I wrote this letter about the EPCOT GotG rumor if you're interested....

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Original Poster
I sent this letter to Joe Rohde (email?), Tom Fitzgerald(email), Bob Chapek(snail mail), and George K (snail mail, I came up with this foursome after talking to various message board bigwigs). Each of them had a unique intro paragraph. For the record, e-mails (2) and phone calls (2) I got Saturday morning have all officially been on the behalf of Bob Chapek. First, here is the letter with the Tom Fitzgerald opening paragraph. I'm not sure if Joe Rohde ever got it. The typical firstname.lastname@disney.com e-mail address bounced. He had a personal website that made it very clear he didn't want Disney e-mails sent to that site. I eventually found an edu address for him. Email response and some interesting points from the phone conversation with the person in "Guest Experience Somehing or the other" to follow. The person I talked to was very good at her job.

Dear Mr. Fitzgerald,


I have been impressed with your long career as a Disney imagineer. One small thing that stands out (and proves that I am a weirdo) is I understand you wrote the script for the Walter Cronkite version of Spaceship Earth, which I dearly loved. I am writing this letter (and sending it to several of your colleagues) as a fan who is concerned about a rumored change to what was once my favorite place to visit. Alas, other changes that have already happened have made that no longer the case. Still, I hope this letter is at least interesting for you to read. No response necessary. I know you are busy.

People have always loved Disney theme parks. People still love Disney theme parks. These two things are true. Yet, like many love affairs, the reasons for the emotional state of being often go unanalyzed. When I’m in a Disney theme park, I have been asked questions by many a survey taker. Yet they never ask me questions that get at the root of my love for Disney theme parks. Part of this is cultural, both at the company and societal level. Theme park analysis has never been considered an intellectual pursuit worthy of a thoughtful person and I have no idea whether or not those in the upper echelons of Disney are even aware these people (myself included) exist. However, certain aspects of Disney theme parks have made for a thoughtful class of highly educated theme park enthusiasts who enjoy the parks as an art form. I am concerned certain moves will make this a thing of the past.

Before I get into the specific reason for this particular missive, I would like to make a second point that I believe is not considered by many involved in long term theme park planning. Each and every Disney theme park is a heavily visited, intellectual property that has certain characteristics. Each and every park has its serious fans and detractors like every other artistic creation in history. An attempt to make an intellectual property appreciated by all will certainly backfire and dilute the original product to a point that it will be un-recognizable. Captain America making a guest appearance in Frozen 2 to draw in little boys may work on opening weekend, but it will certainly be viewed as completely ridiculous for the rest of time.


Now that I have prattled on in text fashion, let me come to my main point. Completely ditching a pavilion about energy and finally making use of a pavilion that was devoted to life and biology before it became a storage closet for the festivals that now seem to define EPCOT, for a super hero showcase is a terrible idea. I am sure that the ride and activities surrounding this idea will have some redeeming qualities, be initially popular, and will be enjoyed by many (probably even me since I like the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise). Nonetheless, it will be disastrous for the long term identity of EPCOT and the continued destruction of this identity will be bad for the long-term health of the park. I think this for several reasons.

Its serious fans will be completely abandoned and I think spending lots of time in a park that is naught but a half-baked version of (insert current branding word(s) here) Studios, Magic Kingdom, or (God Forbid) Islands of Adventure will be a hard long-term sell. What is especially disappointing about the fact this current rumor is being considered is that it doesn’t consider a) the identity of EPCOT as a park (never mind Future World as a distinct area within the park), b) even with the current expansions, the Studios park is still light with regards to attractions and Guardians would be a good fit there with an opportunity to build a “new” ride as opposed to doing an overlay on an already incredibly beloved attraction and c) it causes me to wonder why there is apparently no faith in designing a theme park pavilion(s) that isn’t (aren’t) tied in to an already popular intellectual property. I am also led to wonder why there is no faith in overarching ideas of the past. Energy is one of the most important issues facing mankind and an easy concept to be developed into something awe inspiring. Even the small things of the past are completely abandoned. Has no one ever considered the visual treat that HD projection mapping could create in conjunction with Radok blocks?


