General political chat

thenerdbaker

Well-Known Member
Watch the video of the car window being smashed with a flag - it's an Antifa flag.
I will agree that they are coming out of the shadows to cause trouble but I have also seen and heard of others posing as them. It not easy to tell the truth from the lie at this point. I know some people that identify or used to identify as Antifa who are saying it's not actually them but honestly who knows anymore. Its all emotionally exhausting. They usually strike after the police do tho. Whoever is actually doing this is using the anger of the people against them. Not trying to discredit you in any way. Just trying to wrap my head around all the info coming from many different places.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
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I will agree that they are coming out of the shadows to cause trouble but I have also seen and heard of others posing as them. It not easy to tell the truth from the lie at this point. I know some people that identify or used to identify as Antifa who are saying it's not actually them but honestly who knows anymore. Its all emotionally exhausting. They usually strike after the police do tho. Whoever is actually doing this is using the anger of the people against them. Not trying to discredit you in any way. Just trying to wrap my head around all the info coming from many different places.
I get it.

I just take issue with an organization that encourages it's members to not only conceal their identities, but also to use violence.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...extremism in any form is never a good thing.
 

thenerdbaker

Well-Known Member
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I get it.

I just take issue with an organization that encourages it's members to not only conceal their identities, but also to use violence.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...extremism in any form is never a good thing.
The problem is Anifa is not one group. It is many groups with a core message. They are anti fascist. I worry Trump will start claiming any protester who leans left is one because of this but that's a different discussion. These groups have been around for a long long time. The people I know go out and protect people at protests and fight off the white supremacists. That's why I can't wrap my head around who these guys are or who they are working for. They seem like a scapegoat right now and if today actual Antifa are being violent it might be because of what Trump did this morning. I really don't know tho. Clearly the BLM people are doing the best they can to keep it peaceful but when provoked will lash out. I was watching a video from Unicorn Riot (left leaning but I have noticed takes both sides into account) that said many of the people tried to stop the original fires but an organized small group kept showing up to start them. Like I said a lot has gone down and it's really hard to tell what is really going down here. A lot of this is fishy. A lot.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
for

The problem is Anifa is not one group. It is many groups with a core message. They are anti fascist. I worry Trump will start claiming any protester who leans left is one because of this but that's a different discussion. These groups have been around for a long long time. The people I know go out and protect people at protests and fight off the white supremacists. That's why I can't wrap my head around who these guys are or who they are working for. They seem like a scapegoat right now and if today actual Antifa are being violent it might be because of what Trump did this morning. I really don't know tho. Clearly the BLM people are doing the best they can to keep it peaceful but when provoked will lash out. I was watching a video from Unicorn Riot (left leaning but I have noticed takes both sides into account) that said many of the people tried to stop the original fires but an organized small group kept showing up to start them. Like I said a lot has gone down and it's really hard to tell what is really going down here. A lot of this is fishy. A lot.
I think we need to stop caring what side is doing this. You are clearly left wing, but you don't need to defend Antifa because they are extremist left-wing.

That's the logical fallacy in most of these discussions that leads to hesitancy for the 'side' that is committing the crimes to address them head on. I'm sure there are some evil white supremacists out there but I've seen too much evidence of Antifa symbols, flags, and chaos to be confused as to what terrorist organization is ruining these mostly very peaceful BLM protests.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
People aren't just stupid, they're awful.

All kinds of groups continue to do things and support things against their own interest. Does everyone just feel they have nothing to lose?

Just as I was appalled and disheartened by how many people were so callous about COVID-19, and putting money above lives, and trivializing the deaths of older folks and others - I was also appalled by how many people are justifying riots and looting, and trivializing the destruction like, "Well, that's what you get." No, it isn't.

It's just mind-blowing how so many people across the board buy into baloney and then won't ever let go of it. As if it were their original idea they had anything to do with.

Some people are clearly sincerely protesting not only the recent death but all the other deaths before it, and more.

And then people are coming in (generally late at night, as those peaceful protests are winding down) to cause trouble. Maybe a percentage of them think they are doing what is necessary to be heard. (I'd disagree with them vehemently.) But clearly some are being opportunistic. Stealing from a closed Target store, or from mom & pop shops, serves no one but the person stealing. Some are bored and are just wannabes or want attention.

Most are wearing masks, some are not, and no, COVID-19 didn't take a holiday.

I feel like I'm fighting against a tide of idiots who all just want to self-destruct, grab power, grab money, and throw all morality out the window rather than fix anything.
 

thenerdbaker

Well-Known Member
I think we need to stop caring what side is doing this. You are clearly left wing, but you don't need to defend Antifa because they are extremist left-wing.

That's the logical fallacy in most of these discussions that leads to hesitancy for the 'side' that is committing the crimes to address them head on. I'm sure there are some evil white supremacists out there but I've seen too much evidence of Antifa symbols, flags, and chaos to be confused as to what terrorist organization is ruining these mostly very peaceful BLM protests.
As I just said Antifa is not one group. It is many and has been around since 1920 in Italy. They helped fight off a neo Nazis movement in England on the 1970's. Have protected queer people and people of other races. They became known recently because they would show up to BLM protests and keep them safe. The question is what group that identifies as them is doing this if they are doing it. It could also be people posing as them. As I have said earlier people have said BLM is Antifa because of what they stand for. Its hard to just say Antifa did anything when so many groups could be called Antifa. I take offense to saying there are some evil white supremacists. All white supremacists are evil. No question. Not all anti fascist are bad. Its a blanket term for people against fascism. Some organizations that identify as that probably are bad. You will always get bad apples. This subject is not as black and white as you want to believe.
 

