Genie+ Replacement Idea

jasminethecat

Active Member
Original Poster
Preface:
Genie+ is not sustainable or scalable in its current form. Many guest reports are saying that standby lines are crawling and there are too many LL guests (from genie+ or ILL's depending on the ride) being admitted. Even wait times in the Lightning Lanes have been reported at over an hour during peak times, which is inexcusable. Each ride has a maximum capacity limit per hour, and that must be divided at some ratio between the two lanes. Right now, people are having a difficult time finding genie+ LL passes in the app, and while we don't know for sure, Bob Chapek said up to half of their guests were purchasing genie+. If every guest purchased genie+, there wouldn't be any more LL passes available. There would just be fewer available for everyone, and the standby line would still be moving way too slow for the guests who couldn't find a pass in the $15 per person addon they just purchased.

My proposal:
Disney should go back to a free fastpass system, offer fewer passes so it does not impact the regular standby lines, and just raise the ticket prices for everyone since they need money so badly. This proposal would help make everyone's vacation's better regardless if you like to plan in advance, the day-of, or not at all. That's also why it will probably be rejected, because it doesn't give anyone the feeling of an advantage. You'd have to go back to paying for a tour guide if you want to be at the front of every line, which is also a highly limited option.

Most importantly, the total number of passes per hour should probably be less than 25% of the actual ride capacity, and LL's should never get more than even priority (50/50) with the standby line in terms of boarding the actual ride. That number of passes could be slowly increased or decreased if the LL's always have less than a 5 minute wait time or greater than 15 minutes. Personally, I think that a solid 5-15 minutes should be the target wait times for LL's based on the ride's popularity. Half of the available fast passes should be released for reserved disney hotel guests 60 days out for people who want to fight over them and pre-plan trips, and the other half released on the day-of. It's a practical system where you can get reservations in advance if you have specific things you want to ride, park hotel guests get some tangible benefit for booking on site, people who don't plan far in advance still have a shot at making reservations, and standby riders aren't completely screwed over. And the best part (sarcastically) is that Disney still gets to overcharge, they're just doing it the the same to everyone, which makes the upcharge less per person and allows people the ability to factor in the total cost of a trip better during their booking phase.

Here is a realistic example assuming that 50% of guests currently pay for ILL and genie+ ride upcharges. Think about what you would prefer.
  • the final booking page says "your trip costs $5500" but you know you will have to pay $400 extra during the trip to get on rides every day. If you didn't know about that or you cannot afford it, you will have a horrible time in standby lines. If too many others buy genie+, you won't have passes anyway, so you'll be wasting your add-on money and still having a bad time.
  • the final booking page says "your trip costs $5700" and you know you will have the most fair experience possible with no surprise charges.
 

Graham9

Well-Known Member
Fastpass wasn't perfect, but it did work and gave people a reasoned chance to go on rides, especially when crowds were high. It needed a little tweaking and maybe updating, but it was a system that worked.

Genie+ is just a means of extracting money from people under a false belief that they are getting something of value for their money, it's worth having and is somehow going to enhance their Disney experience in some way.
 

mysto

Well-Known Member
I think it will work IF entry prices are increased a lot, like enough to cut attendance in half.

Otherwise the extremely limited free FPs will be gone in .02 seconds and most people will complain that they got nothing. Not a cure for unhappiness.
 

jasminethecat

Active Member
Original Poster
I think it will work IF entry prices are increased a lot, like enough to cut attendance in half.

Otherwise the extremely limited free FPs will be gone in .02 seconds and most people will complain that they got nothing. Not a cure for unhappiness.
To take a quote from Syndrome in The Incredibles, "I'll sell my inventions so everyone can be superheroes, everyone can be super. And when everyone's super, no one will be." Disney is trying to sell Genie+ in this way, and the same result will happen. Even if they put 100% of the ride spots into the LL, all it would do is shift all the people from one line to the other, and ruin everyone's experience. For an upcharge which people will be forced to pay just to be at the new equal.

I planned my last trip to WDW with FP+ in 2017. Most ride passes were gone in less than 10 mins, 60 days in advance. There were a few available when people changed/cancelled them, but nobody knew how the system worked so we just kept checking and re-checking. Some people got lucky and most people didn't get what they wanted even back then. People back then were saying that there were too many FP+'s being handed out every hour and the standby lines were suffering pre-covid. Today it's even worse.

Consider the 80/20 rule and put 80% of the people into either the standby or LL. For a ride which can serve 10,000 people in a day, do you want 2000 of them to feel special for moving quickly in the LL and 8000 of them to feel ok that they went through a normal standby line, or do you want 8000 of them to feel just ok because they paid extra for a pass and still had a sizeable wait time in the LL, and for 2000 to be really upset because they couldn't get a pass and they waited forever in standby? At the end of the day, the same number of people will be served on each ride, regardless of how people get their tickets or what line they entered.