I have heard that ideas read on message boards and in letters are off limits to those in power. Also, I am loathe to subject you to my “armchair Imagineering” (Radok block comment aside). I am under no delusions that my ideas are great, but I can come up with several ideas for an energy pavilion that seem A-OK to me. I’m sure the imagineers can as well. I would even argue that coming up with an idea that fits into the existing theme/place making of a particular area is easier than say, coming up with a way to get a team of superheroes that is operating in the present day, to fit into an area where the pavilions are ostensibly dialogue with each other about the optimistic future of mankind. Disney used to be good at theme park design. Good doesn’t do it justice. You were the best. Back in the day, Disney was confident since it was known that any concept developed for a theme park would be popular since it would be done well. It would be a concept we, the public, didn’t even know we wanted. The concept would be appreciated and endure. Perhaps those days will never come back. We have all lost something special if that is the case.


For me, it is personal. I am sure that EPCOT will not as it is currently constituted, fill my children with awe and wonder that leads to a lifetime search for truth in nature as it did in my case. I am already deprived of the best dark ride ever built, Horizons. Long, whimsical conceptual explorations of transportation have been replaced by vehicles than whiz pointlessly in the neon void. Imagination is a rudderless salute to the senses. Mr. Ray misses an opportunity to introduce us to marine life, because we must find something that has been lost and found countless times. Instead of serving as an entry point to World Showcase, Soarin’ soars without an agricultural identity. I would consider a superhero pavilion overlay/addition/replacement of energy to be the final death knell of what was once my most beloved place.


Warm Regards,


Dr. George PoopyPants (full name partly redacted, this wasn't in the letter, you guys are a bunch of weirdos for thinking I put PoopyPants in the letter), Ph.D. (1997, Physical Chemistry, Florida State)
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
Original Poster
Alright, here is the official electronic response..

"Dear Dr. Poopypants,



Thank you for your letter to Bob Chapek regarding the Walt Disney World Resort. Your correspondence was forwarded to me so that I may personally respond to you.



I would like the opportunity to discuss your comments. Unfortunately, I have been unable to reach you by telephone. I am available Monday between 8:00 a.m. and 3:30 p.m., Thursday and Friday between 11:00 a.m. and 6:30 p.m., and Saturday and Sunday between 10:00 a.m. and 5:30 p.m. EST at 407-934-7xxx. You may also provide me with your preferred telephone number and the best time to call as a reply to this message. I am happy to contact you.



Once again, Dr. Poopypants, thank you for your honest and constructive feedback. I look forward to speaking with you at your earliest convenience.



Kindest regards,



Sheri Fillion

Guest Experience Services

Walt Disney World Resort"

So, after I got past my fury at being called a PoopyPants, I gave her a call. She was quite good at her job. Here are some notes -

I did indeed talk to Mr. Chapek's intern/guest relations person today. Some interesting points. 1) She told me that mine wasn't the first letter they had recieved on this topic (GotG taking over UoE). She said that these letters actually do influence their decision making process. 2) I told her who else had copies of the letter. She said that George K reads every piece of mail addressed to him. It might take him a while, but he makes a point of doing it. 3) At one point (we talked for 30-45 minutes) I said, "I get the impression that there is a sub-group of people who would pay any amount of money for any offering just because its at Disney World." She said, "That is undeniably true, but we always reach a point where we have to pay attention to everyone else." I found that admission fascinating. 4) She seemed to agree with the artistic merit of my main point and many of the points in my letter. This also surprised me. My guess is she's supposed to make me feel good. I mean we were even joking about shoehorning GotG into IaSW. 5) Speaking of buttering me up, she laughed at my witticisms which is far and away the best way to get me to like you.

I do think on the whole that she was quite sincere. I also think she is quite good at her job. We got off onto a tangent on Disney dining. I don't want to get into details, but she didn't just "parrot the company line". Also, because I know it will come up, I didn't ask for any free stuff, nor was any free stuff proffered. I'm guessing that due to the philosophical nature of our discussion and my letter, she rightly sensed that offering me a Communicore hat or something would've agitated.
 

