Help me understand DVC vs Marriot

[Dyefrog]

Hope this doesn't derail into tribal warfare but trying to get a handle on due diligence before I try again to purchase a DVC contract.
Quick background, last spring, had a contract accepted and pass ROFR only to hit a wall when the owners failed to mention to the broker that they had a IRS tax lien. That put them in default due to timing to release the lien so I backed out. It had points that were approaching the expiration to roll and I had planned a trip that would have been iffy availability waiting another month. Broker was good about it, no complaints and they let me know as soon as they knew. Would use them and title company again. No hard feelings.
I'm not hardcore Disney but I have family members that are and I have two young grandchildren that I can't wait to share their Disney memories. But, being recently retired, my plans are to travel and not just to Orlando. Not a beach person, neither is my partner but we are quite active and enjoy exploring wherever we end up. Not sure how long it would take for the DVC resorts to get old but certainly longer than the same Villa in Costa Rica.
Did Hawaii about 10 years ago and absolutely loved it but the 11 hour plane ride makes it an anomaly. I don't mind the pre-planning that timeshares and DVC require within reason but need some flexibility. Not a fixed week or even time of year.

I've noticed a number of members both here and on TUG that own both DVC and some other conventional timeshares or Vacation Clubs and they find value in both. I haven't sat through a timeshare hard sell in 15 years but I have a knee jerk reaction to conventional ones based on a number of things.

• Relentless sales tactics at every opportunity requiring bribes to just survive one
• Painful and sometimes difficult if not impossible exit strategy
• Lifetime contract
• Depreciation

Above are some of the issues that I see as cons compared to DVC unless I'm misunderstanding how they work now. For comparison, I've contacted Disney Direct over the phone recently and in the early/mid 90's had a brief rundown with a sales consultant at a DVC kiosk. Not sure it was called that then but certainly no badgering or pulling in the big guns trying to convince me I would be a fool to not buy. On the other hand, I've seen numerous videos from couples that endured 4 hours of a 90 minute presentation that was mostly hard selling tactics. If it's such a no-brainer, is that really necessary? There also seems to be a lot of finger pointing at each of these subsequent "obligatory" 90 minute presentations as they try to get existing owners to upgrade or move their contract because the last guy didn't know what he's doing. It just comes off shady. I know there are some timeshare pros that have never had to sit through the presentations and willingly purchase extensions or add-ons just like DVC so it may just be that the people that are most vocally complaining about the fraud and deception are just doing it wrong.

Apparently there are companies just as shady that will help a timeshare owner get rid of their obligation at the cost of thousands of dollars. Is it really that difficult to just sell your timeshare when you've decided you want out? This is even after the contract has been paid in full so it's just trying to avoid future MF's.

I've also read that if you can unload a timeshare, it's for free or next to nothing. It has no residual value after 10-20 years? Whereas, based on my rudimentary number crunching using past performance (not indicative of future yada, yada, yada) metrics, on average, DVC contracts bought resale can be worth 6.3% more/year. As an example, a CCV 200 point contract for $160pp today could be worth $52k in 10 years. The net gains of ~$20k would negate the MF's even accounting for 4% inflation ($7.60 amortized over 10 years =$16,800). So even if the cost of the DVC contract only matched inflation, you could almost argue the vacations were free (discounting the time value of the initial purchase).

Historical price per point - DVCinfo

History of DVC direct sales price: the prices DVC has charged over the years. Listed are the base prices - exclusive of any incentives being offered

dvcinfo.com

This isn't about number of resorts or quality or flexibility, that's it's own topic. I'm mostly baffled by the seemingly disparate operational differences and how they affect the owners.

• Is it purely just that the Disney ecosystem doesn't need those gimmicks?
• Is there an alternate Vacation Club that mimics how DVC works and holds their value? E.g., do they have a similar ROFR that ensures the values stay up?
• If I can transfer points into the II network and still access the same resorts as the traditional timeshare resorts, what would be the reasoning to buy into them?
• What do they do better than DVC or vice-versa?

Convince me that Marriot or Wyndham after 10 years is the better choice.
TIA

 

[correcaminos]

But, being recently retired, my plans are to travel and not just to Orlando. Not a beach person, neither is my partner but we are quite active and enjoy exploring wherever we end up. Not sure how long it would take for the DVC resorts to get old but certainly longer than the same Villa in Costa Rica

I'm going to say this. DVC likely isn't for you. I also think that maybe a timeshare isn't for you as a whole either.

You can trade DVC into II but that is a poor use of points IMO. If you want Disney and vast majority of time only Disney and yearly or bi-yearly even then DVC is worth it. If it isn't, then I would move on. IMO your ability to back out was a blessing in disguise.

 

[Phonedave]

As @helenabear said, a time share in general may not be for you - all timeshares lock you in to some extent. It sounds like you do not want to be locked into a time, place, or schedule.

