I'm so tired of frivilous lawsuits! Tigger is innocent!

[missy28]

Atta-- do you have any specific examples of children being told to lie? I can see a younger child, say preschool age, be coerced into lying, but a 13 year old? I was too pigheaded at 13 to actually let someone TELL me to lie-- especially when I'd taken an oath to tell the truth. Also, you have to qualify child witnesses-- meaning, you have to get them to answer questions on the record in front of the jury as to whether or not they know what the difference is between a lie and the truth and what would the consequences be if they lied. Kids understand this, sometimes I think, better than adults!!

Peeplmoovr-- let's start the Disney Bar Association-- I know where we can have our yearly meetings!! :sohappy:

 

[barnum42]

Atta-- do you have any specific examples of children being told to lie? I can see a younger child, say preschool age, be coerced into lying, but a 13 year old? I was too pigheaded at 13 to actually let someone TELL me to lie-- especially when I'd taken an oath to tell the truth. Also, you have to qualify child witnesses-- meaning, you have to get them to answer questions on the record in front of the jury as to whether or not they know what the difference is between a lie and the truth and what would the consequences be if they lied. Kids understand this, sometimes I think, better than adults!!

For a muliti million dollar payout at the end of it I can believe a thirteen year old would lie. Whether it be out of personal greed or at the fear of what the parent will do to it if they don't "get with the program" would then be the question.

 

[Atta83]

I had a friend of mine growing up who had her best friend taken away (they were later forced to move after this horrific battle) because ppl thought she was being abused by her parents. Well to make things short they would not let her go and such until she told the truth. She told them the same story hundreds of times until she got sick of it and then told a fib and wham her parents thrown into jail. Well this was until someone found the correct records and her parents went free.

Also, if a child is told to lie by her parents or by someone they say is important they will do it. I mean yeah she can take an oath and all but does that really mean anything. Most children and teenagers will do anything that their parents ask them to do.

 

[chancellor]

There is a middle-of-the road possibility here (and in my opinion the most probable one). That is, that Tigger accidentally touched this girl in an inappropriate area, which she misinterpreted as groping. If that is the case, then the Tigger guy is not guilty, as the prosecution must prove that he intentionally fondled her. Under this scenario, the girl is not lying, but Tigger is also not guilty.

On the other hand, even if he is found guilty, I don't see a big payout here. I'm a lawyer (*ducks to avoid being pelted with rocks and garbage*) and I don't see how this girl suffered significant damages. Unlike the poor soul who was killed on BTMRR in Disneyland. That case is worth some bucks.

 

[ral8026]

Sorry Missy but sometime kids do lie-remember the McMartin Case.I hope the truth comes out either way.

 

[MKCP 1985]

[M]y theory as a prosecutor is that unless you are ON the JURY, you have no ability (or right) to say one way or they other because you haven't heard the evidence. You can only specualte at best.

But, in my most humble of opinions, I know that I as a prosecutor would never indict someone who I didn't feel was guilty, and in fact, we take an oath to that effect. (Defense attorneys don't have to take an oath...) So, we should just wait and let the jury do what they are picked to do-- find the truth.

Come on, Missy28. You know better than that. The oath every Florida attorney takes (even those who defend individuals charged with crimes) and is printed as a reminder in each month's Florida Bar Journal magazine says: "I will employ for the purpose of maintaining the causes confided to me such means only as are consistent with truth and honor, and will never seek to mislead the judge or jury by any artifice or false statement of fact or law;"

By the way, I agree completely with your statement that only the jury in this case will have enough of the facts to say whether the man committed a crime. The rest of us are speculating.

Civilieng, as to your thread title, you have painted with a very broad brush. If the man intended to fondle the girl and did fondle her and that is proven through evidence consisting of witness testimony and photographs and Tigger suits, and whatever other evidence is properly allowed, then the man is guilty of a crime under the laws of the State of Florida and the prosecution is not guilty of bringing a frivolous lawsuit. Likewise, if the victim is harmed, she is not guilty of bringing frivolous litigation to have the man pay her for the harm he has caused. It is that simple. Sorry you don't like it, but I think it is much better than fighting it out in the streets.