DisneyFans4Life

Well-Known Member
Very nice letter. I sent an email to George a few months ago and within a couple days got a call from someone at his office. I don't remember her name, but the conversation went very similiarly to yours; made you feel good, related to you, etc. How much influence our letters actually have is anyone's guess, but it's nice that we actually get calls back.
 

Glasgow

Well-Known Member
Enjoyed your missive, George. Epcot has long been my favorite park and I pine for the days of fully operating attractions and immersive experiences. However, there are two trends that scare me more than anything. One, "Long Term" no longer seems to be part of the existing management vernacular. If you don't make money, now, it seems you are destined for the dust bin. Perhaps this is not true, but sacrificing the original themeing and mission for quick, IP inspired content appears to be, ostensibly, the way of the future. Two, the worst iniquity of all to me is a shuttered attraction - I'm looking at you, WoL. While updating an attraction to a lackluster shell of itself isn't great (cough .. TT2 .. cough), leaving content to rot into obscurity is far worse and really embarrassing.

Perhaps if we could get one original, inspiring and immersive dark ride it would at least test the waters for future development. The problem is that every attempt needs to be a success and that tempers all monetary decisions. Here's hoping ..
 

brandondad14

New Member
Would you accept this as a response.
Thank you for your letter and I really appreciate the feedback so here is what we decided to do. We are going to turn WOL into horizons however, demolish universe of Energy and go ahead with a guardians attraction?
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Would you accept this as a response.
Thank you for your letter and I really appreciate the feedback so here is what we decided to do. We are going to turn WOL into horizons however, demolish universe of Energy and go ahead with a guardians attraction?
Personally no. (can't speak for @George however)

I don't want to bring back old attractions for the most part. I want new attractions. I just want them to match in theme and purpose with what the park was built to do. Bringing back an old attraction is just as lazy and unoriginal as shoehorning in a property that doesn't fit.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
Personally no. (can't speak for @George however)

I don't want to bring back old attractions for the most part. I want new attractions. I just want them to match in theme and purpose with what the park was built to do. Bringing back an old attraction is just as lazy and unoriginal as shoehorning in a property that doesn't fit.
Edit: I'll take Kitchen Kabaret over Soarin' every single day.

Hey, this new search functionality is cool! :D
 

Seabasealpha1

Well-Known Member
Would you accept this as a response.
Thank you for your letter and I really appreciate the feedback so here is what we decided to do. We are going to turn WOL into horizons however, demolish universe of Energy and go ahead with a guardians attraction?

Personally no. (can't speak for @George however)

I don't want to bring back old attractions for the most part. I want new attractions. I just want them to match in theme and purpose with what the park was built to do. Bringing back an old attraction is just as lazy and unoriginal as shoehorning in a property that doesn't fit.
Love the effort you're putting out there...takes some gumption to stick it to these people...and it's appreciated here!

As a side note, I could be tempted... I'd happily take GoTG in place of UoE on just a few conditions...

Not only do I want Horizons back and improved, I better darn well be able to get my "Veggie Veggie Fruit Fruit" on over at the Land...and that Apatosaurus chewing the greens at UoE...I want it installed in my home...I wanna walk in the door each day, climb a ladder, and give it a pat on the head...

Seriously though, thanks very much for your efforts!

(maybe I should have said "a pat on the... saurus..."?)
 

hpyhnt 1000

Well-Known Member
Personally no. (can't speak for @George however)

I don't want to bring back old attractions for the most part. I want new attractions. I just want them to match in theme and purpose with what the park was built to do. Bringing back an old attraction is just as lazy and unoriginal as shoehorning in a property that doesn't fit.

Why is this so hard for the folks at Disney to understand? We're not against changes; we're against stupid changes that spit in the face of a park's theming and dedication statement. GotG doesn't belong in the energy pavilion in Epcot's Future World, just like Expedition Everest doesn't belong in MK's Liberty Square.

Given this thread, I should try my hand at sending a letter. Can't hurt.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Love the effort you're putting out there...takes some gumption to stick it to these people...and it's appreciated here!

As a side note, I could be tempted... I'd happily take GoTG in place of UoE on just a few conditions...

Not only do I want Horizons back and improved, I better darn well be able to get my "Veggie Veggie Fruit Fruit" on over at the Land...and that Apatosaurus chewing the greens at UoE...I want it installed in my home...I wanna walk in the door each day, climb a ladder, and give it a pat on the head...