Having said that. Here are the major differences between DVC and others

DVC expires. Depending on where you buy, your contract ends on a certain date. Other timeshares run forever (just about). This is both good and bad. Your contract end, but you are also not stuck with a contract for life (and sometimes your kids life)

DVC keeps the resale value of it's contracts up via its Right of First Refusal. Having the ability to ROFR allows DVC to set the free market price. It does so to keep the value it it's timeshares and make direct sales more palatable.

DVC also has a greater interest in getting people into it's properties than other timeshares. When you stay at a DVC property (for the most part) you are spending a great portion of your money on Disney activities. Restaurants, shopping, parks, etc. Other time shares do not get as much of a share of your vacation dollars when you use them. Therefore DVC has an incentive to make you want to stay at a DVC property. So if you are DVC owner who is no longer satisfied with your contract and you are not staying at DVC units, DVC has an incentive to get your contract into the hands of somebody who will. A normal timeshare really does not care - as long as you pay your maintenance fees they are happy.

DVC is expensive, and is best used for DVC properties. If that is not your cup of tea, and you still think you may want a timeshare, then perhaps look elsewhere.

 

[Dyefrog]

As @helenabear said, a time share in general may not be for you - all timeshares lock you in to some extent. It sounds like you do not want to be locked into a time, place, or schedule.

Having said that. Here are the major differences between DVC and others

DVC expires. Depending on where you buy, your contract ends on a certain date. Other timeshares run forever (just about). This is both good and bad. Your contract end, but you are also not stuck with a contract for life (and sometimes your kids life)

DVC keeps the resale value of it's contracts up via its Right of First Refusal. Having the ability to ROFR allows DVC to set the free market price. It does so to keep the value it it's timeshares and make direct sales more palatable.

DVC also has a greater interest in getting people into it's properties than other timeshares. When you stay at a DVC property (for the most part) you are spending a great portion of your money on Disney activities. Restaurants, shopping, parks, etc. Other time shares do not get as much of a share of your vacation dollars when you use them. Therefore DVC has an incentive to make you want to stay at a DVC property. So if you are DVC owner who is no longer satisfied with your contract and you are not staying at DVC units, DVC has an incentive to get your contract into the hands of somebody who will. A normal timeshare really does not care - as long as you pay your maintenance fees they are happy.

DVC is expensive, and is best used for DVC properties. If that is not your cup of tea, and you still think you may want a timeshare, then perhaps look elsewhere.

Thanks for the feedback. I may not have been as clear as I should have about how it would be used. It's not so much about me, as it is my immediate family. I enjoy Disney and I can certainly appreciate the "magic" but I don't have Mickey wallpaper. I will personally plan on visiting Disney at a minimum of 1 week every 2 years and look forward to it but could see that increase depending on how smitten the rest of the family is. I also see me visiting Orlando and Florida in general outside the Disney bubble just as much. That's why I'm researching non-Disney timeshares.

One of my daughters was a Disney intern about 5 years ago and we stayed on site at a moderate resort to visit for 3 days. My first time on site and I was convinced to always stay on site if I plan on staying within the Disney bubble. She is a Disney fanatic as is her mom and will probably use it more than I and she will be on the deed. There's also the ex and with 2 new grandchildren, they too will be every other year along with DIL's mom. So getting my monies worth won't be the problem. Addonitis will be.
As for locked into time, place, or schedule, I was referring to a traditional timeshare where you own week 27 at Casa del Sunburn, not DVC. I see DVC as quite flexible with diligent planning. I know you can trade out conventional timeshares just like Disney but my understanding is there's a cost and more limitations compared to DVC. I'm certain once you get with the program it's second nature.
I absolutely agree that DVC should be used for DVC and Disney attractions. If I'm planning a trip to Orlando to do Seaworld and Universal, I'm renting Marriot points.

Concerning ROFR, I thought as you do but it's my understanding that the market dictates the value of the points, i.e. rack rates are a better indicator of the free market value of the Deluxe Resorts. The ROFR buybacks are a reaction to that market. If due to some black swan event, rack rates plummet, so too would the DVC point values. But as we've seen the past two years, Disney room prices have been fairly stable and I don't believe they are artificially inflated by Disney beyond demand or supply would outstrip demand and it doesn't. Even with travel advisories.

So I wasn't trying to get confirmation that I'm a good fit but I appreciate the feedback, really I do. I was trying to better understand the differences between tradition timeshares vs DVC. If I had to guess, it's most likely I will probably have both at some point as I'm planning to vacation 8-12 weeks/year but not always the same place the entire time.

 

[Phonedave]

Thanks for the feedback. I may not have been as clear as I should have about how it would be used. It's not so much about me, as it is my immediate family. I enjoy Disney and I can certainly appreciate the "magic" but I don't have Mickey wallpaper. I will personally plan on visiting Disney at a minimum of 1 week every 2 years and look forward to it but could see that increase depending on how smitten the rest of the family is. I also see me visiting Orlando and Florida in general outside the Disney bubble just as much. That's why I'm researching non-Disney timeshares.

