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Journey of Water featuring Moana coming to Epcot

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Have you seen the plans and details? I wish someone would spill a little more detail because everything they have released to date makes it look like a glorified splash pad... Though I understand you say it is not...And I am very glad to hear that...
I have a hard time understanding it myself, but in my head it's along the lines of the scope and scale of Swiss Family Treehouse. Maybe that's too optimistic.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I get it that people are upset about the "potential" for the space that - very arguably IMHO - could have been utilized "better' than what is replacing it. But the hate and criticism JoW gets is absolutely insane due to people being unable to judge it objectively on its own merits rather than comparing it to whatever mythical awesome Communicore reborn that exists only in their own minds could have been done instead.
A lot of the praise for Journey of Water is based on a mythical conception of this massive experience connecting The Seas and The Land.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Regarding the symmetry of Innoventions, I think it is a fascinating thing that people are really bothered by it being "off" but how much of that is just because it is different than what we've grown used to for 3 decades?

More specifically, East and West FW were never symmetric - only the hub itself was. In fact, as many have pointed out, the building on East and West were intentioned designed to be very different. East was more geometric shapes and linear designs with straight rigid structures based on "hard sciences". West was more whimsical with curved lines and less defined shapes. The most structured being the pyramid of Imagination but even that was make of clear panels to be have an ethereal appearance.

Why would Innoventions have to be symmetrical? I think it actually makes sense to continue the East/West dichotomy. The physical appearance of Innoventions as a semi-circle fits in more with East and harmonizes with those structures. You kind of have a look of a post-modern cityscape on that side of the park.

In tearing down Innoventions West, and replacing it with a landscaped water area with (seemingly) labyrinthine paths and lush greenery, it fits in so much better with the pavilions already on the eastern half of the front of Epcot. Obviously, execution matters and I don't know what JoW will end up being like, but as a pre-show to the Seas and in the area of the Land, I think it will make that whole area more distinct and unified. It strikes me as a change that is actually logical. If the attraction also has a edutainment quality in addition to looking pretty and providing a respite from the drab concrete of other parts of (old) FW than all the better.

I know it's unpopular around here, but I'm also one of those who felt that Innoventions (especially West) has been a big waste of space for a long time. And actually more annoying because it was a barrier between the actually good stuff in Epcot and actually made it harder to get around by making it tougher to figure out which side of the park was which.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually optimistic about whatever festival center gets built. And I do wish that whatever is done there harmonizes and has some attraction capacity in addition to food (why not exhibit space or a theater on the first floor, restaurant on the second, then the rooftop beer garden or whatever?). I guess we'll see what we end up getting.
 
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doctornick

Well-Known Member
A lot of the praise for Journey of Water is based on a mythical conception of this massive experience connecting The Seas and The Land.

There's a lot of praise? I must have missed it. Seems like most of the positive commentary is that it looks pretty, adds much needed landscaping and seems to have some edutainment value and decent connection to the Seas. Is anyone saying it is going to be "massive"?

It's a smaller scale complimentary attraction that will look nice. Even Disney as much as they overhype things doesn't seem to be suggesting it will be anything more than that.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I have a hard time understanding it myself, but in my head it's along the lines of the scope and scale of Swiss Family Treehouse. Maybe that's too optimistic.

I think it will have a larger footprint just to the nature of the attraction (SFT is multiple levels while this will be I assume all ground level) but it seems to me that's the appropriate comp. I'm curious if it will have one set path through where it is linear like the Treehouse or of there are multiple paths and you "wander" more to see everything.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
For me, it's the loss of FoN (especially) and symmetry that bother me most.

On this note - and I'm still confused about it - I thought the plan was to put in a new (dancing?) fountain as part of the whole central spine build? It's one of those things that I think Disney stated but then doesn't really talk about so maybe it was dropped? Or maybe it's dependent on what happens with the festival center? Or Dreamer's point (is that still on?)

Geez, I realize that's a lot of question marks, I guess because a lot of this seems completely up in the air or ill defined.

I'm not wedded to the FoN as it was but I do strongly feel that a proper fountain should be in the central area and hopefully one survives as part of the plans.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
On this note - and I'm still confused about it - I thought the plan was to put in a new (dancing?) fountain as part of the whole central spine build? It's one of those things that I think Disney stated but then doesn't really talk about so maybe it was dropped? Or maybe it's dependent on what happens with the festival center? Or Dreamer's point (is that still on?)

Geez, I realize that's a lot of question marks, I guess because a lot of this seems completely up in the air or ill defined.

I'm not wedded to the FoN as it was but I do strongly feel that a proper fountain should be in the central area and hopefully one survives as part of the plans.
Last I knew there WAS supposed to be a replacement for FoN...but what exactly that means, I don't think we were given any details. And no, it doesn't get talked about, so I'm praying it hasn't been nixed.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
The thing about Communicore West was that it defined the core..It shaped the hub. Without it, there is no "center" to place a new interactive fountain (FON Replacement)...it feels like a ponderous space with no focus except for the vaguely Moana Inspired JOW....
The two arcing buildings that defined the core of futureworld gave the first half of the park it's organizational Hub... Which pavilions are on either side or their architecture does not harm the symmetry...but to have a central jumping off place... Which was an integral part of all the original Disney parks. As times have changed the newer parks have moved from that model a bit...and they don't (to me) feel as comfortable as the classic Disney Hub designed park...EPCOT with an oddly defined "neighborhood" system feels random and confusing...but again, it could be because we don't really have all the information yet...
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Future World West is far more visually striking than Future World East. One of the best things about inventions west being taken down is the newly established site lines.