Seriously though, thanks very much for your efforts!

(maybe I should have said "a pat on the... saurus..."?)
Although @MichWolv knew to prey on my undying love for Bonnie Appetite to quickly find a contradictory statement from me, the proviso I put in was meant mostly for Journey into Imagination.
I'll say that I still would prefer them to add a new attraction to replace the current turdnado, one that matched the original for charm, wonder, and (wait for it) imagination. They have so many creative minds under the Walt Disney Company umbrella that I would prefer that they stick a group of them in a room with enough pizza and weed to come up with something truly new and inspiring.
I do however think that the original attraction was timeless, and with very little update/upkeep, it would still be delighting people. Imageworks and the Magic Eye Theater would need to be more often updated, but the original Dreamfinder/Figment version would be completely acceptable as a replacement for the modern attraction.
 

Seabasealpha1

Well-Known Member
Although @MichWolv knew to prey on my undying love for Bonnie Appetite to quickly find a contradictory statement from me, the proviso I put in was meant mostly for Journey into Imagination.
I'll say that I still would prefer them to add a new attraction to replace the current turdnado, one that matched the original for charm, wonder, and (wait for it) imagination. They have so many creative minds under the Walt Disney Company umbrella that I would prefer that they stick a group of them in a room with enough pizza and weed to come up with something truly new and inspiring.
I do however think that the original attraction was timeless, and with very little update/upkeep, it would still be delighting people. Imageworks and the Magic Eye Theater would need to be more often updated, but the original Dreamfinder/Figment version would be completely acceptable as a replacement for the modern attraction.
Agreed,

I just sometimes sit around and wonder if there's ANY real fans of the parks in management at Disney anymore. Like true fans with some reverence and concern for the legacy...?

Or are they kept out of the upper management purposely...?
 

Seabasealpha1

Well-Known Member
For that matter, let me go a step further...

It is very alarming to me that the folks that run this company claim to be so "in touch" with the history/legacy of the company...but if you really look,they are entirely out of touch. They are frigging clueless.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
I sent this letter to Joe Rohde (email?), Tom Fitzgerald(email), Bob Chapek(snail mail), and George K (snail mail, I came up with this foursome after talking to various message board bigwigs). Each of them had a unique intro paragraph. For the record, e-mails (2) and phone calls (2) I got Saturday morning have all officially been on the behalf of Bob Chapek. First, here is the letter with the Tom Fitzgerald opening paragraph. I'm not sure if Joe Rohde ever got it. The typical firstname.lastname@disney.com e-mail address bounced. He had a personal website that made it very clear he didn't want Disney e-mails sent to that site. I eventually found an edu address for him. Email response and some interesting points from the phone conversation with the person in "Guest Experience Somehing or the other" to follow. The person I talked to was very good at her job.

Dear Mr. Fitzgerald,


I have been impressed with your long career as a Disney imagineer. One small thing that stands out (and proves that I am a weirdo) is I understand you wrote the script for the Walter Cronkite version of Spaceship Earth, which I dearly loved. I am writing this letter (and sending it to several of your colleagues) as a fan who is concerned about a rumored change to what was once my favorite place to visit. Alas, other changes that have already happened have made that no longer the case. Still, I hope this letter is at least interesting for you to read. No response necessary. I know you are busy.

People have always loved Disney theme parks. People still love Disney theme parks. These two things are true. Yet, like many love affairs, the reasons for the emotional state of being often go unanalyzed. When I’m in a Disney theme park, I have been asked questions by many a survey taker. Yet they never ask me questions that get at the root of my love for Disney theme parks. Part of this is cultural, both at the company and societal level. Theme park analysis has never been considered an intellectual pursuit worthy of a thoughtful person and I have no idea whether or not those in the upper echelons of Disney are even aware these people (myself included) exist. However, certain aspects of Disney theme parks have made for a thoughtful class of highly educated theme park enthusiasts who enjoy the parks as an art form. I am concerned certain moves will make this a thing of the past.

