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Jungle Cruise Re-Imagining

Ellen Ripley

Well-Known Member
Thats not the story we are in....we (as the people on the boat) are not colonizing (in that context) we are venturing into the jungle like many famous explorers did. (The explorers themselves did not often colonize) what there goverments did after is another matter. Depicting a tribe that may have never seen any other humans ever as hostile is not a stretch....our boat loaded up with commisions and a charter from the East india trading company however is.
Right, the story we are in assumes the best intentions from the white people, and the worst intentions from the dark people.
The white people wrote the story of the ride. Do you understand yet?
 

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
I’m all for these updates, but African tribes peoples have/do exist. Do we pretend they don’t? Destroy any documentation that people were like that? I find that more racist.
Headhunting was practiced by the Celts in Ireland into the Middle Ages. Should that get a display in EPCOT's U.K. pavilion?

What you *imagine* to be *typical African tribal* practices, ain't. Colonizers didn't bring back stories of all the tribes that would seem to be normal for an agrarian society, they brought back stories of the most sensational things they saw: headhunting, lip plates, fierce Zulu warriors.

Why Zulu warriors? Because they were at war with them as they attempted to enslave them. Caricatures of an enemies' soldiers usually get top billing over what a typical farmer looked like.

These perverse caricatures and sensationalism of extreme practices (even though they weren't widely practiced) became the legends of returning soldiers' stories, which became novelized in pulp fiction and cheesy movies. Also, these extreme practices could be found in the history of every continent, not just Africa.

Many of these Colonialists had already white-washed (literally) their own tribal histories of barbarism (literally)... at the same time not recognizing the barbarism of what they were doing to those they were colonizing.

I don't understand how people can bemoan that the changes in EPCOT are no longer educational and yet, at the same time, not be demanding that false caricatures, that are antithetical to being educative, be removed from a ride.
 

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
They’re just setting a precedent.

What does this have to do with anything? The Haunted Mansion does not include any ethnic stereotypes, as far as I know of anyway, and that is the main purpose of the jungle cruise refurb. Remove the ethnic stereotypes. Why the hell would they remove the hanging man? Because it’s scary? THE ENTIRE FIRST HALF IS MEANT TO BE SCARY. THAT’S THE POINT.
I think they don’t want to make light of suicide.

And also all the HM characters are “white” so there isn’t any other representation there.

I don’t agree with this at all but that’s the logic behind it.
 

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
African tribal people do exist, but fetishizing them and their culture as a butt of a joke is at it's base racist imperialist ideas.

But Disney practices modern-day imperialism so -- just spitballin' -- maybe they ought to leave it in as a tribute to those imperialists who came before?
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
I do not hold the Jungle Cruise in my heart as a beloved attraction, but I appreciate those who do. I think this makes sense and sounds like a good compromise. Do we know if the added explorers and chimps will be static or have some movement? Would be cool to see some more advanced AA's added to the ride. And the projections would be a cool affect in the cave portion.

I definitely see Disney making changes to a lot of their rides in the future. Splash still hurts and I may never get over it, but this ride I do understand the depictions of the "other" as bad as being problematic. But, for those fearful of changes to the haunted mansion, IF they did remove the hanging man from the opening scene, does it really change that much? The voice can still say "there's always my way" and then the doors open. It makes it seem like "his way" is to go through the mansion. I think that would be an easy fix.
 

999th Happy Haunt

Well-Known Member
I agree that the “natives” would be angry and maybe even aggressive (though more probably scared) when a foreign group shows up, but what is the joke in that scenario?
Running joke throughout the Jungle Cruise is that we’re in constant peril but not really. A gorilla points a gun at us, hippos threaten to sink us, crocodiles lurk by the water, an ancient temple we enter is guarded by a tiger, and we get dangerously close to a waterfall to name a few. Being ambushed by a tribe with skulls of a previous crew is just another scene in that list.
 

MisterPenguin

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Premium Member
I think they don’t want to make light of suicide.

And also all the HM characters are “white” so there isn’t any other representation there.