 

[chancellor]

Civilieng, as to your thread title, you have painted with a very broad brush. If the man intended to fondle the girl and did fondle her and that is proven through evidence consisting of witness testimony and photographs and Tigger suits, and whatever other evidence is properly allowed, then the man is guilty of a crime under the laws of the State of Florida and the prosecution is not guilty of bringing a frivolous lawsuit. Likewise, if the victim is harmed, she is not guilty of bringing frivolous litigation to have the man pay her for the harm he has caused. It is that simple. Sorry you don't like it, but I think it is much better than fighting it out in the streets.

Exactly. I never understood how people could consider a lawsuit in which the jury found for the Plaintiff to be frivolous.

 

[GoofMaul]

The witch hunts of the 1600's where caused by people's inability to believe that children were lying so lets not make the same mistake. Adults lie and children lie and both can lie for more than getting out of trouble. BTW, some prosecutors lie too.

That being said evidence is what is going to matter most in this he said she said case. Without it, it would be very difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. It does sound like many people here have already made up their minds that this guy is guilty or that this family is looking for money. Lets remember innocent until PROVEN guilty. This motto should be used for both sides here. After all, it could be what Chancellor said and could just be a big misunderstanding.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Atta-- do you have any specific examples of children being told to lie? I can see a younger child, say preschool age, be coerced into lying, but a 13 year old? I was too pigheaded at 13 to actually let someone TELL me to lie-- especially when I'd taken an oath to tell the truth. Also, you have to qualify child witnesses-- meaning, you have to get them to answer questions on the record in front of the jury as to whether or not they know what the difference is between a lie and the truth and what would the consequences be if they lied. Kids understand this, sometimes I think, better than adults!!

Indeed they understand the consequences. With a possible multi-million dollar payout from a multi billion dollar company and never having to do anythign again for their entire life, what's a little white lie? Seems pretty simple and straightforward to me.

 

[Miss Bell]

I know I really should keep my 2 cents to myself on this, but what the heck? I think my problem comes in with both the mother and daughter saying they were fondled. I'm no crime expert, but would someone who is a "child molestor" also be interested in fondling an adult woman? My gut reaction is that the girl was accidently touched, it made her uncomfortable, a few days later she told her parents, who got the whole ball rolling.

Sadly, I think this is a situation where either the girl or the CM is an innocent victim, and since much of this trial will be based on each person's testimony, we will probably never know for sure what happened.

Don't get me wrong, if it was my daughter, I'd want justice. I sure wouldn't want the guy working at a job around kids, but it all seems weird to me. The whole purpose of posing with a character is to get your picture taken--if you were the CM would you take your chances getting caught on film?

 

[rosebud's mom]

My humble 2 cents. I think the worst thing we as a nation can do is try someone in the public forum before the courts have even begun or finished. That said, with the way our instant access to news keeps us much more informed now than we ever were, we can't help but have opinions no matter how mcuh we try to remain neutral. As to 13 years olds and the issue of lying - it isn't a pretty world anymore. I worked for several years as a teacher of middle school - which would include 13 year old children. You must take inot account that not all children are raised by parents who teach them ANY basic human decency. They learn how to "work the system" before they hit puberty. Now before I geet flamed, I'm not inferring that this particular girl is lying - I don't know. I'm just saying that is is WELL within the limits of possibility. II've been going to the World since the 2nd year it existed, and I would hate to see this case cause a change in the accessibility of the characters. There are several things that I would hope the defense counsel will bring out during the trial. The size and development of the girl. In my own personal experience, I have several pictures of my children with the character's hand over my little one's face because she turned and the CM misjudged the child's size. On an even more personal note - I have for years laughed about being "felt up" by Goofy every time I've ever been in WDW. I have never thought that the CM was a pervert. I have always attributed it to the fact that I am a hair LESS than 5 feet tall and an ample C-cup !

The possibilities are endless, and I think the best thing we can hope for is that ultimately the truth will come out.

