General political chat

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
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Catholics do not put such emphasis on Leviticus. It’s so odd that it’s always the go-to book for people when wanting to criticize.

There are religions who do use the teaching in Leviticus a lot more than Catholicism (or any Christian religion ever has, or does currently)
The Levites did make a mean BBQ
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I have to ask you though, as a genuine spiritual question: do you consider the possibility that, rather than accepting God’s path for you, that you are instead giving in to temptation?
To call it temptation is, I think, to imply that sexuality is purely to do with one's sexual desires. That isn't a view I subscribe to. For me at least, being gay has implications well outside the bedroom, just as your being straight is bound up with your overall identity and personality in ways you may not be fully conscious of. One of my most vivid childhood memories is watching a camcorder video of myself as a nine-year-old boy just after we'd returned from our first holiday to the USA (when I first discovered the Disney parks!). I couldn't believe how effeminate I came across and was deeply ashamed of the girly-boy prancing around onscreen: it was like a nightmarish revelation of something of which I'd been entirely unaware up to that point. What I was seeing, of course, was my innate and unchangeable gay self, and though it certainly isn't the case that all gay boys are camp (many aren't), I most certainly was. This clearly had nothing to do with sex—I was still an innocent prepubescent kid—nor was it learned behaviour: I grew up in a traditional (though secular) household with a mother and a father and absolutely no gay role models, whether actual or televisual. Watching that video was a turning point: I spent the the next chunk of my life trying to modify my mannerisms and suppress my growing sense of attraction to other boys, to very little avail, of course.

What I'm trying to say is that my gayness is inseparable from me as a person. It is and has always been a far-reaching and defining aspect of my overall being. I practised celibacy during my closeted years and felt utterly miserable as a result, with sexual frustration being only a minor part of the issue: the real source of my anguish was that I was rejecting and scorning the person I was made to be. Eventually, the lights came on and I realised the futility and stupidity of what I was putting myself through. No all-loving God would want me to choose such a pointless, dispiriting path in life. Such oppression, whether inflicted on oneself or dictated by others, is the very antithesis of divine love.
 
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OneofThree

Well-Known Member
No all-loving God would want me to choose such a pointless, dispiriting path in life. Such oppression, whether inflicted on oneself or dictated by others, is the very antithesis of divine love.
What we have isn't what was meant to be, or "chosen" for us. By definition, axiological value concerning the eternal isn't located in the temporal.

What's your working definition for "divine love"? How is it best demonstrated? It's ultimate form? Is it selfish? Selfless?
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
What's your working definition for "divine love"? How is it best demonstrated? It's ultimate form? Is it selfish? Selfless?
I can best analogise it as the love a parent has for their child. I don't have or want children, but if I did, I would want them to be happy, productive, true to themselves, and considerate of others. I feel loved by God since coming out; I felt alienated from Him before.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
I actually think many of us are perfectly happy to answer questions (probing or otherwise), so long as we feel they're open and genuinely inquisitive rather than leading or badgering.
Is it possible to consider that some people may feel a question is ‘leading or badgering’ because their own views of people with differing views are badgering and hateful?
That it’s projection more than reality?

If the same people always think that an request for an explanation of a statement., is a “quiz” and not a question within normal discourse, can’t fathom why they’d be expected to go beyond a talking point, then maybe the issue is not with the questions.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Is it possible to consider that some people may feel a question is ‘leading or badgering’ because their own views of people with differing views are badgering and hateful?
That it’s projection more than reality?

If the same people always think that an request for an explanation of a statement., is a “quiz” and not a question within normal discourse, can’t fathom why they’d be expected to go beyond a talking point, then maybe the issue is not with the questions.
With all due respect, multiple individuals from across the political spectrum have complained to you of your posting style. This should have prompted at least a modicum of self-reflection on your part.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
With all due respect, multiple individuals from across the political spectrum have complained to you of your posting style. This should have prompted at least a modicum of self-reflection on your part.
I have yet to see someone, other than the same specific trump-ranting individuals, actually bulk from answering a question.. there’s typically conviction behind thoughts with most individuals in general (or maybe less these days, but I’ll try to be optimistic here), even in the midst of disagreement, people are able to explain and answer. How else could one hold a conviction if they can’t field questions on it? Or if they won’t field questions, then what’s the purpose of starting or joining a discussion with different viewpoints in the first place?