I don’t agree with this at all but that’s the logic behind it.
Not all slippery slopes wind up being slid down.

E.g., predictions of all references to alligators being removed from WDW after the unfortunate fatal attack from a few years ago didn't Pan out. That slippery slope had brakes.

So, it's a bit fallacious to jump to the conclusion that Disney will remove anything mildly upsetting to a very few people with personal issues related to that thing is going to happen.
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
Nothing problematic about about portraying africans as savages? Are you actually kidding me? So far, this change has gotten nothing but cautious optimism from this board, even the folks who openly opposed changes to Splash are coming out in support of this. So tell me, sir, what does that say about you?

What it says about me? It says nothing. The ride shows Trader Sam getting the better of the 'tourists' coming to the jungle, indeed the tribes are in fact defending their land. Whilst you are on the ride itself you are transported to an era of exploration, many parts of Africa and S.America in the real world which never saw explorers.

Only a fool could actually infer such things but as the old rhyme we teach children:
Sticks and stones may break my bones
But words shall never hurt me.

Its all right if something offends someone - please if the current Jungle Cruise offends people don't go on it.
 

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
Not all slippery slopes wind up being slid down.

E.g., predictions of all references to alligators being removed from WDW after the unfortunate fatal attack from a few years ago didn't Pan out. That slippery slope had brakes.

So, it's a bit fallacious to jump to the conclusion that Disney will remove anything mildly upsetting to a very few people with personal issues related to that thing is going to happen.
I just commented rumors (from reliable insiders) I’ve read posted here about Haunted Mansion and possible changes related to the new goal to diversify and make attractions less offensive. I’m not saying it’s happening or even that I agree.
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
View attachment 526752View attachment 526753

So, we're getting 5 characters (from bottom up)...
The Skipper/Captain​
The Navigator/Cartographer​
The Artist​
The Butterfly Naturalist​
The Bird Naturalist​

And as one can see, the five chimps mock the five 'skippers,' each taking on their role.

So, if that is *the* Skipper/Captain, it won't be in the likeness of The Rock.
Thank you! I did not even think to inspect the ship for similarities!
 
Running joke throughout the Jungle Cruise is that we’re in constant peril but not really. A gorilla points a gun at us, hippos threaten to sink us, crocodiles lurk by the water, an ancient temple we enter is guarded by a tiger, and we get dangerously close to a waterfall to name a few. Being ambushed by a tribe with skulls of a previous crew is just another scene in that list.
For anyone interested "uncontacted" tribes do still exist in the world today though decreasing in number.

 

_caleb

Well-Known Member
What it says about me? It says nothing. The ride shows Trader Sam getting the better of the 'tourists' coming to the jungle, indeed the tribes are in fact defending their land. Whilst you are on the ride itself you are transported to an era of exploration, many parts of Africa and S.America in the real world which never saw explorers.

Only a fool could actually infer such things but as the old rhyme we teach children:


Its all right if something offends someone - please if the current Jungle Cruise offends people don't go on it.
It’s alright to be honest and fair even if nobody is offended by your dishonesty and bias.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
View attachment 526746Am I the only one who has a feeling this "Animated Skipper Figure" will turn out to be The Rock and they're not telling us its him yet for whatever reason?
The D23 article did explicitly say that no movie tie in plans were a part of this update. However, this could be designed in a way where the Animated Skipper Figure can be swapped out for Dwayne Johnson if the movie is successful.

It also seems that this project will take place in 2021 with more details coming this summer. Putting this on the same table as the Jack Sparrow additions to Pirates, that took two months. By comparison, the Redd addition took 3 weeks. Assuming the timetable for this is closer to the Jack Sparrow additions, I would think that September/October makes the most sense for these changes.

Does anyone have any actual insight on the timeline beyond my speculation?
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member

Look. I get updating the attraction. But "more inclusive"? Hardly. It's a bunch of white skippers stuck up on that pole. But maybe in this SJW woke world, they're guilty of being white and deserve it.
 

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