 

[AEfx]

I'm just one of those crazy people that thinks we ought to wait for the potential plaintiff to actually file a civil suit before we rip him/her for perhaps intending to do so. Perhaps there are people out there that just want to see the criminal code upheld. I also sense that everybody seems to hate other people's civil suits but think their own are valid.

Just so you know, I wasn't in any way expressing my opinion one way or the other, simply explaining what the defendant's attorney's arguments were for someone that didn't quite understand it.

AEfx

 

[Tim G]

Do people even understand the difference between a criminal trial and a civil lawsuit? The victim filed a complaint with the police, it is the local district attorney's decision whether to proceed with a criminal trial. At this point, I don't even think that the victim has filed a civil suit. I will admit, however, that if the CM is convicted of the criminal charge, I would expect a civil suit against Disney. However, to date I am not aware that one has even been brought.

No, not yet, but I'm pretty shure, they will afterwords...

 

[egionet]

I was a CM in Fantasyland/Toontown attractions in the spring. When I was being trained in Toontown attractions, my trainer warned me and my friend about this guy. She said he was know to grab the female CMs when he was giving them a hug to say hi. She also said to definitely stay away from him. I never saw him grab anyone on stage, but I surely knew he did it off stage. When I heard about an entertainment CM getting arrested, I knew that it was him. He is just a creepy guy who got his jollies in creepy ways.

 

[Sir Hiss527]

I was a CM in Fantasyland/Toontown attractions in the spring. When I was being trained in Toontown attractions, my trainer warned me and my friend about this guy. She said he was know to grab the female CMs when he was giving them a hug to say hi. She also said to definitely stay away from him. I never saw him grab anyone on stage, but I surely knew he did it off stage. When I heard about an entertainment CM getting arrested, I knew that it was him. He is just a creepy guy who got his jollies in creepy ways.

well that might be true and all..but you never know..

I am just upset to be seeing this images on the TV and all, I just can not imagine a kid watching this. Why were the TV cameras allowed in? I wish I was the juror I wanna wear the Tigger costume..since it's my dream. I am very interested to hear Michael's story. We'll see what happens.

 

[mkt]

he did have a reputation as the tickling tigger :zipit:

 

[missy28]

Aaaaaghhhhh....

I leave for less than half a day and come back to all this!! Ok, just to clarify a few things... yes, people lie. Yes, some prosecutors lie, and yes, some defense attorneys lie. But not all, and the lawyers that DO lie are the reason there are so many dang lawyer jokes. Not all kids lie, and I'm not saying there aren't examples (i.e., like the McMartin preschool case) of kids lying-- but most kids aren't gonna go that far with their lie, and would stop short (usually much shorter) than a trial.

As far as the oath of lawyers... I didn't say anything about Florida lawyers, since I'm a Georgia lawyer, and things always differ state to state.

Bottom line is this: it seems to be a very difficult case as far as proof goes, and I've thought that from the start, but that's why we have juries. I say let them sort it out. (But I know I probably wouldn't want to try this guy for molestation... there are too many questions. I think what likely happened is he just didn't know where his hands were. Case closed.)

 

[barnum42]

Are the people making these accusations in it for the money? We can't say for sure.

What's the old expression? "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck".

So far most people think it quacks like a duck (myself included), but we will have to wait for the court to find out if it has feathers and walks with a waddle or wheter it's someone with a lure whistle.

 

[General Grizz]

I was a CM in Fantasyland/Toontown attractions in the spring. When I was being trained in Toontown attractions, my trainer warned me and my friend about this guy. She said he was know to grab the female CMs when he was giving them a hug to say hi. She also said to definitely stay away from him. I never saw him grab anyone on stage, but I surely knew he did it off stage. When I heard about an entertainment CM getting arrested, I knew that it was him. He is just a creepy guy who got his jollies in creepy ways.

I wish Disney Casting would have taken action on this. . .

 

[Snapper Bean]

Are the people making these accusations in it for the money? We can't say for sure.

What's the old expression? "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, chances are it is a duck".

So far most people think it quacks like a duck (myself included), but we will have to wait for the court to find out if it has feathers and walks with a waddle or wheter it's someone with a lure whistle.

Based on what exactly have you concluded that it quacks like a duck?