horizon building

[jmvd20]

Any attraction will see the guest count dwindle when normal maintenance and upgrades are not performed. Of course guest counts went down on Horizons, it was seasonal and then open sometimes yet other times closed. Lights didn't work, nothing was updated etc... To me, they wanted it gone and after it sat in poor condition for a while they were able to use low guest count numbers as a justification for a decision that was already made.

 

[klineski96]

I've recently wondered why "they" didn't replace Wonders of Life instead of Horizons to make room for Mission: Space.

Wonders of Life has Body Wars and Cranium Command, both of which are/were pretty lame in my opinion. Plus, it's never/rarely open!

Horizons was a great ride and surely "they" knew it had a strong and loyal following, despite not having consistent huge numbers.

This has probably already been discussed at great lengths on these boards, just wanted to add my $.02

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

Any attraction will see the guest count dwindle when normal maintenance and upgrades are not performed. Of course guest counts went down on Horizons, it was seasonal and then open sometimes yet other times closed. Lights didn't work, nothing was updated etc... To me, they wanted it gone and after it sat in poor condition for a while they were able to use low guest count numbers as a justification for a decision that was already made.

Precisely.

 

[joel_maxwell]

There is no question that Horizon's was a unique building but to the casual Disney guest it was just another building. I think that the only buildings truly safe from the wrecking ball at WDW in the minds of TDO are the ToL, the Castle and SSE. Every other building is fare game if a sponsor shows up with an open check book like they did with M:S.

I agree. SSE is the sacred cow of Epcot.

By the same rationale, The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean should have been closed years ago and replaced with thrill rides. Horizons just needed to be updated and marketed, as those two classics at The Magic Kingdom were. If people were truly "screaming" for more thrill rides (which beyond just being used to sound more dramatic, I suspect screaming is a bit of an exaggeration), there's plenty of room around Future World that they could have added Mission: SPACE.

The problem is, those attractions you listed are sacred cows.

but when management, or should i say Eisner, didnt want to pump the money into the extensive revamp of Horizons, cheaper to bulldoze.

Im not arguing, im just stating what has been brought o my attention in the past. M:S would have been great as add on to Horizons 2.0

 

[Master Yoda]

By the same rationale, The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the Caribbean should have been closed years ago and replaced with thrill rides. Horizons just needed to be updated and marketed, as those two classics at The Magic Kingdom were. If people were truly "screaming" for more thrill rides (which beyond just being used to sound more dramatic, I suspect screaming is a bit of an exaggeration), there's plenty of room around Future World that they could have added Mission: SPACE.

I agree. I hate to see a perfectly good attraction shuttered then demolished especially when there was room to build the replacement elsewhere. While guests screaming is a bit of an exaggerating it is no exaggeration that the general public thinks that Epcot is as boring as watching paint dry. If the mention on the Simpson's is not proof enough of this then the number of casual guests that I talk to as a KK rep that think the same thing or something similar should be. Just last week I had a good 1/2 hour conversation with a client about what there was to do with her family in Epcot. Her impression of it was that it was kind of like a science museum, and this woman was a Florida resident that had been going to WDW every few years since the 70's. You can only imagine what someone that has never been to WDW thinks.

We all know the formula for the quickest way to liven up a boring park...add a big time thrill ride and that is what Epcot has done....three times.

HM and PotC along with other such attractions like IASW have that unfair advantage of nostalgia in the minds of even the most casual Disney fan and more importantly management. You pretty much can not have a Disney park without those attraction and they will always be there regardless of their attendance. The only Disney park that is lacking all three of those Disney Staples is Hong Kong and you see how well they are doing.

 

[joel_maxwell]

MR. Epcot, i think i misread you rationale and point. Sorry. That is what i get for trying to work and chat at the same time. :lol:

I see you point

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I agree. I hate to see a perfectly good attraction shuttered then demolished especially when there was room to build the replacement elsewhere. While guests screaming is a bit of an exaggerating it is no exaggeration that the general public thinks that Epcot is as boring as watching paint dry. If the mention on the Simpson's is not proof enough of this then the number of casual guests that I talk to as a KK rep that think the same thing or something similar should be. Just last week I had a good 1/2 hour conversation with a client about what there was to do with her family in Epcot. Her impression of it was that it was kind of like a science museum, and this woman was a Florida resident that had been going to WDW every few years since the 70's. You can only imagine what someone that has never been to WDW thinks.

We all know the formula for the quickest way to liven up a boring park...add a big time thrill ride and that is what Epcot has done....three times.

