continue to go up but not to the point that fewer people buy into it.

In case you didn't catch my reference a few pages back to the OG desert party - look up how much the MK fireworks desert party launched at and then look at the price today.

That's where this is headed.

You don't need to be condescending. I'm not an idiot.

What price do you think Disney should be charging in order to limit usage "organically"?

 

[MrPromey]

You don't need to be condescending. I'm not an idiot.

What price do you think Disney should be charging in order to limit usage "organically"?

Wait... So I try to point out that I think you already understand and you say you are "genuinely puzzled".

I explain, since you claim to be so flummoxed and now that makes me condescending?

You're not engaging in a good-faith conversation.

 

[LittleBuford]

Wait... So I try to point out that I think you already understand and you say you are "genuinely puzzled".

I explain since you claim to be so flummoxed and now that makes me condescending?

You're not engaging in a good-faith conversation.

I was referring to your use of such phrases as "I assume you already understand that, right?"

At any rate, I don't think any exchange between us is going to go well. Thank you for clarifying what you meant earlier, and good night.

 

[MrPromey]

I was referring to your use of such phrases as "I assume you already understand that, right?"

At any rate, I don't think any exchange between us is going to go well. Thank you for clarifying what you meant earlier, and good night.

Did you in fact not understand that?

Is that what you're mad about?

... Or did you actually understand it?

Because if you did understand (which I'm pretty sure you did - I don't think you're stupid), I'm back to being confused about this whole exchange where you pretend to not know what I'm talking about and then are somehow offended.

Anyway, the organic limiting price point is the point where the majority of guests would not consider paying for it.

I don’t know what that is. I imagine Disney does or at least, knows how to go about finding out.

It's the point where it sees less adoption (not where people are mad they didn't get the chance to buy it) which opens up more slots for the people who do buy in to get more usage, where they're given the ability to use it on more of their first-choice picks, and where it has less of a negative impact on the "standby" lines for people who don't buy in.

It’s the point that would make a lot of people here perfectly happy with the current price, start to talk about feeling priced out and probably angry.

Supposedly, it's what they were doing when they started variable pricing way back with park tickets - I think most of us have come to accept that motive was complete BS with how they went about doing it and then began applying to to basically everything in a similar way - just enough to keep people willing to pay even if begrudgingly.

Again, Disney doesn't want their pricing to actually limit adoption with any of this.

With Genie+ we don't just have to assume or believe it, either, because Bob C. gushed about initial adoption being so high when they rolled it out.

He showed their hand. He was really awful about doing that kind of thing.

They're trying to price it for maximum adoption.

You were here for that so I know you know that.

So many people used it that selections sucked and people were pi$$ed.

The problem with maximum adoption for guests is it ensures lines will always be long for those without it.

For Disney, that's a feature. That makes it appear to be a must-have add-on with the offer of increasing a daily attraction count by 2-3 attractions... or possibly more.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that's the number of guaranteed FP+ reservations people could make under the previously free system.

They’ll continue to raise prices but in the same way you boil a frog.

This product has done and will continue to do what they were after which was effectively raise admission without actually raising admission.

Actually, they did that, too, I guess, but I know you know what I mean.

 

[StarshipDisney]

In no way trying to be rude, but trust me, you and your few friends will not be missed - by WDW or the rest of us who still go there. Indeed, I wish more people saw things your way, such that there would be shorter lines for everyone else. Anyway, enjoy the other places that you will travel to!

That's OK. I am not alone, and Disney is manufacturing more folks like me every day. Like I said I'll do my small part to damage the Brand. Every little bit helps.

 

[GhostHost1000]

It would be like Disney charging $100+ for their system and giving it away to their deluxe resorts, too.

I like that idea (as a dvc member)

 

[JusticeDisney]

That's OK. I am not alone, and Disney is manufacturing more folks like me every day. Like I said I'll do my small part to damage the Brand. Every little bit helps.