It’s like the anti-oil rig. Sight lines are improved.
Those site lines are the result of budget cuts. They were supposed to be blocked.
 

Incomudro

Well-Known Member
I agree. I was there in the 80s and my family did not take the time to savor communicore (nor did we in the decades afterward). I had read about Club Cool for more than a decade before we actually found it. We found SOAT only because we actively searched for it.

I miss the idea of the symmetry of the plaza; but I do not miss the buildings themselves. I suppose investigating them could have yielded things that may have been interesting, but I don't visit Florida on vacation to spend time in what appear to be office buildings visiting experiences very similar to those we maybe would do at our children's museum at home. iirc, Extreme Weather was one of their offerings. Really?
I'm going to add that the unfortunate high crowd levels of the parks in the present day would rarely allow for the type of interactive activities and displays of the good old days.
There simply wouldn't be enough room a large portion of the time to even get to such things.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Future World West is far more visually striking than Future World East. One of the best things about inventions west being taken down is the newly established site lines.

It’s like the anti-oil rig. Sight lines are improved.
When the plan is completed to the best of my knowledge there will be no sightlines...There was supposed to be berms and huge trees and the JOW which would effectively block the views of the West Pavilions...
But it will be a stunning view of the event lawn and kiosk space....I guess.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Regarding the symmetry of Innoventions, I think it is a fascinating thing that people are really bothered by it being "off" but how much of that is just because it is different than what we've grown used to for 3 decades?

More specifically, East and West FW were never symmetric - only the hub itself was. In fact, as many have pointed out, the building on East and West were intentioned designed to be very different. East was more geometric shapes and linear designs with straight rigid structures based on "hard sciences". West was more whimsical with curved lines and less defined shapes. The most structured being the pyramid of Imagination but even that was make of clear panels to be have an ethereal appearance.

Why would Innoventions have to be symmetrical? I think it actually makes sense to continue the East/West dichotomy. The physical appearance of Innoventions as a semi-circle fits in more with East and harmonizes with those structures. You kind of have a look of a post-modern cityscape on that side of the park.

In tearing down Innoventions West, and replacing it with a landscaped water area with (seemingly) labyrinthine paths and lush greenery, it fits in so much better with the pavilions already on the eastern half of the front of Epcot. Obviously, execution matters and I don't know what JoW will end up being like, but as a pre-show to the Seas and in the area of the Land, I think it will make that whole area more distinct and unified. It strikes me as a change that is actually logical. If the attraction also has a edutainment quality in addition to looking pretty and providing a respite from the drab concrete of other parts of (old) FW than all the better.

I know it's unpopular around here, but I'm also one of those who felt that Innoventions (especially West) has been a big waste of space for a long time. And actually more annoying because it was a barrier between the actually good stuff in Epcot and actually made it harder to get around by making it tougher to figure out which side of the park was which.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually optimistic about whatever festival center gets built. And I do wish that whatever is done there harmonizes and has some attraction capacity in addition to food (why not exhibit space or a theater on the first floor, restaurant on the second, then the rooftop beer garden or whatever?). I guess we'll see what we end up getting.
Spatial organization. The difference between a random suburban sprawl and a designed space. CommuniCore was the organizing element that gave Future World a spatial definition. You didn’t have random buildings plopped down wherever, they were organized. Now the new neighborhoods are just random buildings plopped down. There is no clear delineation of the different lands. People can’t nearly draw the boundaries and even Disney can’t get it right or consistent. You could look at an aerial or even figure-ground of EPCOT Center and understand that Future World and world Showcase were distinct without any other knowledge. That can’t be done with the neighborhoods. In order to know where you are will require signage because there will be nothing in how space is built that distinguishes the new lands. They’re the stuff sort of in this area.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
BTW, even as someone who things JoW looks like a solid addition, I would totally agree that it is taking far too long to build, will likely cost way too much and will probably use space more inefficiently than it should. I don't think anyone is really suggesting everything about this project is positive, only that it's more harshly criticized than it deserves.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
As opposed to those longing for the way it was, and never will be again. Anything is an improvement over an empty concrete building with no plans to be used.
And again, Disney must be absolutely giddy at the idea that people want empty space instead of attractions and experiences. The grass is sure to be magical.
 

Phicinfan

Well-Known Member
And again, Disney must be absolutely giddy at the idea that people want empty space instead of attractions and experiences. The grass is sure to be magical.
And again, what empty space? The empty block building that had no purpose and sat there reminding us over and over of what will never be? Or the potential of some new space that has potential tie in and opens up to better landscape and tie into the world of Nature?

Glass isn't half full, it isn't half empty. I just took my drink of what was given ;)
 

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