One of my daughters was a Disney intern about 5 years ago and we stayed on site at a moderate resort to visit for 3 days. My first time on site and I was convinced to always stay on site if I plan on staying within the Disney bubble. She is a Disney fanatic as is her mom and will probably use it more than I and she will be on the deed. There's also the ex and with 2 new grandchildren, they too will be every other year along with DIL's mom. So getting my monies worth won't be the problem. Addonitis will be.
As for locked into time, place, or schedule, I was referring to a traditional timeshare where you own week 27 at Casa del Sunburn, not DVC. I see DVC as quite flexible with diligent planning. I know you can trade out conventional timeshares just like Disney but my understanding is there's a cost and more limitations compared to DVC. I'm certain once you get with the program it's second nature.
I absolutely agree that DVC should be used for DVC and Disney attractions. If I'm planning a trip to Orlando to do Seaworld and Universal, I'm renting Marriot points.

Concerning ROFR, I thought as you do but it's my understanding that the market dictates the value of the points, i.e. rack rates are a better indicator of the free market value of the Deluxe Resorts. The ROFR buybacks are a reaction to that market. If due to some black swan event, rack rates plummet, so too would the DVC point values. But as we've seen the past two years, Disney room prices have been fairly stable and I don't believe they are artificially inflated by Disney beyond demand or supply would outstrip demand and it doesn't. Even with travel advisories.

So I wasn't trying to get confirmation that I'm a good fit but I appreciate the feedback, really I do. I was trying to better understand the differences between tradition timeshares vs DVC. If I had to guess, it's most likely I will probably have both at some point as I'm planning to vacation 8-12 weeks/year but not always the same place the entire time.

You can get "flexible" traditional timeshares. You can still get the "you have week 27" type timeshare, but many of them are now more flexible. Maybe not as flexible as DVC with points. You may be locked into going Saturday to Saturday, and may not be able to switch from a 1BR to a 2BR, but there are lots of timeshares where you can move weeks around.

 

[littlestar]

If you buy some DVC points you are going to receive a free Interval International Gold account (Interval International is DVC’s trading partner as of January 1, 2022). This relationship will give you access to Interval International’s cash Getaways without having to trade your DVC points. I thought Disney would block the Orlando getaway inventory from DVC members, but they didn’t. Most of the cash Getaways inventory will be in overbuilt areas like Orlando, Branson, Williamsburg, and probably not school vacation weeks. Marriott Vacation Club resorts in Orlando are beautiful and available on Getaways for usually around $500 a week for 1 and 2 bedrooms in shoulder seasons.

We have owned DVC since 2002, but don’t own as much DVC anymore because we have settled on what we need and where we want to go. We used to own a resale Marriott 2 bedroom lockoff week (not points) but sold it because we found out we liked Wyndham’s system better because they had the locations we wanted - Destin, Florida; Gatlinburg, TN; Waikiki, Hawaii; Myrtle Beach, SC; Wyndham Bonnet Creek near Disney. You can buy Wyndham points resale really cheap but pay attention to home resort because that makes a difference on maintenance fees.

I would read the Timeshare Users Group boards, tugbbs, and study their Wyndham, Marriott, etc. boards. They cover every name brand timeshare in detail. Good luck.

 

[Dyefrog]

If you buy some DVC points you are going to receive a free Interval International Gold account (Interval International is DVC’s trading partner as of January 1, 2022). This relationship will give you access to Interval International’s cash Getaways without having to trade your DVC points. I thought Disney would block the Orlando getaway inventory from DVC members, but they didn’t. Most of the cash Getaways inventory will be in overbuilt areas like Orlando, Branson, Williamsburg, and probably not school vacation weeks. Marriott Vacation Club resorts in Orlando are beautiful and available on Getaways for usually around $500 a week for 1 and 2 bedrooms in shoulder seasons.

We have owned DVC since 2002, but don’t own as much DVC anymore because we have settled on what we need and where we want to go. We used to own a resale Marriott 2 bedroom lockoff week (not points) but sold it because we found out we liked Wyndham’s system better because they had the locations we wanted - Destin, Florida; Gatlinburg, TN; Waikiki, Hawaii; Myrtle Beach, SC; Wyndham Bonnet Creek near Disney. You can buy Wyndham points resale really cheap but pay attention to home resort because that makes a difference on maintenance fees.

I would read the Timeshare Users Group boards, tugbbs, and study their Wyndham, Marriott, etc. boards. They cover every name brand timeshare in detail. Good luck.

That's good to know. Most likely I will purchase a 200 point direct VGF contract at the end of this month. Will definitely explore the many off-site options for trips not centered on Disney. $500/week is crazy cheap. My schedule now that I'm retired is quite flexible.

 

[littlestar]

Being retired and flexible you should be able to take advantage of the cash getaways. Interval runs Getaway sales every once in a while, too. Interval also has short stay getaways.