If light magic premiered today it would be a hit

Disney Vault

Active Member
Original Poster
Just thinking that most fans of Disney parks aren't as critical as they were in the past. That might at first sound like a good thing but it allows disney to lower the bar and deliver less.

Just curious if others feel this way as well. Like if fans expected more than we would get more fantasy springs and less Pixar pier type stuff
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Light Magic did not just fail artistically, it failed even more operationally. It was a crowd control nightmare that was very poorly planned by the Disneyland Entertainment Dept. senior management. They tried everything they could to make it work over its 90 days; flipping the schedule and direction of travel, flipping the starting point from Small World to Main Street and back again, etc., etc.

Light Magic also created the concept of sending the maddening, and increasingly mad, crowds "backstage" for the first time on purpose. Before Light Magic, that was forbidden in Disneyland culture, but it was all they could do to keep panicked gridlock from breaking out throughout the park. They sent crowds "backstage" behind StorybookLand and dumped them out on the Big Thunder Trail, and they sent crowds backstage behind Main Street and dumped them out at the Emporium. That broke the rulebook, and Disneyland's ops teams then began doing that increasingly even after Light Magic was gone on its "hiatus".

Yes, Light Magic was a creepy and repetitive show that featured scary pixies and characters in their pajamas (turns out the Genie is a boxers man) and ended with a cringey video that looked like a bad Sears commercial. But it's operational headaches and planning failures is what really did it in. Turns out a 25 minute static "street show" doesn't work on a busy parade route.
 

Parteecia

Well-Known Member
Light Magic also created the concept of sending the maddening, and increasingly mad, crowds "backstage" for the first time on purpose. Before Light Magic, that was forbidden in Disneyland culture,
In 1977 when Space Mountain opened, the line went through Tomorrowland and up (down?) Main St., then curved backstage around the old BofA, now Disneyana, for quite a ways. It caught me very off guard to see the guests as I was walking from the lockers to head onstage. One of those things that your mind won't register because it's just wrong.

ETA I recall it as almost reaching the backside of Space.
 
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Rich T

Well-Known Member
I tend to think the opposite. There's more criticism and negativity than ever and it's amplified by social media
It’s both. There’s more criticism because the experience of visiting the parks has gotten worse, there’s less originality and less value for the dollar than in years past. But at the same time, there are still plenty of customers showing up based on the legacy of decades of good will, value and creativity from the past, unaware of how drastically many things have changed. And there’s still enough good show to elevate the product slightly above most of the competition, especially for those who did not experience how great the Disney parks used to be in past decades. Personally, I prefer Universal Orlando at this point.

But truly subpar efforts don’t last long. Recent examples include Habit Heros and the Taco Barges at Epcot. Light Magic was a big misfire in so many ways… it’s a legendary park belly flop for a reason. I’ll give it a lot of credit for trying something different and taking some risks, but… man… I can only imagine what social media would have done with it.
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
Light Magic did not just fail artistically, it failed even more operationally. It was a crowd control nightmare that was very poorly planned by the Disneyland Entertainment Dept. senior management. They tried everything they could to make it work over its 90 days; flipping the schedule and direction of travel, flipping the starting point from Small World to Main Street and back again, etc., etc.

Light Magic also created the concept of sending the maddening, and increasingly mad, crowds "backstage" for the first time on purpose. Before Light Magic, that was forbidden in Disneyland culture, but it was all they could do to keep panicked gridlock from breaking out throughout the park. They sent crowds "backstage" behind StorybookLand and dumped them out on the Big Thunder Trail, and they sent crowds backstage behind Main Street and dumped them out at the Emporium. That broke the rulebook, and Disneyland's ops teams then began doing that increasingly even after Light Magic was gone on its "hiatus".

Yes, Light Magic was a creepy and repetitive show that featured scary pixies and characters in their pajamas (turns out the Genie is a boxers man) and ended with a cringey video that looked like a bad Sears commercial. But it's operational headaches and planning failures is what really did it in. Turns out a 25 minute static "street show" doesn't work on a busy parade route.
Didn't know that this is when they opened up the backstage area, and didnt realize a road links storybook land to big thunder trail.

Light Magic sounds like a failure in every way. I remember when I started getting into Disneyland history (2005) reading Jim Hill's articles on the subject and it was amazing.

One thing I remember him mentioning was a flying drone Tinkerbell that was supposed to be part of the show. Lawyers kept fighting it appearing due to safety hazards. Midway through the show's run when it finally made its debut it crashed into the ground on Main Street, caught on fire, and cast members were stomping on tinkerbell in front of guests to put it out.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Didn't know that this is when they opened up the backstage area, and didnt realize a road links storybook land to big thunder trail.