Tony the Tigger

Well-Known Member
Reports West Palm Beach is being looted - Target, outlet malls, etc.

We saw on the news as protesters in Fort Lauderdale attempted to break the window of a CVS, other protesters stopped them. That particular looting didn't happen.

I have skin in the game via two vulnerable storefronts, already on the ropes due to COVID-19. I have everything on the line right now. I do not need more direct or indirect interference from people who make up their own [deleted] rules and justify their behavior with flimsy nonsense. That goes for Trump loving virus deniers as well as looters and rioters. You're all wrong. You're all putting lives at risk.

We're under curfew tonight. Rents are due tomorrow. Let's close everything early for God knows how many days, and scare people into staying home - or worse, have our windows broken and be closed again. Half the actual stores I shop for Shipt are either blocked off by protesters or have heavy police presence in anticipation of anything happening at any moment. I stopped early today. The stores had been doing very well since reopening. Today, not so much.

I don't trust society. I don't trust the dumb masses. I don't trust the King of All Idiots in the White House or his cronies. I'll never understand how any decent person supports him. And I mean that. I genuinely think less of people now - family members, friends - you should see all the racist-adjacent comments I'm seeing on social media (I guess it mirrors here, but it's different when it's coming from your friend from high school vs. usernames on a Disney site.)

There's a line: if you're calling everyone protesting "thugs," you're being racist. Period.

There's a line: if you think destroying property and police cars, and stealing are justified means of expression, you're wrong. Period.

Only here is Antifa once again elevated to such a prominent level of discourse, when they are likely such a tiny part of this nationwide sad story. This place is given to gossip and conspiracy theories.

Let one person try to tell me the world wasn't better under Obama.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
As I just said Antifa is not one group. It is many and has been around since 1920 in Italy. They helped fight off a neo Nazis movement in England on the 1970's. Have protected queer people and people of other races. They became known recently because they would show up to BLM protests and keep them safe. The question is what group that identifies as them is doing this if they are doing it. It could also be people posing as them. As I have said earlier people have said BLM is Antifa because of what they stand for. Its hard to just say Antifa did anything when so many groups could be called Antifa. I take offense to saying there are some evil white supremacists. All white supremacists are evil. No question. Not all anti fascist are bad. Its a blanket term for people against fascism. Some organizations that identify as that probably are bad. You will always get bad apples. This subject is not as black and white as you want to believe.
You're misreading a lot of stuff. First off there is no need to take offense to 'some' evil white supremicist. That's clearly you reading the sentence wrong as I'm saying there may be some of those at these rallies. Not that some of them are evil. Second, I feel like you're grossly understating the violent reach of this organization by claiming there are 'some' bad apples, when cities across the country are currently burning. That said, I can empathize with it didn't start off as militant, and maybe it didn't used to be all bad. But I am against violence in any form that harms civilians; from unnecessary wars in the Middle East to domestic terrorism. What is going on across the country is terrorism, and again, at this point I don't care what 'side' is doing it - it needs to end and fast.

Lastly, where is Trump? Bad optics in my opinion as a leader. You're supposed to be the face of the nation. The radical left will hate you no matter what you do, but for the rest of the country we look to you for leadership. Tweeting is not that. There should have been an Oval Office address tonight or last night.
 

Gitson Shiggles

There was me, that is Mickey, and my three droogs

A little info on the actual history of Antifa and what it actually is. I'm sure many will have issues with my source and some parts are opinions of the person interviewed.
We get it. You want to enlighten us on who or what AntiFa is. Unless your apparent affinity for the group is clouding your knowledge, you should also know the group is not strictly “anti-fascist.” They are also anarchists and anarcho-communists who are anti-police, anti-state, and anti-capitalist. They admittedly resort to violence and destruction, and will use flimsy rationale to commit that violence. They are losers. That's straight up crap. Full stop.
 

thenerdbaker

Well-Known Member
You're misreading a lot of stuff. First off there is no need to take offense to 'some' evil white supremicist. That's clearly you reading the sentence wrong as I'm saying there may be some of those at these rallies. Not that some of them are evil. Second, I feel like you're grossly understating the violent reach of this organization by claiming there are 'some' bad apples, when cities across the country are currently burning. That said, I can empathize with it didn't start off as militant, and maybe it didn't used to be all bad. But I am against violence in any form that harms civilians; from unnecessary wars in the Middle East to domestic terrorism. What is going on across the country is terrorism, and again, at this point I don't care what 'side' is doing it - it needs to end and fast.

Lastly, where is Trump? Bad optics in my opinion as a leader. You're supposed to be the face of the nation. The radical left will hate you no matter what you do, but for the rest of the country we look to you for leadership. Tweeting is not that. There should have been an Oval Office address tonight or last night.
My issue was saying some evil white supremacists. Just saying white supremacists is fine because ultimately they are all evil and the way the statement was said left it open to interpretation. I should have gone about it in a better way so I'm sorry about that. I agree at this point it does need to end. Wide spread police reform would do it and so would leaders actually leading and saying we will work on this issue right away.

I 100% agree with your point on Trump. I am also just very suspicious about everything going on. It just seems weird that most of these protests are becoming riots and if this goes no longer martial law. Its also weird how much Trump seems to be stocking the flames. I'm not 100% convinced he is not pulling the strings in some way. I have said many times a lot of what is going on if you dig deeper if very fishy. I do not trust that man as far as I can throw him and the more his ratings drop the more desperate he becomes. Also I may just be thinking about it to much. Just seems like a lot of weird coincidences all at once.
 
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