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General political chat

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
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Bill of Rights and later Amendments. To the Constitution. Not the Bill of Rights - they have never, nor can they be, amended. Amendments can be repealed and new amendments added, through a very clearly defined process.AFAIK, Prohibition is the only Amendment that has been repealed. It was quickly recognized that it was a "solution" to a problem that actually created more problems.
 

BuddyThomas

Premium Member
Bill of Rights and later Amendments. To the Constitution. Not the Bill of Rights - they have never, nor can they be, amended. Amendments can be repealed and new amendments added, through a very clearly defined process.AFAIK, Prohibition is the only Amendment that has been repealed. It was quickly recognized that it was a "solution" to a problem that actually created more problems.
Well! The more you know....thanks!
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
So here's a Canadian question for American's... should the Bill of Rights be adjusted as time goes on and the future changes? Is there no room for slight adjustment anywhere? Is it set in stone, the values from way back when? Just curious, I am not advocating changing your countries values, but it also seems strange to not be willing to rewrite or adjust things as time goes on.
Sure there are two ways to amend the constitution. One way has been done multiple times previously, the other? Never.

1. An amendment can be repealed (only done with the 19th- ie Prohibition). All other amendments after the first ten (The Bill of Rights) have been new amendments independent of the first ten, adding new rights or superseding parts of amendments or the constitution itself.

2. The second way is less well known and has never happened: a Constitutional Convention (alternative called a National Convention). If I remember correctly based on the number of states currently, 34 are required to call a Constitution Convention with 38 the results would be binding across all 50. EDIT: 38 not 37; it’s all covered under Article V of the Constitution.

Since it’s never been done before there is some question as to what it would look like. AFAICR the Legislature of each state gets a single vote to call forth a Convention and same with voting on any matter put forth to be voted on.

Edit #2: the process is outlined here but again as to how it would look or work? Especially in today’s hyper partisan age?
 
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Willmark

Well-Known Member
You’re going to have to let us know how things are in 2929. Anything like the conveyor belt at the end of Space Mountain or the last scene in Carousel of Progress? 😜
You’ll note I did correct the typo while simultaneously dealing with the trolling of Club Cools.
 
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Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Sure there are two ways to amend the constitution. One way has been done multiple times previously, the other? Never.

1. An amendment can be repealed (only done with the 19th- ie Prohibition). All other amendments after the first ten (The Bill of Rights) have been new amendments independent of the first ten, adding new rights or superseding parts of amendments or the constitution itself.

2. The second way is less well known and has never happened: a Constitutional Convention (alternative called a National Convention). If I remember correctly based on the number of states currently, 34 are required to call a Constitution Convention with 38 the results would be binding across all 50. EDIT: 38 not 37; it’s all covered under Article V of the Constitution.

Since it’s never been done before there is some question as to what it would look like. AFAICR the Legislature of each state gets a single vote to call forth a Convention and same with voting on any matter put forth to be voted on.

Edit #2: the process is outlined here but again as to how it would look or work? Especially in today’s hyper partisan age?
Thanks for responding seriously and with detail. Appreciate it. Interesting stuff you showcased.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
No problem, happy to help.
And now that I've done further research myself, I understand why people say you cannot alter the bill of rights... which is considered the first 10 amendments. But theoretically you can add amendments that could nullify any amendment in the constitution? Like has happened with prohibition.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
Bill of Rights and later Amendments. To the Constitution. Not the Bill of Rights - they have never, nor can they be, amended. Amendments can be repealed and new amendments added, through a very clearly defined process.AFAIK, Prohibition is the only Amendment that has been repealed. It was quickly recognized that it was a "solution" to a problem that actually created more problems.
Correct.

A good example is the 12th amendment modifying the Constitution (because it wasn’t quite clear what problems were inherent in the system as devised) with the election of the President and Vice President. The 12th itself was in turn was superseded by the 20th and changed further still by the 21st (to a degree).

And yes the only Amendment to be repealed was the 19th.

The 19th is a perfect example of why banning things are a bad idea at a Constitutional level and strangely relevant today. It taught an entire generation of Americans the possibility for disregarding the law, gave rise to organized crime that took 60-70 years to break.

It was a bad idea born of good intentions. And we all know (or should); “the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.”
 

Grimley1968

Well-Known Member
And now that I've done further research myself, I understand why people say you cannot alter the bill of rights... which is considered the first 10 amendments. But theoretically you can add amendments that could nullify any amendment in the constitution? Like has happened with prohibition.
Prohibition was the only amendment I can recall that proscribed individual rights. All others protect individual rights, unless I’m mistaken. Besides causing massive social disruption, the 18th Amendment was unpopular because of this unusual limiting of freedom. I’m amazed it took as long as it did to repeal that. I think it’s far, far less likely we’d ever have an amendment that would limit rights that previous amendments protect.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
And now that I've done further research myself, I understand why people say you cannot alter the bill of rights... which is considered the first 10 amendments. But theoretically you can add amendments that could nullify any amendment in the constitution? Like has happened with prohibition.
Yep you can supersede an amendment ie repeal it, but the first ten in terms of changing it? No.

Amendments can also be used to change the text of the Constitution itself, check the example I gave a post ago about the 12th.

To a lot people it’s confusing because they didn’t or don’t understand the founders intent: a fairly weak federal government. In fact the first attempt at a framework, the Articles of Confederation was too weak. So they went back and drew up what we currently have but all the while mindful of spreading out power across the the government and the states.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
Yep you can supersede an amendment ie repeal it, but the first ten in terms of changing it? No.

Amendments can also be used to change the text of the Constitution itself, check the example I gave a post ago about the 12th.

To a lot people it’s confusing because they didn’t or don’t understand the founders intent: a fairly weak federal government. In fact the first attempt at a framework, the Articles of Confederation was too weak. So they went back and drew up what we currently have but all the while mindful of spreading out power across the the government and the states.
Understood. All very fascinating.
 
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