As the very wise @Parteecia mentioned, they'd done it before to hold queue in '77 for Space Mountain.

But for Light Magic, after the first two weeks or so of utter disaster, they started opening up multiple backstage walking routes nightly and for hours at a time in multiple locations. To alleviate the disaster in the Small World Mall, they opened the gates next to the old Kodak kiosk in Fantasyland and sent everyone down the alley and through a tunnel that dumped us out on the Big Thunder Trail. And they also opened up the (rather smelly) alley from Coke Corner to the Emporium for hours every evening to help Main Street. It was utter chaos and very messy, but it at least prevented panic from breaking out in gridlocked crowds.

Light Magic sounds like a failure in every way. I remember when I started getting into Disneyland history (2005) reading Jim Hill's articles on the subject and it was amazing.

I think my favorite part of that summer was around late June, when they were getting desperate. To try and help with crowd flow, they decied to reverse the direction and order in which the show was designed to start; from Small World being the first show around 8:45 to Main Street being that first show and going in reverse. Then the stages rolled north to Small World for their second show, then back again to Main Street for the last two shows. Sometime after park closing, the stages were rolled home to the parade warehouse.

The problem is that the rolling stages were battery powered and using 1990's technology, so they had to charge up overnight and all day back in the parade warehouse behind Toontown. So to get them down behind Main Street to start the show, in early evening around 6:00 they'd roll all four massive stages silently down through the middle of the park and park them for preparations behind Main Street. They weren't designed to be seen in the daylight, much less without all the lights on and characters and pixies dancing on them, so you had these giant, hulking, creepy looking haunted forest stages rolling silently down the parade route in broad daylight.



After a few weeks of that, they got the Voice of Disneyland to boom out on repeat as the four stages rolled by... "The large rolling stages you see passing by will be used in tonight's performance of Light Magic! Please check with a Disneyland Cast Member for showtimes and viewing areas! The large rolling stages you see passing by will be used in tonight's performance...."

It was a Chef's Kiss perfection for artistic and operational failure! 😚

One thing I remember him mentioning was a flying drone Tinkerbell that was supposed to be part of the show. Lawyers kept fighting it appearing due to safety hazards. Midway through the show's run when it finally made its debut it crashed into the ground on Main Street, caught on fire, and cast members were stomping on tinkerbell in front of guests to put it out.

I wasn't there to see that, but remember hearing all about it on the Usenet forums. Seeing as how we didn't know what a drone was back then, it was described as just a remote controlled toy helicopter type thing dressed up with a Tinkerbell overlay. Like almost everything attached to Light Magic, it was an artistic and operational failure. :banghead:
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
That video I posted above is hysterical!

Watch at the 3:00 mark when the family rushes up to the stopped float and the kids climb on it, then the Small World guy in the red pants runs over and grabs the kid off the float and plops him on the ground. Then the family tries to pose for pictures and the crowd control lady CM in the blue slacks (a manager?) literally pushes them with both hands off the parade route! Hilarious!

Things were simpler and more straightforward in the 20th century. And Disneyland CM's had the ability and approval to do whatever they needed to do to get kids down, push dad out of the way, etc. 🤣
 

CaptinEO

Well-Known Member
As the very wise @Parteecia mentioned, they'd done it before to hold queue in '77 for Space Mountain.

But for Light Magic, after the first two weeks or so of utter disaster, they started opening up multiple backstage walking routes nightly and for hours at a time in multiple locations. To alleviate the disaster in the Small World Mall, they opened the gates next to the old Kodak kiosk in Fantasyland and sent everyone down the alley and through a tunnel that dumped us out on the Big Thunder Trail. And they also opened up the (rather smelly) alley from Coke Corner to the Emporium for hours every evening to help Main Street. It was utter chaos and very messy, but it at least prevented panic from breaking out in gridlocked crowds.
That’s so neat, I didn’t know about this tunnel/path, but not good show at all on Disney’s part. Seems like bad ops planning.
I think my favorite part of that summer was around late June, when they were getting desperate. To try and help with crowd flow, they decied to reverse the direction and order in which the show was designed to start; from Small World being the first show around 8:45 to Main Street being that first show and going in reverse. Then the stages rolled north to Small World for their second show, then back again to Main Street for the last two shows. Sometime after park closing, the stages were rolled home to the parade warehouse.

