News Holiday crowds at Walt Disney World theme parks 2022

[networkpro]

Or just the business cycle doing it’s thing, we were due for one when Covid hit, we delayed it with the stimulus given to survive 2020. Now that the fed has turned hawkish and is removing that cash with QT it’s now happening. I don’t look at this as Fed caused, just delayed by them, and I think for a good reason. This downturn is the price we pay to have prevented the collapse of the world order in 2020.

Recalibration of the value of a dollar with the increase in the interest rates is one thing, resetting the expectations of the average person as to what their labor is worth is another. Reconciliation will be painful.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well if this were Disney China they could be under their system. Directly reach out and prohibit people from going, take their money so they couldn't go, or even just make them disappear.

If the economy in the US does a repeat of 2008, there wont be sufficient discretionary spending dollars for crowding nor will there be a lot of open job positions.

Oh…travel goes first in a recession. That’s a fact. All indicators are 2023 will be just that.

All those cranes in Orlando? Sprawl housing?

Stupid…and about to be useless.

But what I was saying is that wdw doesn’t have much to “cut”

Staffing is still pathetic…Nothing under construction….food rather stripped down

Nowhere “down” to go

 

[Touchdown]

Recalibration of the value of a dollar with the increase in the interest rates is one thing, resetting the expectations of the average person as to what their labor is worth is another. Reconciliation will be painful.

That would be deflation, which is not the fed’s goal. That’s something most get wrong, we are never going back to 2019 prices, the goal is to get to 2% inflation, not reverse and cause deflation. Thankfully, the 2010s had next to no inflation so this spike, provided it stops soon, simply moved us back to the long term goal, ie reversion to the mean.

 

[wutisgood]

I would argue fastpass+ today would make things seem less crowded. It spreads out crowds more naturally ahead of the park opening a certain day and gives people a baseline for how much they can do. This current system was designed to get peoples' money before they realize that they aren't getting do do certain things.

Recently I was told by my employer that a 4 percent raise and bonus is more than most companies do. Like inflation since my last raise was over 10%. the market will figure that out for you if you cant figure it out. Disney trying to wait out the market like wages will come down instead of just paying people is really next level stupidity.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would argue fastpass+ today would make things seem less crowded. It spreads out crowds more naturally ahead of the park opening a certain day and gives people a baseline for how much they can do. This current system was designed to get peoples' money before they realize that they aren't getting do do certain things.

Recently I was told by my employer that a 4 percent raise and bonus is more than most companies do. Like inflation since my last raise was over 10%. the market will figure that out for you if you cant figure it out. Disney trying to wait out the market like wages will come down instead of just paying people is really next level stupidity.

Fastpass+ was a failure…

But we can keep talking about it like it was the golden Sasquatch

 

[culturenthrills]

We have gone to Epcot for NYE for 5 of the last 6 years and this one was the most meh I’ve experienced. Used to be all the dance parties were unique. This year they were all pretty much the same music. No bands at all when in the past there has been one or two dance parties with band/DJs combo. And it just isn’t the same with no regular show before the NYE fireworks. At least the CMs where still amazing having a blast dancing to the music and the parkwide loop was halfway decent especially compared to MK’s which was god awful and way to short when we were there on Dec 30.

 

[Jambo Dad]

Thought I would weigh in tonight. I was actually a fan of FastPass+. Granted we always stayed at Disney resorts, but we would have our three confirmed reservations each day that we could build around. Usually we would look to do two of them with windows an hour apart in the morning and then a third in the early afternoon after a lunch break. We would fit in stand by around that, but having the base meant we were relatively ok with whatever else we did while touring. If you throw in a fourth ride at park open even better. The rides were tiered then, so you might have to pick one from the best group and then pick from slightly lesser rides for your other 2, but that was the one downside. I assumed when they started talking about monetizing it they would just charge for FP+. Not sure why they think they this is better.

Now what I don’t know is what was the experience for folks at non Disney resorts or local day guests - perhaps they experienced something similar to the current problem. I agree that more capacity and a hard capacity max are also needed as overall attendance keeps rising. We also need key leaders that understand and love the park experiences and have a plan to move forward positively. Eisner takes heat for his negative aspects, but he committed to two more Fl parks, as well as international expansion. Imagine Disney without those parks now. I am not saying a fifth gate is the only solution, but I do think it has the potential to spark creativity and innovation, and some excitement.

 

[NickMaio]

G

Fastpass+ was a failure…

But we can keep talking about it like it was the golden Sasquatch

Getting to pick my fast passes 30-60 days before our trip really sucked.
Not to mention picking the actual time of each of the 3 fast passes.
Oh don't get me started on actually getting 8-10 fast passes a day because we knew how to really use the system.

Ya, I'm glad it's gone too.