HM and PotC along with other such attractions like IASW have that unfair advantage of nostalgia in the minds of even the most casual Disney fan and more importantly management. You pretty much can not have a Disney park without those attraction and they will always be there regardless of their attendance. The only Disney park that is lacking all three of those Disney Staples is Hong Kong and you see how well they are doing.

I have absolutely no problem with thrill rides at EPCOT. And I also understand the need to fight the "boring" perception that the park is stigma-ed with. The trick, and I believe Walt had said something along these lines, is to entertain them and slip in the education without them realizing it. Thrill rides can certainly do the trick, but what's there now has no substance. Out of the three, I would say Mission: SPACE comes closest. The problem with it is that it doesn't offer a variety of experiences that everyone can enjoy, and it doesn't cover the true scope of the topic. Test Track has a fun fast part, and is otherwise just a giant GM commercial, when it could absolutely WOW Guests with the truly exciting concepts for transportation that could be coming in the future. Soarin' is breathtaking, but leaves you with zilch after you've done it. It would work better attached to one of countries, with a longer film and perhaps some narration. Yeah, sure, you could have it Soarin' over the natural wonders of the world or something, but that's still veering off somewhat from The Land's theme of agriculture and nutrition. If you want a thrill ride that would truly adhere to what EPCOT is supposed to be about, do something like a submarine simulator ride at The Living Seas, where you get in a sub of the future on a trip down to SeaBase Alpha, and of course have something go terribly wrong along the way.

As far as Horizons goes, I think management failed to realize that they need to support and culitvate those EPCOT attractions that could become the parks classics, that everyone associates with the park and rides with their whole family every trip. Spaceship Earth and Living With the Land almost kind of have that status, but, I've said it before, I'll say it again, with the proper care and attention, Horizons and World of Motion could have been to EPCOT Center what Pirates of the Caribbean and The Haunted Mansion are to Magic Kingdom. Also Universe of Energy and Journey Into Imagination to a little bit of a lesser extent.

MR. Epcot, i think i misread you rationale and point. Sorry. That is what i get for trying to work and chat at the same time. :lol:

I see you point

No worries!

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

, I'll say it again, with the proper care and attention, Horizons and World of Motion could have been to EPCOT Center what Pirates of the Caribbean and The Haunted Mansion are to Magic Kingdom. Also Universe of Energy and Journey Into Imagination to a little bit of a lesser extent.

Exactly the point I made in the EPCOT thread a few weeks back. EPCOT has not a classic ride left to it. I suppose you can attribute that to the fact that the future "finally caught up", but rides like Horizons and WoM and TLS could have EASILY been upgraded and plussed and liiightly change. Not entirly kill them off becuase they were no longer relevant, but mold them to a new future every few years or so.

 

[Master Yoda]

As far as Horizons goes, I think management failed to realize that they need to support and culitvate those EPCOT attractions that could become the parks classics, that everyone associates with the park and rides with their whole family every trip. Spaceship Earth and Living With the Land almost kind of have that status, but, I've said it before, I'll say it again, with the proper care and attention, Horizons and World of Motion could have been to EPCOT Center what Pirates of the Caribbean and The Haunted Mansion are to Magic Kingdom. Also Universe of Energy and Journey Into Imagination to a little bit of a lesser extent.

Exactly the point I made in the EPCOT thread a few weeks back. EPCOT has not a classic ride left to it. I suppose you can attribute that to the fact that the future "finally caught up", but rides like Horizons and WoM and TLS could have EASILY been upgraded and plussed and liiightly change. Not entirly kill them off becuase they were no longer relevant, but mold them to a new future every few years or so.

I would have loved to see this to but again we are forced to look at the reality of WDW. Management wants to do refurbs that are maintenance only. They do not want to pay for updates, for the most part they do not even want to pay for the maintenance. Look how long it took to update SEE, HM and PotC and all but one of those was half job. Imagineering had lofty plans but park management did not want the rides down for the amount of time it would take to do the job right. We are seeing the same thing now with Space Mountain. The budget was there to basically gut the place and do it right but management freaked out over the time table so we are getting yet another half update.

Management wants eternal attractions. Just look at what has been done to Epcot so far. SSE would need at most a software update to revamp the decent, M:S would need to shoot a new video, Soarin, The Seas and imagination could operate as is from now until eternity. The only attractions that really need an update are TT and UoE (UoE having the much greater need of the two)

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

I would have loved to see this to but again we are forced to look at the reality of WDW. Management wants to do refurbs that are maintenance only. They do not want to pay for updates, for the most part they do not even want to pay for the maintenance. Look how long it took to update SEE, HM and PotC and all but one of those was half job. Imagineering had lofty plans but park management did not want the rides down for the amount of time it would take to do the job right. We are seeing the same thing now with Space Mountain. The budget was there to basically gut the place and do it right but management freaked out over the time table so we are getting yet another half update.