The problem is that the rolling stages were battery powered and using 1990's technology, so they had to charge up overnight and all day back in the parade warehouse behind Toontown. So to get them down behind Main Street to start the show, in early evening around 6:00 they'd roll all four massive stages silently down through the middle of the park and park them for preparations behind Main Street. They weren't designed to be seen in the daylight, much less without all the lights on and characters and pixies dancing on them, so you had these giant, hulking, creepy looking haunted forest stages rolling silently down the parade route in broad daylight.
This is such bad show, I can’t believe it. And did it really help that much with crowds to justify all the hassle? You are so right about them being creepy looking, and why so slow?

Seeing them roll the floats through seems like a parade broke or something going wrong, not a regular day to day operation.

I’m laughing so hard at this last ditch effort for crowd control involving so much effort, and all for a parade show that can only be seen from 2 places? What a horrible idea.


After a few weeks of that, they got the Voice of Disneyland to boom out on repeat as the four stages rolled by... "The large rolling stages you see passing by will be used in tonight's performance of Light Magic! Please check with a Disneyland Cast Member for showtimes and viewing areas! The large rolling stages you see passing by will be used in tonight's performance...."

It was a Chef's Kiss perfection for artistic and operational failure! 😚

This video is so great. You hear a guy talking to a CM throughout asking about “why are they having the parade floats go through in the daytime”? “do they really do this every day”? and how he is not interested in seeing the show, while the CM is trying to tell him “I really liked it” and “it’s really good”. He is perfectly summing up what any guest would be thinking. I wish we got the announcement on the video but maybe I didn’t hear it.
I wasn't there to see that, but remember hearing all about it on the Usenet forums. Seeing as how we didn't know what a drone was back then, it was described as just a remote controlled toy helicopter type thing dressed up with a Tinkerbell overlay. Like almost everything attached to Light Magic, it was an artistic and operational failure. :banghead:
That’s so funny people were talking about it even back then. I remember Jim Hill’s article saying it was the first time the internet had an effect on Disney as people started reporting on the fake AP Premiere Event (where Paul Pressler came out and told the paying crowd they were going to see a technical rehearsal and to expect glitches).
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
That’s so neat, I didn’t know about this tunnel/path, but not good show at all on Disney’s part. Seems like bad ops planning.

This is such bad show, I can’t believe it. And did it really help that much with crowds to justify all the hassle? You are so right about them being creepy looking, and why so slow?

In their (weak) defense, the park operation was different back then. Fantasmic! was only 5 years old and a HUGE deal that performed three times per night routinely in summer. Toontown was only 4 years old, and Roger Rabbit's Car Toon Spin was only 3 years old, and Toontown was still a major draw that stayed open until Midnight daily, so the Small World area was always crowded.

And the other problem is that inbetween the Small World set and the Main Street USA set, the Light Magic stages were parked on the parade route alongside the Matterhorn for 30 minutes or so, which closed off that entire Matterhorn parade route accessway (and bathrooms) for much of the evening after 8:00pm.

The Light Magic performances were wedged between three Fantasmic! showtimes and fireworks, so that you had four wonky and weird showtimes each night like 8:50 then 9:40, then 10:45 and 11:35. It was a mess. And if you weren't in the actual viewing area, you saw nothing. Even if you got into the right viewing area, a stage parked in front of you for 25 minutes and just sat there while pixies and characters flounced around on it. The show itself was dumb, and repetitive.

It was all a recipe for parkwide crowd control disaster on busy summer nights. For a show that wasn't good. Oh yeah, and in the summer of '97 most of Tomorrowland was walled off and inaccessible for New Tomorrowland construction. 🤣

I just made this map from memory, so some other oldtimer here can correct me if I forgot something, but...

The light green arrows are the backstage walkways the CM's practically forced you to use to move around the park. The blue dash lines are the two stage areas for showtimes, and the Small World Mall only had space for 3 stages but they had 4 stages and used all 4 only for the Main Street showtimes. If you weren't in those two limited viewing areas, you saw nothing, while over half the Disneyland parade route viewing area went unused.

The red dashed box is where the stages parked and reset for 30 minutes or so inbetween each showtime, closing that Matterhorn parade route section for most of the evening. And then of course in light blue is the Fantasmic! viewing area with 3 shows per night, ready to dump thousands of people out towards the already gridlocked Light Magic area on Main Street.

The yellow dashed boxes in Tomorrowland were walled off for construction, with only two narrow pathways between construction walls to Star Tours and Space Mountain; the rest of the land was off limits.