 

[scottieRoss]

How about this and compare 1/1/2020 (Prepandemic) with yesterday 1/1/2023
Thrill-data has the actual wait times to compare
1/1/2020 39 minute average standby wait time
1/1/2023 32 minute average standby wait time
So the lines were shorter this year than the last year pre-pandemic.
Kinda defeats everyone looking back to fastpass and crowds with rose colored glasses. This year is better!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

G

Getting to pick my fast passes 30-60 days before our trip really sucked.
Not to mention picking the actual time of each of the 3 fast passes.
Oh don't get me started on actually getting 8-10 fast passes a day because we knew how to really use the system.

Ya, I'm glad it's gone too.

Watch the video up thread…it was a failure

Which is why it’s gone

 

[HauntedPirate]

We were stopped at the junction for RnRC in September (before Ian). I personally counted 28 LL people let into the RnRC pre-show holding area before we were allowed through. Not that waits were very long - LL people were walking almost directly into the building rather frequently while we waited in standby - so make of that what you will.

Wow, an overall 7 whole minutes of less waiting for one day! There it is, hard data that LL/Genie- is a verified winner! Next you’ll tell us that Chapek was a genius who expanded park capacity like no one else because a ride opened while he was CEO.

 

[Touchdown]

The most maddening LL: Standby ratio I’ve ever experienced is at Jungle Cruise. I watched over a dozen boats leave with one standby party every other boat and the rest LL. Didn’t matter what size the party was it was 1 standby and all LL one boat, next boat all LL. We had a string of party of twos, so ratio was 2:62, 1:30. 6%.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Is it festivus again?

 

[wutisgood]

Fastpass+ was a failure…

But we can keep talking about it like it was the golden Sasquatch

Every system is a failure without capacity expansion. Fast pass plus was more of a success because it enables guests to pre plan so they could chose to not go and not get screwed on busy day. It was not perfect but at least it rewarded the loyal fans who could plan. Keep on licking that boot for bob chapek.

 

[Jrb1979]

Is it festivus again?

Yes it is. Guests will continue to air their grievances til more capacity is added or a system that actually works is implemented.

My issue with Genie+, FP+ and the special clientele that visits is other when adding capacity what can be done? Guests don't want to wait in long lines and all want access to be able to have short waits. The problem is there isn't enough capacity for it to work that way, everyone knows that. You can't limit it cause Grandma, Grandpa and parents with littles won't accept it and will stop going.

 

[Jrb1979]

Every system is a failure without capacity expansion. Fast pass plus was more of a success because it enables guests to pre plan so they could chose to not go and not get screwed on busy day. It was not perfect but at least it rewarded the loyal fans who could plan. Keep on licking that boot for bob chapek.

It's a failure cause even if they add 10 attractions to each park tomorrow you would still have the same issue. FP, FP+ Genie+ or whatever the next system they come up with will not work when you give it to everyone.

Remember if everyone has FP nobody has FP.

 

[monothingie]

Watch the video up thread…it was a failure

Which is why it’s gone

Much like the current system, its main failure was the lack of overall total park wise ride capacity to sustain it.

But with guests evidently paying for failure in “record” numbers, is it really a failure for TWDC?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Much like the current system, its main failure was the lack of overall total park wise ride capacity to sustain it.

But with guests evidently paying for failure in “record” numbers, is it really a failure for TWDC?

Mmmmm hmmmmm…

Can’t fit 1,000 square pegs into 100 round holes…
…no matter what you charge them and try to dress it up

The reality is Bob Iger was a horrible domestic park manager. He did things for show, not for operational need.
And yet…so…many…loved…it

And failure for Iger? Well it wasn’t…but then he came back into a recession with his house of cards streaming scheme starting to shake…
…so stay tuned on that front. We’ll see if Moody’s likes the 4/$99 Florida flex ticket showing up again

 

[eliza61nyc]

Is it festivus again?

Sorry for the O/T question. I thought you two weren't going to Disney any more?
Honest question, for some reason I thought you and @HauntedPirate said no más

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's an average of about 10,000 more people per park per day. Now of course it isn't going to be evenly distributed. But I don't know if any level of expansion is going to handle that. Unless they build multiple e tickets across all 4 parks simultaneously to spread it out. But theoretically that would lead to an even bigger increase in attendance. Now I want them to expand and build more, but they really need to cap attendance.

They’re up probably net 20-25% in attendance over the last 20 years - just the reality in the rise of travel…
…but might be up 5%?…10%? In capacity in that time.

Just numbers.

They also went to this “headliner only” model that amplified the shortcomings of the numbers…when demand was pumped up and it provided no distribution relief.

And you build high income timeshare blocks to replace the high cost rooms that you could no longer sell (hidden facts…but still facts) and you ensure there are no lulls where you can diffuse some of the demand over the 12 month calendar.

So then you buy “after hours” from Bob chapek…which was a standard crowd level in the historic sense

…and beg for more of it.