Maybe there is a perfect ratio of LL to standby, where you maximize the experience for both groups. But what we have today isn't that and it cannot possibly lead to that unless they cap the sales of genie+. But this creates a new artificial boundary which will serve as a virtual lottery system for having a good time.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
It honestly doesn't matter what they do. The only way to fix it, is to add more rides or let less people though the gates. And Disney has zero interest in doing either. Every park needs multiple attractions. Especially ones that can move through large numbers of guests. But the odds of Disney doing that are less than me retiring tomorrow because I won 200 million dollars.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
That tactic worked for SO many years. And worked again after the reopening. Tried and true. Just one line amd everyone waits in it.
It works better for some than others. Regardless, there is too much demand for line skip systems for Disney to abandon them. They’re pretty much standard at all major parks.
 

DfromATX

Well-Known Member
I hate Genie+ and I loved Fast Passes, but unfortunately, no matter how much they raise prices, people will still go. I don't think that would make any difference.
 

Sawdust

Member
Preface:
Genie+ is not sustainable or scalable in its current form. Many guest reports are saying that standby lines are crawling and there are too many LL guests (from genie+ or ILL's depending on the ride) being admitted. Even wait times in the Lightning Lanes have been reported at over an hour during peak times, which is inexcusable. Each ride has a maximum capacity limit per hour, and that must be divided at some ratio between the two lanes. Right now, people are having a difficult time finding genie+ LL passes in the app, and while we don't know for sure, Bob Chapek said up to half of their guests were purchasing genie+. If every guest purchased genie+, there wouldn't be any more LL passes available. There would just be fewer available for everyone, and the standby line would still be moving way too slow for the guests who couldn't find a pass in the $15 per person addon they just purchased.

My proposal:
Disney should go back to a free fastpass system, offer fewer passes so it does not impact the regular standby lines, and just raise the ticket prices for everyone since they need money so badly. This proposal would help make everyone's vacation's better regardless if you like to plan in advance, the day-of, or not at all. That's also why it will probably be rejected, because it doesn't give anyone the feeling of an advantage. You'd have to go back to paying for a tour guide if you want to be at the front of every line, which is also a highly limited option.

Most importantly, the total number of passes per hour should probably be less than 25% of the actual ride capacity, and LL's should never get more than even priority (50/50) with the standby line in terms of boarding the actual ride. That number of passes could be slowly increased or decreased if the LL's always have less than a 5 minute wait time or greater than 15 minutes. Personally, I think that a solid 5-15 minutes should be the target wait times for LL's based on the ride's popularity. Half of the available fast passes should be released for reserved disney hotel guests 60 days out for people who want to fight over them and pre-plan trips, and the other half released on the day-of. It's a practical system where you can get reservations in advance if you have specific things you want to ride, park hotel guests get some tangible benefit for booking on site, people who don't plan far in advance still have a shot at making reservations, and standby riders aren't completely screwed over. And the best part (sarcastically) is that Disney still gets to overcharge, they're just doing it the the same to everyone, which makes the upcharge less per person and allows people the ability to factor in the total cost of a trip better during their booking phase.

Here is a realistic example assuming that 50% of guests currently pay for ILL and genie+ ride upcharges. Think about what you would prefer.
  • the final booking page says "your trip costs $5500" but you know you will have to pay $400 extra during the trip to get on rides every day. If you didn't know about that or you cannot afford it, you will have a horrible time in standby lines. If too many others buy genie+, you won't have passes anyway, so you'll be wasting your add-on money and still having a bad time.
  • the final booking page says "your trip costs $5700" and you know you will have the most fair experience possible with no surprise charges.
I haven't even arrived at the park and already hate Genie+. Our trip is a month away but we've tried some morning practice runs just to see if we can get the LL pass for some of the popular rides. Attractions like Rise of the Resistance sell out in a few mins, I'm regretting booking this trip.
 

Pepper's Ghost

Well-Known Member
It honestly doesn't matter what they do. The only way to fix it, is to add more rides or let less people though the gates. And Disney has zero interest in doing either. Every park needs multiple attractions. Especially ones that can move through large numbers of guests. But the odds of Disney doing that are less than me retiring tomorrow because I won 200 million dollars.
I know people hate hearing it, but raising ticket prices substantially is the only way to stem the avalanche of visitors in the park. People can't complain about price increases, and then in the same paragraph complain about crowds and wait times. They're very distinctly tied together. Supply and demand. The more "affordable" (in visitors' eyes) that the parks are, the more visitors will attend.

I've said it a dozen times, double or triple the ticket prices, and the crowds will become manageable enough not to need FP, LL, or G+. It's so simple. I know those who want to visit, but are on a more strict budget won't like it, but rather than visiting every year, save up for 2 or 3 years and you'll be able to afford one much better trip every 3 years with much smaller crowds and a lot more to do. Everyone wins. Disney is making much more at the gates, smaller crowds and complaints, people are enjoying 20-30 min waits in standy-by... win, win, win, win, win.

mission accomplished.gif
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I haven't even arrived at the park and already hate Genie+. Our trip is a month away but we've tried some morning practice runs just to see if we can get the LL pass for some of the popular rides. Attractions like Rise of the Resistance sell out in a few mins, I'm regretting booking this trip.
Rise is new and will sell out in minutes for the foreseeable future. That said, you're looking at spring break crowds right now. If your trip is still a month away, the spring break crowds will be long gone and crowd levels should be much more manageable for the other ILLs and for Genie+.