Well, that’s what I keep hearing some people say. And then I look at the parks and they are stuffed to the gills and the resorts are full and dining reservations are next to impossible to get and G+ is selling out and things like that, so I doubt very much that your actions are going to change a single thing. What you have to keep in mind is that, for every person who thinks like you, there are about 10 gazillion more who still think that WDW (despite its faults) is a great place to be. Anyway, do what you gotta do!

 

[Riviera Rita]

A gallon of gas is $3.50. Chanel #5 is $160.00 for 3.5 ounces. Stop comparing the two because they are completely different products.

Don't even start me on printer ink.

 

[StarshipDisney]

And then I look at the parks and they are stuffed to the gills and the resorts are full and dining reservations are next to impossible to get and G+ is selling out and things like that,

Well, we can agree on that much anyway.

What you have to keep in mind is that, for every person who thinks like you, there are about 10 gazillion more who still think that WDW (despite its faults) is a great place to be.

Time will tell. We'll see.

 

[DCBaker]

Even earlier today - Genie+ is now sold out.

 

[pdude81]

Even earlier today - Genie+ is now sold out.

View attachment 708892

This weekend should be interesting. I wonder if they can sell this thing out before park opening.

 

[FutureCEO]

$50 bucks by Christmas

 

[Patcheslee]

Even earlier today - Genie+ is now sold out.

View attachment 708892

I wonder how much of this is influenced by the previous day sellouts. i.e. a guest hears it sells out so they purchase earlier than they plan.

 

[MrPromey]

I wonder how much of this is influenced by the previous day sellouts. i.e. a guest hears it sells out so they purchase earlier than they plan.

That's probably it.

I don't know if you've tried to get your hands on anything "hot" in recent years but it's the same story again and again. The more times people try to get it and fail, the more they double down on efforts to get it the next time around.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

A gallon of gas is $3.50. Chanel #5 is $160.00 for 3.5 ounces. Stop comparing the two because they are completely different products.

Tell me about it. My wife ran out of Chanel #5 so I sprayed her with some gasoline and she was not as appreciative as I expected. I even used the high-octane stuff!

 

[Patcheslee]

Tell me about it. My wife ran out of Chanel #5 so I sprayed her with some gasoline and she was not as appreciative as I expected. I even used the high-octane stuff!

Try WD-40 next time, it's not too bad lol

 

[Purduevian]

Universal’s Al’s carts pricing for their system is more about creating artificial value for their resort guests than direct sales.

Only about 2100 rooms get it... i would say majority are ala carte. Also the fact that none if the new hotels get it. So yeah I'm comparing the $ per ride on G+ and EP sales because both things exist and are sold.

 

[MrPromey]

Only about 2100 rooms get it... i would say majority are ala carte. Also the fact that none if the new hotels get it. So yeah I'm comparing the $ per ride on G+ and EP sales because both things exist and are sold.

Looking at how empty the line for that side is for most rides for most of the day on every visit I've made in the last year with an AP, while considering typical attendance and even maximum capacity in these two parks are, it would be difficult for me to imagine that even remotely close to half of them are a la carte.

It's 2,400 rooms that have access from the three hotels that are eligible. At a conservative 82% occupancy, that would be 1968 rooms. Lets say 2.5 people per room which is also low since standard rooms sleep up to 5 and almost 100 rooms are suites.

But going with what are likely low average numbers, that works out to 4,920 people.

The two parks combined have a maximum capacity of about 56,000 people which on a typical day, they never come anywhere close to hitting.

If you're a Harry Potter fan and spend a big chunk of time in those two areas, you might get the wrong impression about how many people are in the two parks, though - especially Diagon Alley.

With all that in mind, I'd find it completely believable that Express Pass usage hovers around 12-15% of total guests on most days before 4pm.*

I can't see how even remotely close to 5k people are paying for it on a typical day which is roughly what you'd need for a low estimate to call them the majority.

Frankly, I would have a hard time imagining even a third of that doing it, most days.

The only time I ever see it start to pick up (and also when wait times tick up a bit) is in the late afternoons which is when the top tier AP holders are allowed to use it, too.

