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News Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind attraction confirmed for Epcot

Amidala

Well-Known Member
I don't think it is wrong per se, given the location and sponsor, but it goes back to the point that the legacy Epcot attractions are very much 'educational as approved by corporate public relations'. We've romanticized these edutainment attractions to be unfiltered education, but they weren't / aren't. It is a fair point.

This is a really interesting point! Especially when you consider that the political agendas of at least two corporations are involved in many cases (the ride's sponsor company, and Disney itself). RE: Renewable energy and "going green" in general, it also seems that it would benefit corporations to put the onus on guests ("Don't forget to recycle!"-style) since they can't exactly implicate themselves and other companies in doing more damage to the environment than any of us ever could at the individual level.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I don't think it is wrong per se, given the location and sponsor, but it goes back to the point that the legacy Epcot attractions are very much 'educational as approved by corporate public relations'. We've romanticized these edutainment attractions to be unfiltered education, but they weren't / aren't. It is a fair point.

(I'll leave that comment about the rest of the world being a 'dead end ...to the progress of communications' after Constantinople alone)

The term "edutainment" was used for a reason. I don't think anyone believes wdi story telling replaces real education. And of course UoE was labeled one of the worst for this... tho I don't think it was as bad as people claim. It was more about an energy commercial than whitewashing.

And yes, dead end. No matter how great those civilization's accomplishments were... when the civilization fails, fades, or is obliterated wholesale without any scavenging... if it's not used as a stepping stone or building block.. it's just history.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Sure, but museums aren't competing with Universal.

Oh, I know. I'm not advocating for things to stay the same. Was just making a point that people still enjoy being educated. But I don't think it's what they're looking for at a theme park. I know Epcot purists will disagree completely and I think they could mix both entertainment IPs and education but they aren't. Disney is catering to the mass public and their own self interests by installing hot property IPs. It is what it is. I welcome change but I think Guardians is in the wrong park, but I'm still looking forward to the attraction.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Just because the world we currently live in has technologically advanced itself beyond most of what Epcot "predicted" (minus of course most of Horizons), that doesn't mean that the ideals of the pavilions are outdated and need complete replacement. Energy as an ideal is still VERY much a real facet to our world, and one that could be explored in a unique and original way...rather than oh, throwing in a roller-coaster with some hot-selling movie characters.

You are missing two key factors.

First, it's that in a theme park attraction, and given how quickly things change it's really difficult to think of a design that is permanent that could be constantly tweaked based on the newest information.

But even if they could, that's also the second part of why it doesn't work - it's too controversial. Disney either picks a political side, or they make it so bland so as to appease the most people, and then it doesn't really make sense to do in the first place.

That's actually why using characters (or "IPs") actually starts to make more sense aside from just cross-promotion - it puts a layer between modern reality and the themes explored. In this case, I assume GoG will take the Star Trek approach - using a galactic crisis or energy issue as allegory.
 

Maeryk

Well-Known Member
I don't think it is wrong per se, given the location and sponsor, but it goes back to the point that the legacy Epcot attractions are very much 'educational as approved by corporate public relations'. We've romanticized these edutainment attractions to be unfiltered education, but they weren't / aren't. It is a fair point.

(I'll leave that comment about the rest of the world being a 'dead end ...to the progress of communications' after Constantinople alone)


Okay, the thing with SSE is that it's about worldwide communication. (and beyond), and worldwide, you are looking at the latin/greek/middle eastern languages, which is what it follows in development of the spoken word and oral (Then written) histories. It's not really a sleight on Asia or South America.. one stayed pretty much locked to itself, and one is a relative latecomer to the "worldwide" language phenomenon. As a flow of the story, it doesn't really make sense to say "and there were a couple of now dead cultures in South America.. and China was doing it's own thing, and Japan occasionally tried to take over Asia and failed".

But you are correct in saying the sponsors had some impact on how the story was presented.. and how their own fit into the story was shown.

But still.. it's a "The more you know" saturday morning level presentation of information than any kind of classroom education. Always has been. And as noted elsewhere, I agree with you.. if most of us rode WoM or Horizons today, I think we'd find them hokey, dated, and wonder what they were doing in a 21st century park.
 

Maeryk

Well-Known Member
The term "edutainment" was used for a reason. I don't think anyone believes wdi story telling replaces real education. And of course UoE was labeled one of the worst for this... tho I don't think it was as bad as people claim. It was more about an energy commercial than whitewashing.

And yes, dead end. No matter how great those civilization's accomplishments were... when the civilization fails, fades, or is obliterated wholesale without any scavenging... if it's not used as a stepping stone or building block.. it's just history.

Walt had a thing for Dinosaurs. It's evident from very early on.. (Fantasia) and cropped up in other places too. I think he wanted a dinosaur ride from day one, but the tech had not evolved to the point that they could do it "right" until plans for the Epcot pavilions were underway. And since there were still people involved who shared his specific zeal and dream, that's when it got done. The Energy concept almost seemed shoehorned in from the first day it opened. Mainly, it was a new ride tech (trackless, rotating theater) showcased in the biggest moving dinosaur sets anyone had ever seen. (Even if some of the moving parts were problematic).

Even with as hokey as it was, I still prefer the original to Ellen's Energy Lecture, and always will.
 