Management wants eternal attractions. Just look at what has been done to Epcot so far. SSE would need at most a software update to revamp the decent, M:S would need to shoot a new video, Soarin, The Seas and imagination could operate as is from now until eternity. The only attractions that really need an update are TT and UoE (UoE having the much greater need of the two)

Well, I would consider that a failing of management, rather than the design of the parks. It's more management that needs to be fixed than anything.

 

[Master Yoda]

Well, I would consider that a failing of management, rather than the design of the parks. It's more management that needs to be fixed than anything.

Again I would agree but I do see a logic in their actions. It is more profitable to create an attraction that only needs maintenance vs one that needs show scenes periodically updated. It would be a breath of fresh air if we had a team that would think more about show than profit but I do not see that happening anytime soon.

 

[raven]

As said before, don't hate M:S, hate the decision to tear down Horizons instead of having both great attractions.

Miss the Eisner hate threads, huh? :lol:

Kinda funny but yes, he was the one who ultimately gave the green light to tear down the building and put up a new pavilion.

After the WOM/Test Track fiasco with tying to fit an entire new attraction into an existing building gave way to major headaches and engineering nightmares, they decided it would be easier to start from scratch with M:S. Now why did they decide Horizons should go instead of WOL or Energy is beyond me. :shrug:

 

[Master Yoda]

Kinda funny but yes, he was the one who ultimately gave the green light to tear down the building and put up a new pavilion.

After the WOM/Test Track fiasco with tying to fit an entire new attraction into an existing building gave way to major headaches and engineering nightmares, they decided it would be easier to start from scratch with M:S. Now why did they decide Horizons should go instead of WOL or Energy is beyond me. :shrug:

I am going way back into my memory banks but from what I remember WoL was pretty popular due to Body Wars back when Horizons was boarded up in 1994. No clue why UoE was not bulldozed.

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

Again I would agree but I do see a logic in their actions. It is more profitable to create an attraction that only needs maintenance vs one that needs show scenes periodically updated. It would be a breath of fresh air if we had a team that would think more about show than profit but I do not see that happening anytime soon.

I believe that updates and profit could go hand-in-hand. If you create something that is truly interesting that people will be motivated to return more often to see again and again. Getting in on your birthday free and maybe getting to stay in the castle and things like that don't provide as much of a reason to come back as would having new stuff and freshened up stuff. Having consistently new and stimulating experiences is much more motivating than whatever marketing is going on, especially now that they're having some kind of "celebration" going constantly now, diluting the specialness of those occasional times when there is an anniversary or something that is actually worth celebrating.

 

[marni1971]

Now why did they decide Horizons should go instead of WOL or Energy is beyond me. :shrug:

I dare say because the other two were still sponsored, but Horizons was becomming an embarassment.

How things change.

 

[Jasonflz]

Not at all! It is a truly great attraction that offers a unique experience that you can only experience at EPCOT. It is bad that Horizons was torn down to make way for it, b/c they both could've existed. However, Disney wasn't willing to write the check to save Horizons, instead they decided to tear it down. In it's place, a great attraction opened. Get mad at Disney, not M:S. :animwink:

Actually I completely agree with you. M:S get way too much flack from people because they look at the attraction that was there before, not the attraction that is there now. M:S is a really unique attraction and it meets my expectations every time I ride. Horizons was a classic but it honestly overshadowed the whole park in it's multi-resources themes. SS should be the park's symbol, not Horizons.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I would have loved to see this to but again we are forced to look at the reality of WDW. Management wants to do refurbs that are maintenance only. They do not want to pay for updates, for the most part they do not even want to pay for the maintenance. Look how long it took to update SEE, HM and PotC and all but one of those was half job. Imagineering had lofty plans but park management did not want the rides down for the amount of time it would take to do the job right. We are seeing the same thing now with Space Mountain. The budget was there to basically gut the place and do it right but management freaked out over the time table so we are getting yet another half update.

Management wants eternal attractions. Just look at what has been done to Epcot so far. SSE would need at most a software update to revamp the decent, M:S would need to shoot a new video, Soarin, The Seas and imagination could operate as is from now until eternity. The only attractions that really need an update are TT and UoE (UoE having the much greater need of the two)

I know that WDW is a business, and all but that's REALLY taking the easy way out. Slap a new vid in a attraction and call it a refurb? Eh.:shrug::lol:

 

[Enchantâmes]

I remember that! It was a sign of good things to come though! :lookaroun

:brick::brick::brick: