General political chat

[willtravel]

Certainly no other nation besides the US has literally fought a war and maintained so many troops in the region for years, at least in part, to protect the Kurds in Iraq.

Like I said, no matter what, who, or how troops are in that area, there will always be war. Has been, will be. I do not feel we are a police force. I think we have done more than enough and I think it is time for NATO or whoever to step for and take our place. JMO

 

[Slpy3270]

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You're being incredibly reductive and inaccurate. Anyone who's been to Jordan, Qatar, or Turkey can tell you how wildly far-fetched your comparison to IS is. Even Saudi Arabia doesn't merit being equated with the hellish and apocalyptic polity that IS created. That the majority of IS's victims are Muslims underscores the fallacy of conflating the region's various expressions of Islam.

Given that those countries are as restrictive towards abortion, LGBT marriage and religious diversity as ISIS is, the comparison isn't "far-fetched" at all.

BTW, guess where ISIS gets its money from? Spoiler alert: Qatar! Our so-called "ally."

Besides, continued panic over ISIS is just gonna give those white supremacist lowlifes more ammunition over the narrative. The inflated panic over ISIS is precisely why Republicans, and by extension Europeans, were willing to embrace racism and xenophobic eliminationism to begin with, and we keep falling for it.

 

[willtravel]

You want to volunteer to go?

Ohhhhhhhh, I like this part. Totally agree.

 

[willtravel]

9/11 was an absolute tragedy and justice needed to be met. But... wasn’t it due to mistakes the US made that resulted in the situation we are now in with the Middle East? The rise or ISIS etc?

Just wondering , what mistake did the US make?

 

[LittleBuford]

Are you upset with Trump, or with european countries?

From your posts last night, you appear to be putting a lot of weight on the shoulders of the US.. and quite willing to let Americans die, because they “owe” the people there.

I haven't mentioned Trump once.

As usual, you're imagining things rather than responding to anything I've posted. My sole reference to the US last night was to sum up the situation for someone who didn't seem familiar with it:

From the foregoing, it seems you think people are calling on the US to send troops to Rojava to protect it from Turkey. Not at all. American soldiers are already there and have been so for years in alliance with the Kurds. They have only now started to withdraw, much to the dismay of the Kurds who are about to bear the brunt of the Turkish army.

My very first post on this topic made a deliberate point of referring to the international community at large:

The Kurds are going to suffer badly once the Turkish army moves in. After all they did to fight ISIS, they deserve the international community’s support and protection. And they’re not the only ones who are going to pay the price: an ISIS resurgence would have devastating consequences for the region and for the world at large.

And I elaborated on this point earlier today:

I wrote “international community” for a reason. The responsibility should not fall on the US alone. The entire world owes the Kurds for their inestimable role in fighting ISIS.

Now to come to your next accusation:

you appear . . . quite willing to let Americans die, because they “owe” the people there.

Please refer to the first of my responses to you today:

The argument people are making is that Turkey wouldn’t dare to invade Syria to begin with if American troops weren’t withdrawing. And indeed it wouldn’t.

Again, I am not calling on Americans (or anyone else) to fight the Turkish army. On the contrary, I'm saying that Turkey wouldn't be invading the region to begin with if the international community stood by the Kurds.

To conclude this tedious but necessary post with an appeal that I know will fall on deaf ears: please, for goodness' sake, stop claiming I've said things that my own posts disprove.

 

[Slpy3270]

Just wondering , what mistake did the US make?

Backing Israel, which is dehumanizing Palestinians more and more as the years go on.

 

[willtravel]

^^^^^JYO. Which is fine.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Just wondering , what mistake did the US make?

I mean... wasn't the invasion of Iraq, under the Bush administration, widely considered to be the reason ISIS exists today? The blowback of that decision, to enter Iraq... If that hadn't happened... well.

 

[willtravel]

Backing Israel, which is dehumanizing Palestinians more and more as the years go on.

But is that what DisneyAnalyst referring to?

 

[LittleBuford]

I mean... wasn't the invasion of Iraq, under the Bush administration, widely considered to be the reason ISIS exists today? The blowback of that decision, to enter Iraq... If that hadn't happened... well.

The UK, too, was involved in that ill-advised invasion.

 

[Disney Analyst]

The UK, too, was involved in that ill-advised invasion.

Would you say this was likely an outcome of pressure by the US and potential obligations as an ally?

 

[LittleBuford]

Would you say this was likely an outcome of pressure by the US and potential obligations as an ally?

No, I wouldn’t. Tony Blair, who was prime minister at the time, was all for it.

 

[willtravel]

I mean... wasn't the invasion of Iraq, under the Bush administration, widely considered to be the reason ISIS exists today? The blowback of that decision, to enter Iraq... If that hadn't happened... well.

Not sure all about Desert Storm but Iraqi decided to invade Kuwait and the US plus 40 other countries ( including Canada) went to defend Kuwait but because we decided to defend Kuwait that is why 9/11 happened and no other country?

The war became known by its military name Operation Desert Storm. The Allies consisted of troops and support from almost 40 countries including from the Middle East, Europe, Britain and Asia Pacific.

 

[aw14]

Backing Israel, which is dehumanizing Palestinians more and more as the years go on.

Probably not the best argument to start on Yom Kippur. Additionally, your statement is quite overly generalized and not specific.

 

[LittleBuford]

Not sure all about Desert Storm but Iraqi decided to invade Kuwait and the US plus 40 other countries ( including Canada) went to defend Kuwait but because we decided to defend Kuwait that is why 9/11 happened and no other country?

The war became known by its military name Operation Desert Storm. The Allies consisted of troops and support from almost 40 countries including from the Middle East, Europe, Britain and Asia Pacific.

You're referring to the Gulf War of 1990-1991, whereas @Disney Analyst is talking about the invasion of Iraq that toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003.

 

[LittleBuford]

Probably not the best argument to start on Yom Kippur. Additionally, your statement is quite overly generalized and not specific.

A Happy Yom Kippur to you and all other Jewish forumites!

 

[Disney Analyst]

Not sure all about Desert Storm but Iraqi decided to invade Kuwait and the US plus 40 other countries ( including Canada) went to defend Kuwait but because we decided to defend Kuwait that is why 9/11 happened and no other country?

The war became known by its military name Operation Desert Storm. The Allies consisted of troops and support from almost 40 countries including from the Middle East, Europe, Britain and Asia Pacific.

You're referring to the Gulf War of 1990-1991, whereas @Disney Analyst is talking about the invasion of Iraq that toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003.

Thanks! I’m really just inquiring; as I’m not the most knowledgeable about it and I am sure some on here can help elaborate how the middle east got to where it and why ISIS even came to be.

I was under the impression it is greatly related to decisions made by the US during the Bush era.

 

[Willmark]

Thanks! I’m really just inquiring; as I’m not the most knowledgeable about it and I am sure some on here can help elaborate how the middle east got to where it and why ISIS even came to be.

I was under the impression it is greatly related to decisions made by the US during the Bush era.

It’s related to the redrawing of the map at the end of WWI of which the UK and France (largely) got their way with the Middle East.

This is a pretty good high level explanation:

Europe, Middle East map redrawn by World War I

Europe, Middle East map redrawn by World War I

www.france24.com

The involvement of the US is really just the last actions from outside the regions in a long chain.

 

[willtravel]

You're referring to the Gulf War of 1990-1991, whereas @Disney Analyst is talking about the invasion of Iraq that toppled Saddam Hussein in 2003.

Oh, Ok. Then I stand corrected.

 

[Disney Analyst]

It’s related to the redrawing of the map at the end of WWI of which the UK and France (largely) got their way with the Middle East.

This is a pretty good high level explanation:

Europe, Middle East map redrawn by World War I

Europe, Middle East map redrawn by World War I

www.france24.com

The involvement of the US is really just the last actions from outside the regions in a long chain.

So that started the unrest, and then 2003 was the catalyst for the forming of modern day ISIS?