I used Genie+ when it first started in late October 2021. I don't like it - it was nowhere near as good for us as FP+. But we were able to use it to avoid long lines on several rides, and we were able to purchase ILLs for Rise, Remy and FOP. The only difficult one was Rise, and even then we got it and were able to schedule it for mid-afternoon. We had no wait at all in any of the LLs. The crowds in early May should be even lighter than in late October. I wouldn't give up hope at all.

Good luck with your trip. I hope you have a great time!
 

jasminethecat

Active Member
Original Poster
I haven't even arrived at the park and already hate Genie+. Our trip is a month away but we've tried some morning practice runs just to see if we can get the LL pass for some of the popular rides. Attractions like Rise of the Resistance sell out in a few mins, I'm regretting booking this trip.
Try to stay positive, and use the rope drops and the end of the day lines to your advantage. It’s easy to be jaded here on the forums but you’re going to Disney World! Have a funnel cake or an orange dole whip for me and have as much fun as you can. It’s not a failed trip if you have fun with your family and make positive memories together.

By “end of the day lines” I mean that if you really want to ride something then get in line right at the end of the park’s day. You’re guaranteed to get on unless the ride breaks.
 

Skibum1970

Well-Known Member
It honestly doesn't matter what they do. The only way to fix it, is to add more rides or let less people though the gates. And Disney has zero interest in doing either. Every park needs multiple attractions. Especially ones that can move through large numbers of guests. But the odds of Disney doing that are less than me retiring tomorrow because I won 200 million dollars.

I agree completely and I also like Erasure. Adding rides at Epcot, AK, and Studios to spread the crowds would help and those rides need capacities of at least 2,000 pph.

I would either shelve Genie+/FP+ or would make it $150/day/guest and sell a limited number so as to not impact the regular guests. I would prefer no FP/Genie but, if we have to have it, I would prefer that it be limited and more expensive. Yes, those with money can get more benefit but the main thing is that the standby lines would not be impacted or would have minimal impact.
 

Sawdust

Member
Try to stay positive, and use the rope drops and the end of the day lines to your advantage. It’s easy to be jaded here on the forums but you’re going to Disney World! Have a funnel cake or an orange dole whip for me and have as much fun as you can. It’s not a failed trip if you have fun with your family and make positive memories together.

By “end of the day lines” I mean that if you really want to ride something then get in line right at the end of the park’s day. You’re guaranteed to get on unless the ride breaks.
Thank you for the encouragement. We haven’t been to WDW in 16 years and it’s a first fir the kids. I’m sure they will have a ball since they have no point of reference. In the end we’ll have good memories.
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
I know people hate hearing it, but raising ticket prices substantially is the only way to stem the avalanche of visitors in the park. People can't complain about price increases, and then in the same paragraph complain about crowds and wait times. They're very distinctly tied together. Supply and demand. The more "affordable" (in visitors' eyes) that the parks are, the more visitors will attend.

I've said it a dozen times, double or triple the ticket prices, and the crowds will become manageable enough not to need FP, LL, or G+. It's so simple. I know those who want to visit, but are on a more strict budget won't like it, but rather than visiting every year, save up for 2 or 3 years and you'll be able to afford one much better trip every 3 years with much smaller crowds and a lot more to do. Everyone wins. Disney is making much more at the gates, smaller crowds and complaints, people are enjoying 20-30 min waits in standy-by... win, win, win, win, win.
I've said that as well. Really I just want to see what would happen if they did it. Just stop the nickel and dime nonsense and just see how far you can push it.

Unfortunately, that really isn't a solution. The parks need capacity. You have 3 parks embarrassingly low on attractions. And you have a company that has no motivation to spend the cash needed to ease the pressure. They are plenty fine with the current strategy since attendance isn't lacking.
 

Kramerica

Well-Known Member
I really like Universals Xpress Pass system. It’s pretty darn expensive, but essentially allows you to splurge and have your run of the whole park for a day. The high cost keeps the amount of people using it to a lower amount, creating less of a burden on standby. It’s not confusing and doesn’t require a ton of extra planning or waking up early to book passes, it also allows you to do what you want, when you want.
 

mysto

Well-Known Member
Try to stay positive, and use the rope drops and the end of the day lines to your advantage. It’s easy to be jaded here on the forums but you’re going to Disney World! Have a funnel cake or an orange dole whip for me and have as much fun as you can. It’s not a failed trip if you have fun with your family and make positive memories together.

By “end of the day lines” I mean that if you really want to ride something then get in line right at the end of the park’s day. You’re guaranteed to get on unless the ride breaks.
This is really sweet. And I like the original cat avatar, glad you kept it as an inset.
 

beachlover4444

Well-Known Member
We are over 60 now and standing in lines is tough on our knees we will buy it just to help us. Question how do I buy genie plus if I’ve already bought my tickets awhile ago
 

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