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General political chat

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Thanks! I’m really just inquiring; as I’m not the most knowledgeable about it and I am sure some on here can help elaborate how the middle east got to where it and why ISIS even came to be.

I was under the impression it is greatly related to decisions made by the US during the Bush era.
The toppling of Saddam Hussein (which, again, wasn't just an American act) paved the way for a number of Iraqi insurgent groups to make their bid for power. The precursor to IS was among those groups.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
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The toppling of Saddam Hussein (which, again, wasn't just an American act) paved the way for a number of Iraqi insurgent groups to make their bid for power. The precursor to IS was among those groups.
and obviously Saddam Hussein was a monster, so I guess one starts to wonder if it was worth it? Should anyone have even gotten involved? It’s such a mess of a situation.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
and obviously Saddam Hussein was a monster, so I guess one starts to wonder if it was worth it? Should anyone have even gotten involved? It’s such a mess of a situation.
The reason given for the invasion was that Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction, which turned out not to be the case. Some hold that the reason was a spurious pretext from the outset, with oil being the real motive, but I actually think both Blair and Bush sincerely believed in the existence of the claimed weapons. Regardless, I don't think anyone can look back on the decision to invade without a sense of regret or, at the very least, ambivalence.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
So that started the unrest, and then 2003 was the catalyst for the forming of modern day ISIS?
No, not just that from WWI to II there was a lot of issues then WWII happened further complicating things.

Then add in the Jews creating the state of Israel after the horrors of the Holocaust, the splitting up of Trans-Jordan, the wars with Israel, the rise of modern terrorism (really taking its current form in the early 70s). Then add in the Egyptian-Israeli Peace Accords in Camp David in the later 70s angering a lot of the Middle East and leading to Sadat’s murder. Iran-Iraq war from 1980-88; Iran Revolution.

In short, before we get to the first Gulf War there was a lot of things that happened to get us to 2003 with Bush ready to go to war.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
The reason given for the invasion was that Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction, which turned out not to be the case. Some hold that the reason was a spurious pretext from the outset, with oil being the real motive, but I actually think both Blair and Bush sincerely believed in the existence of the claimed weapons. Regardless, I don't think anyone can look back on the decision to invade without a sense of regret or, at the very least, ambivalence.
Ahh. It’s all flooding back to me now. I was only 12 in 2003 and was not very concerned with what was happening between then and my adulthood...
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
No, not just that from WWI to II there was a lot of issues then WWII happened further complicating things.

Then add in the Jews creating the state of Israel after the horrors of the Holocaust, the splitting up of Trans-Jordan, the wars with Israel, the rise of modern terrorism (really taking its current form in the early 70s). Then add in the Egyptian-Israeli Peace Accords in Camp David in the later 70s angering a lot of the Middle East and leading to Sadat’s murder. Iran-Iraq war from 1980-88; Iran Revolution.

In short, before we get to the first Gulf War there was a lot of things that happened to get us to 2003 with Bush ready to go to war.
liking only because I truly appreciate the information and you sharing it. I do not like the actual history that is being shared mind you.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
I've said it before, but one can support both Israel and the Palestinians. One doesn't need to pose a dichotomy (and I'm not saying you are).
We had nearly the entire world behind us to go into Afghanistan. We told them to hand him over, the Taliban said no. 100% justifiable.

Iraq? Not so much, I was not a fan of invasion then, now? Even worse in hindsight.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
We had nearly the entire world behind us to go into Afghanistan. We told them to hand him over, the Taliban said no. 100% justifiable.

Iraq? Not so much, I was not a fan of invasion then, now? Even worse in hindsight.
Agreed (though I think you quoted the wrong post of mine :)).
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member
I mean... wasn't the invasion of Iraq, under the Bush administration, widely considered to be the reason ISIS exists today? The blowback of that decision, to enter Iraq... If that hadn't happened... well.
False....its goes much further than that. Goes all the way to the 80s in which we trained rebels to help attack Iran and threw them aside later once we were done which created a negative sense of betrayal. Then add in all the continued activity in North Africa and middle east since then in which we did things that didn't win the hearts and minds of the people which include not thinking long term about drone strikes targets and being more precision based thus hitting some innocent and non ISIS households who then join ISIS because we hit their wife/daughter/son because we don't care about civilian causalities.
 

OneofThree

Well-Known Member
But ISIS did not form until after events of 2003 and beyond.
"2011 - Libyan revolution becomes part of the so-called "Arab Spring" authored by the West. Under the guise of bringing "freedom & democracy" to Libya, the CIA destabilized their legitimate, sovereign government. Obama then ordered air strikes against the country. (Wait a minute -we're illegally attacking some foreign nation -shocker). As is our habit, we funded, trained, and armed Al Qaeda jihadists (specifically Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad ) to topple the government. This group became what we now refer to as "ISIS". Through this group, Libyan president Muammar Gaddafi would be executed without a trial (trial for God only knows what). Despite the fact that Libya had the highest standard of living of any country on the continent, the media blitz sold the line that this was a "humanitarian mission". Wonder why they didn't choose to use those resources to combat the ongoing genocide in Nigeria, Sudan, or Congo? Interesting how Benghazi plays into this, but that's a story for another day. Long story short, Libya is now a violent cesspool of a nation. The weapons used to topple Libya were then funneled through Turkey to Syria to be used to overthrow their sovereign government despite the denial of such activity from Washington. Fast forward to Syria. As was the case in Iraq and Afghanistan, we somehow assumed that we could control these lunatics. ISIS became a public relations nightmare and eventually turned back. The US State dept came out and said that we were then only funding "moderate" rebels. WT_ is a moderate rebel lunatic who can't wait to meet his 10,000 virgins? The problem for the US is that the "Free Syria Army" worked hand-in-hand with Al Qaeda, both with the goal of seeing Syria ruled under Sharia. "

Something I wrote previously.
 
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