Kman101

Well-Known Member
My museum comment was more for the discussion about similar things before my post. Not really talking about competiting and theme parks, etc. I think if done right the original ideals of EPCOT could wow people but that's not what they're doing.
 

Maeryk

Well-Known Member
My museum comment was more for the discussion about similar things before my post. Not really talking about competiting and theme parks, etc. I think if done right the original ideals of EPCOT could wow people but that's not what they're doing.

I think they realized they can't keep up. It's as simple as that. From the drawing board to guests riding it, information and tech evolve faster than they can even project at this point. Or their bold predictions turn out to be wrong, as science/research shifts and realizes that X won't ever realistically happen. There were once over a dozen underwater habitats. Of those.. 3 still exist. One is a NOAA research facility which holds a whopping 6 people, one a NASA and military training facility, and one a hotel. When Horizons was on the drawing board and being built, it was a commonly held view that we would have massive underwater cities.. but they turned out to be a gimmick nobody wanted to invest in.. or live in. Plus scaling becomes difficult.. if you get more than 100 people in one, they begin to scope creep beyond feasible size.

WoM had that weird 3 minute wireframe end scene that always read to me like they wanted to predict something, and just went for projection instead.

At least The Land is actually a functional whatsit.. they actually are doing the research/practice they talk about, and it stands out as the one pavilion (at least to me) that has managed to continue with it's purpose and actually live up to it's promise.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Walt had a thing for Dinosaurs. It's evident from very early on.. (Fantasia) and cropped up in other places too. I think he wanted a dinosaur ride from day one, but the tech had not evolved to the point that they could do it "right" until plans for the Epcot pavilions were underway.

Don't forget.. the Dino Diorama in DL came from the World's Fair exhibits :)
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
The term "edutainment" was used for a reason. I don't think anyone believes wdi story telling replaces real education. And of course UoE was labeled one of the worst for this... tho I don't think it was as bad as people claim. It was more about an energy commercial than whitewashing.

And yes, dead end. No matter how great those civilization's accomplishments were... when the civilization fails, fades, or is obliterated wholesale without any scavenging... if it's not used as a stepping stone or building block.. it's just history.
Well that's the whole point of history! To learn about why a civilization fell and how we can emulate their successes without repeating their failures.
 

Maeryk

Well-Known Member
Well that's the whole point of history! To learn about why a civilization fell and how we can emulate their successes without repeating their failures.

Except that's NOT the point of SSE.. it's about communication, and how it started with a drawing on a wall, and spread to being able to talk to guys who have been in space for six months.. nobody is communicating with failed civilizations. It's not a "human history" ride, it's an evolution of communication ride.
 

EricsBiscuit

Well-Known Member
Except that's NOT the point of SSE.. it's about communication, and how it started with a drawing on a wall, and spread to being able to talk to guys who have been in space for six months.. nobody is communicating with failed civilizations. It's not a "human history" ride, it's an evolution of communication ride.
A counter point to your argument is that we need a backup system. After Rome fell and the LoA was burned it destroyed so much knowledge. So we can learn from history presented in the attraction that we need backups! Among many other things
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Well that's the whole point of history! To learn about why a civilization fell and how we can emulate their successes without repeating their failures.

If you were in a 'World History' class... ok. But that's not what SSE is. Just like we don't talk about who brought what medical advances in a class about Economics.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Except that's NOT the point of SSE.. it's about communication, and how it started with a drawing on a wall, and spread to being able to talk to guys who have been in space for six months.. nobody is communicating with failed civilizations. It's not a "human history" ride, it's an evolution of communication ride.

Exactly!
 

Maeryk

Well-Known Member
A counter point to your argument is that we need a backup system. After Rome fell and the LoA was burned it destroyed so much knowledge. So we can learn from history presented in the attraction that we need backups! Among many other things

Well, the point was we already had one..middle eastern scholars had copied a lot of the info down in the course of translating it.

But that still has little to do with asia or south america, who weren't in contact with the chain of events being discussed.
 

righttrack

Well-Known Member
I think the point of the sponsors is to give the "World's Fair" feel to Epcot. Having Monsanto talk about "The Land" isn't bad in that context. These are corporations showing their wares and how they accomplish things and educating us on that. That is the spirit of the World's Fair aspect and that, IMO, was the Epcot experience. Obviously times change, people change and looks like Epcot will change.
 

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
You are missing two key factors.

First, it's that in a theme park attraction, and given how quickly things change it's really difficult to think of a design that is permanent that could be constantly tweaked based on the newest information.

But even if they could, that's also the second part of why it doesn't work - it's too controversial. Disney either picks a political side, or they make it so bland so as to appease the most people, and then it doesn't really make sense to do in the first place.

That's actually why using characters (or "IPs") actually starts to make more sense aside from just cross-promotion - it puts a layer between modern reality and the themes explored. In this case, I assume GoG will take the Star Trek approach - using a galactic crisis or energy issue as allegory.
I hear what you're saying, and furthermore I agree. Disney does put themselves up against the ropes when they try to stay "current" or follow trends. But I believe they face the same issues with the IP's they include. They're only being selected based upon what's "hot" right now. The seas with Nemo and Friends will probably be updated to reflect Finding Dory, otherwise you're trying to stay relevant with a 14-year old IP.
 
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