Of course, I don't go during winter break and times like this week. I'm sure the a la carte is a lot higher at the moment but of course, rooms are closer to 100% capacity with more people per room, too.

That said, while value is entirely subjective, I can't see any reason for someone to pay for it outside of a handful of holiday weeks unless they can't spend a complete day because the only ride we've seen with a consistently long wait is Hagrads. Most have posted wait times of 45 minutes or less for most big chunks of the day.** Often, almost everything hits somewhere between 10-30 minutes posted wait time at some point.

... and almost without exception, those posted wait times are longer than the actual wait times.

I swear, a posted wait for Forbidden Journey of 20 minutes is just their estimate of how long it'll take you to walk that massive queue that they can't shorten to get to the loading platform.

Apples and... staplers are also both things that exist and are sold. I wouldn't see the point in trying to compare them either but have at it - we'll have to agree to disagree.

*They're typically low usage which is why they're able to do it without reservations and allow unlimited re-rides for the resort guests and top tier AP holders who are allowed to use it every day after 4pm without killing their regular lines.

**Velosicoaster and Gringots are two possible exceptions but both - especially Gringots also have periods with shorter waits - you just have to watch more for them. We did Gringots back-to-back 3 times around 1pm on our last visit on a Saturday about a month ago followed up by the mummy 2 times immediately after)

 

[Jrb1979]

Looking at how empty the line for that side is for most rides for most of the day on every visit I've made in the last year with an AP, while considering typical attendance and even maximum capacity in these two parks are, it would be difficult for me to imagine that even remotely close to half of them are a la carte.

It's 2,400 rooms that have access from the three hotels that are eligible. At a conservative 82% occupancy, that would be 1968 rooms. Lets say 2.5 people per room which is also low since standard rooms sleep up to 5 and almost 100 rooms are suites.

But going with what are likely low average numbers, that works out to 4,920 people.

The two parks combined have a maximum capacity of about 56,000 people which on a typical day, they never come anywhere close to hitting.

If you're a Harry Potter fan and spend a big chunk of time in those two areas, you might get the wrong impression about how many people are in the two parks, though - especially Diagon Alley.

With all that in mind, I'd find it completely believable that Express Pass usage hovers around 12-15% of total guests on most days before 4pm.*

I can't see how even remotely close to 5k people are paying for it on a typical day which is roughly what you'd need for a low estimate to call them the majority.

Frankly, I would have a hard time imagining half that doing it, most days.

The only time I ever see it start to pick up (and also when wait times tick up a bit) is in the late afternoons which is when the top tier AP holders are allowed to use it, too.

Of course, I don't go during winter break and times like this week. I'm sure the a la carte is a lot higher at the moment - maybe even as high as 30% but of course, rooms are closer to 100% capacity with more people per room, too.

That said, while value is entirely subjective, I can't see any reason for someone to pay for it outside of a handful of holiday weeks unless they can't spend a complete day because the only ride we've seen with a consistently long wait is Hagrads. Most have posted wait times of 45 minutes or less for most big chunks of the day.** Often, everything hits somewhere between 10-30 minutes posted wait time at some point.

... and almost without exception, those posted wait times are longer than the actual wait times.

I swear, a posted wait for Forbidden Journey of 20 minutes is just their estimate of how long it'll take you to walk that massive queue that they can't shorten to get to the loading platform.

Apples and... staplers are also both things that exist and are sold. I wouldn't see the point in trying to compare them either but have at it - we'll have to agree to disagree.

*They're typically low usage is why they're able to do it without reservations and allow unlimited re-rides for the resort guests and top tier AP holders who are allowed to use it every day after 4pm.

**Velosicoaster and Gringots are two possible exceptions but both - especially Gringots also have periods with shorter waits - you just have to watch more for them. We did Gringots back-to-back 3 times around 1pm on our last visit on a Saturday about a month ago followed up by the mummy 2 times immediately after)

There is a difference in how Disney views Genie+ to how Universal views Express pass. Universal doesn't want everyone to have Express pass, hence why it's priced so high. That's also why IMO it works better then Genie+.