I’ve stated many times that I have no wish to be part of a “like” club, I value my individual convictions as my own.. and, because they’re my own and not following a set agenda, it would be impossible for me to be in agreement with anyone on every subject. Regardless of if we align politically or not.
I don’t understand the point of a popularity contest online, I’m here for legit discussion, not a pseudo social circle of fawning and agreement
 
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BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
Bill Maher offers Trump a check to leave office: 'You love money'


Liberal comedian and commentator Bill Maher offered President Trump $1 million to resign during his show Friday night.

"Just take my check for $1 million," Maher, a long-standing Trump critic, said on HBO's "Real Time."

"I bet I could get another 1,000 people just from here to the beach - including Malibu, of course - who would pay that much to see you resign," Maher added.

Maher concluded, "Mr. President, it is really very simple. You love money. We hate you."
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
Is it possible to consider that some people may feel a question is ‘leading or badgering’ because their own views of people with differing views are badgering and hateful?
That it’s projection more than reality?

If the same people always think that an request for an explanation of a statement., is a “quiz” and not a question within normal discourse, can’t fathom why they’d be expected to go beyond a talking point, then maybe the issue is not with the questions.
No, they think your questions are badgering because they are - at least more often than not. You apparently cannot see it, nor do you understand how annoying it can be. Most of the people I have discussions with in real life do not throw a list of questions at me when they do not agree with something I've said, or really want to know how I've formed a particular opinion. Someone who wants to argue or browbeat me into agreeing with their POV does.

And any further questions will bring you really close to badgering. In case you can't tell.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
No, they think your questions are badgering because they are - at least more often than not. You apparently cannot see it, nor do you understand how annoying it can be. Most of the people I have discussions with in real life do not throw a list of questions at me when they do not agree with something I've said, or really want to know how I've formed a particular opinion. Someone who wants to argue or browbeat me into agreeing with their POV do.

And any further questions will bring you really close to badgering. In case you can't tell.
We differ here greatly. I have friends who think very differently than me on a lot of subjects. I’ll use politics as an example- we question each other and do want to know how we formed that opinion. We don’t always agree, but we can respect that the opinion comes from a good place, not hysteria or misinformation.

I do have to add something thread related here, I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve been called a ‘bigot’ or ‘homophobic’ in this board.. maybe if someone asked for a deeper explanation, then they would realize that I’m not homophobic at all, far from.. that’s where understanding comes into play, even if you disagree on specific issues., you can find that a disagreement on a specific issue doesn’t paint a picture of the larger issue. You won’t get there with assumptions, only questions.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I have yet to see someone, other than the same specific trump-ranting individuals, actually bulk from answering a question.. there’s typically conviction behind thoughts with most individuals in like in general (or maybe less these days, but I’ll try to be optimistic here), even in disagreement, people are able to explain and answer. How else could one hold a conviction if they can’t field questions on it? Or if they won’t field questions, then what’s the purpose of starting or joining a discussion with different viewpoints in the first place?
If we take the last week or so as typical, you've asked me multiple questions to which I've responded. You've then proceeded to disregard my answers and blithely make crap up about my stance on various issues. You don't listen to, respect, or acknowledge any of the answers you're given, which means that you are not actually interested in good-faith discussion.

A Disney analogy (the best kind!) springs to mind:

You: Which WDW parks do you like?
Me: I like all four parks.
You: Outrageous! LittleBuford only likes Magic Kingdom.
Me: No, I just said I like all four parks.
You: Some people, such as LittleBuford, are so blinkered that they only like Magic Kingdom.
Me: As I just told you, that isn't the case at all. I like all four parks, including but not limited to Magic Kingdom.
You: I hope you now understand why we disagree. It's very easy to think that Magic Kingdom is the only park worth visiting, but some of us actually bother to try other things.
Me: 😦

This is why I now characterise your approach as dishonest. If you keep on disregarding correction after correction and posting untruths about someone's position, you are, quite simply, lying. Now, there's an alternative explanation, which is that you think I'm lying in my answers, in which case I wish you'd say something like, "LittleBuford claims to like all four parks, but I believe, for such-and-such reasons, that he actually only like Magic Kingdom." This would be discourteous of you, but at least it would make some sort of strange sense. As things stand, however, you are repeatedly and deliberately misrepresenting what I and others tell you. Is it any wonder we can't take your questions at face value?
 