Stay To Your Right!.jpg
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
I'm laughing at myself today after that brain dump of a post above! :rolleyes: 🤣

When you get older, it's funny the things you remember and that come flooding back for no good reason. I just thank God the memory banks are still working like they are and I can remember this stuff! ;)
 

Disney Vault

Active Member
Original Poster
Disneyland would really benefit if they built proper paths behind main street and that path behind Casey jr. Obviously fully themed and open at all times and not just like the embarrassing walkways behind main street they have now
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
Disneyland would really benefit if they built proper paths behind main street and that path behind Casey jr. Obviously fully themed and open at all times and not just like the embarrassing walkways behind main street they have now
There is a path behind main street and it is themed. Don't they use it anymore? It's only used during parades or fireworks as an exit on packed days.
 

Disney Vault

Active Member
Original Poster
There is a path behind main street and it is themed. Don't they use it anymore? It's only used during parades or fireworks as an exit on packed days.
I wouldn't really call it themed. The east side bypass is the better of the two but still very bare bones and then the west side bypass is just an embarrassment. They need to do something like Disneyland Paris in the long run
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't really call it themed. The east side bypass is the better of the two but still very bare bones and then the west side bypass is just an embarrassment. They need to do something like Disneyland Paris in the long run
Does it look like the back of a industrial building? No. It is lightly themed no matter how bare bones. It is designed for the cattle to leave during emergencies or when Main Street is packed during fireworks or parades.

The backstage area of Knotts by Ghostrider is themed too.
 

Disney Vault

Active Member
Original Poster
Does it look like the back of a industrial building? No. It is lightly themed no matter how bare bones. It is designed for the cattle to leave during emergencies or when Main Street is packed during fireworks or parades.

The backstage area of Knotts by Ghostrider is themed too.
You call that theming? 😂

It's a fence with attraction posters. Just because it hides the backs of the buildings doesn't make it a themed area
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
As the very wise @Parteecia mentioned, they'd done it before to hold queue in '77 for Space Mountain.

But for Light Magic, after the first two weeks or so of utter disaster, they started opening up multiple backstage walking routes nightly and for hours at a time in multiple locations. To alleviate the disaster in the Small World Mall, they opened the gates next to the old Kodak kiosk in Fantasyland and sent everyone down the alley and through a tunnel that dumped us out on the Big Thunder Trail. And they also opened up the (rather smelly) alley from Coke Corner to the Emporium for hours every evening to help Main Street. It was utter chaos and very messy, but it at least prevented panic from breaking out in gridlocked crowds.



I think my favorite part of that summer was around late June, when they were getting desperate. To try and help with crowd flow, they decied to reverse the direction and order in which the show was designed to start; from Small World being the first show around 8:45 to Main Street being that first show and going in reverse. Then the stages rolled north to Small World for their second show, then back again to Main Street for the last two shows. Sometime after park closing, the stages were rolled home to the parade warehouse.

The problem is that the rolling stages were battery powered and using 1990's technology, so they had to charge up overnight and all day back in the parade warehouse behind Toontown. So to get them down behind Main Street to start the show, in early evening around 6:00 they'd roll all four massive stages silently down through the middle of the park and park them for preparations behind Main Street. They weren't designed to be seen in the daylight, much less without all the lights on and characters and pixies dancing on them, so you had these giant, hulking, creepy looking haunted forest stages rolling silently down the parade route in broad daylight.



After a few weeks of that, they got the Voice of Disneyland to boom out on repeat as the four stages rolled by... "The large rolling stages you see passing by will be used in tonight's performance of Light Magic! Please check with a Disneyland Cast Member for showtimes and viewing areas! The large rolling stages you see passing by will be used in tonight's performance...."

It was a Chef's Kiss perfection for artistic and operational failure! 😚



I wasn't there to see that, but remember hearing all about it on the Usenet forums. Seeing as how we didn't know what a drone was back then, it was described as just a remote controlled toy helicopter type thing dressed up with a Tinkerbell overlay. Like almost everything attached to Light Magic, it was an artistic and operational failure. :banghead:


My Gawd, they actually DID THAT at Disneyland?…

Holy crap, rolling those things down the street to their ‘new revised starting point’ in the daytime violates the very foundation of what the Park was built on as far as presentation goes.
Like most hard core Park fans, I am well aware of the saga of Light Magic and its interesting history.
But DAY-UM…!
Never knew they actually rolled those suckers out in daylight in such a disgraceful way.

What happened to ‘Show’…??
Last time I checked, it comes before ‘Efficiency’

Paul Pressler really was THE worst thing to ever happen to Disneyland Park.
More convinced of this now then ever before.
What a total fluff up.

-
 

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