Before I get into the specific reason for this particular missive, I would like to make a second point that I believe is not considered by many involved in long term theme park planning. Each and every Disney theme park is a heavily visited, intellectual property that has certain characteristics. Each and every park has its serious fans and detractors like every other artistic creation in history. An attempt to make an intellectual property appreciated by all will certainly backfire and dilute the original product to a point that it will be un-recognizable. Captain America making a guest appearance in Frozen 2 to draw in little boys may work on opening weekend, but it will certainly be viewed as completely ridiculous for the rest of time.


Now that I have prattled on in text fashion, let me come to my main point. Completely ditching a pavilion about energy and finally making use of a pavilion that was devoted to life and biology before it became a storage closet for the festivals that now seem to define EPCOT, for a super hero showcase is a terrible idea. I am sure that the ride and activities surrounding this idea will have some redeeming qualities, be initially popular, and will be enjoyed by many (probably even me since I like the Guardians of the Galaxy franchise). Nonetheless, it will be disastrous for the long term identity of EPCOT and the continued destruction of this identity will be bad for the long-term health of the park. I think this for several reasons.

Its serious fans will be completely abandoned and I think spending lots of time in a park that is naught but a half-baked version of (insert current branding word(s) here) Studios, Magic Kingdom, or (God Forbid) Islands of Adventure will be a hard long-term sell. What is especially disappointing about the fact this current rumor is being considered is that it doesn’t consider a) the identity of EPCOT as a park (never mind Future World as a distinct area within the park), b) even with the current expansions, the Studios park is still light with regards to attractions and Guardians would be a good fit there with an opportunity to build a “new” ride as opposed to doing an overlay on an already incredibly beloved attraction and c) it causes me to wonder why there is apparently no faith in designing a theme park pavilion(s) that isn’t (aren’t) tied in to an already popular intellectual property. I am also led to wonder why there is no faith in overarching ideas of the past. Energy is one of the most important issues facing mankind and an easy concept to be developed into something awe inspiring. Even the small things of the past are completely abandoned. Has no one ever considered the visual treat that HD projection mapping could create in conjunction with Radok blocks?


I have heard that ideas read on message boards and in letters are off limits to those in power. Also, I am loathe to subject you to my “armchair Imagineering” (Radok block comment aside). I am under no delusions that my ideas are great, but I can come up with several ideas for an energy pavilion that seem A-OK to me. I’m sure the imagineers can as well. I would even argue that coming up with an idea that fits into the existing theme/place making of a particular area is easier than say, coming up with a way to get a team of superheroes that is operating in the present day, to fit into an area where the pavilions are ostensibly dialogue with each other about the optimistic future of mankind. Disney used to be good at theme park design. Good doesn’t do it justice. You were the best. Back in the day, Disney was confident since it was known that any concept developed for a theme park would be popular since it would be done well. It would be a concept we, the public, didn’t even know we wanted. The concept would be appreciated and endure. Perhaps those days will never come back. We have all lost something special if that is the case.


For me, it is personal. I am sure that EPCOT will not as it is currently constituted, fill my children with awe and wonder that leads to a lifetime search for truth in nature as it did in my case. I am already deprived of the best dark ride ever built, Horizons. Long, whimsical conceptual explorations of transportation have been replaced by vehicles than whiz pointlessly in the neon void. Imagination is a rudderless salute to the senses. Mr. Ray misses an opportunity to introduce us to marine life, because we must find something that has been lost and found countless times. Instead of serving as an entry point to World Showcase, Soarin’ soars without an agricultural identity. I would consider a superhero pavilion overlay/addition/replacement of energy to be the final death knell of what was once my most beloved place.


Warm Regards,


Dr. George PoopyPants (full name partly redacted, this wasn't in the letter, you guys are a bunch of weirdos for thinking I put PoopyPants in the letter), Ph.D. (1997, Physical Chemistry, Florida State)

Great, thoughtful letter. What I would expect from a fellow Nole. ;)

Make sure to update us with responses from those you contacted. I would hope they all will... we were taught in B School that customers who took the time to (constructively) express their thoughts, concerns, comments on your product or service, deserved a response. And something more than the "thank you for contacting us...." some companies use.

Go Noles!

8a8ef54ae76c71c2512de652e5a1c338.jpg
 

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