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OneofThree

Well-Known Member
I can best analogise it as the love a parent has for their child. I don't have or want children, but if I did, I would want them to be happy, productive, true to themselves, and considerate of others. I feel loved by God since coming out; I felt alienated from Him before.
Then what of the child, who will know only fear, pain, hunger, and suffering, perhaps never to become an adult? Is this one not loved?
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Then what of the child, who will know only fear, pain, hunger, and suffering, perhaps never to become an adult? Is this one not loved?
You're referring to a different kind of suffering, caused by factors beyond the child's control. Of course God loves such a child.

The suffering I felt was self-inflicted, and it was entirely in my power to undo it.
 

Club Cooloholic

Well-Known Member
We don’t always agree, but we can respect that the opinion comes from a good place, not hysteria or misinformation.
And here is where you are losing people and why it's badgering. When you come from a place that puts down the way another is forming their opinion, there really is nowhere to go. Simply put you are more often than not, "offensive" to others.
 
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21stamps

Well-Known Member
If we take the last week or so as typical, you've asked me multiple questions to which I've responded. You've then proceeded to disregard my answers and blithely make crap up about my stance on various issues. You don't listen to, respect, or acknowledge any of the answers you're given, which means that you are not actually interested in good-faith discussion.

A Disney analogy (the best kind!) springs to mind:

You: Which WDW parks do you like?
Me: I like all four parks.
You: Outrageous! LittleBuford only likes Magic Kingdom.
Me: No, I just said I like all four parks.
You: Some people, such as LittleBuford, are so blinkered that they only like Magic Kingdom.
Me: As I just told you, that isn't the case at all. I like all four parks, including but not limited to Magic Kingdom.
You: I hope you now understand why we disagree. It's very easy to think that Magic Kingdom is the only park worth visiting, but some of us actually bother to try other things.
Me: 😦

This is why I now characterise your approach as dishonest. If you keep on disregarding correction after correction and posting untruths about someone's position, you are, quite simply, lying. Now, there's an alternative explanation, which is that you think I'm lying in my answers, in which case I wish you'd say something like, "LittleBuford claims to like all four parks, but I believe, for such-and-such reasons, that he actually only like Magic Kingdom." This would be a discourteous of you, but at least it would make some sort of strange sense. As things stand, however, you are repeatedly and deliberately misrepresenting what I and others tell you. Is it any wonder we can't take your questions at face value?
With all due respect, I was expecting any response to that quote to include examples of what you threw out when saying “multiple people from political spectrums”. ;)
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
With all due respect, I was expecting any response to that quote to include examples of what you threw out when saying “multiple people from political spectrums”. ;)
Oh, I can name names; I just don't think it would be appropriate of me to do so. But you can count me and @The Mom as two people of rather different political leanings.
 

BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
If we take the last week or so as typical, you've asked me multiple questions to which I've responded. You've then proceeded to disregard my answers and blithely make crap up about my stance on various issues. You don't listen to, respect, or acknowledge any of the answers you're given, which means that you are not actually interested in good-faith discussion.

A Disney analogy (the best kind!) springs to mind:

You: Which WDW parks do you like?
Me: I like all four parks.
You: Outrageous! LittleBuford only likes Magic Kingdom.
Me: No, I just said I like all four parks.
You: Some people, such as LittleBuford, are so blinkered that they only like Magic Kingdom.
Me: As I just told you, that isn't the case at all. I like all four parks, including but not limited to Magic Kingdom.
You: I hope you now understand why we disagree. It's very easy to think that Magic Kingdom is the only park worth visiting, but some of us actually bother to try other things.
Me: 😦

This is why I now characterise your approach as dishonest. If you keep on disregarding correction after correction and posting untruths about someone's position, you are, quite simply, lying. Now, there's an alternative explanation, which is that you think I'm lying in my answers, in which case I wish you'd say something like, "LittleBuford claims to like all four parks, but I believe, for such-and-such reasons, that he actually only like Magic Kingdom." This would be discourteous of you, but at least it would make some sort of strange sense. As things stand, however, you are repeatedly and deliberately misrepresenting what I and others tell you. Is it any wonder we can't take your questions at face value?
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