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General political chat

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
It really bothers me that this notion is seen as "isolationist". It is just common sense. There is a stark difference between cutting the rest of the world off versus constantly propping them up.

It also reminds me of what I mentioned a few days ago. We spend $3.8B a year on Israel's border protection - and $5.7B (or, we keep forgetting, the $2.5M they were reportedly offered when Pence tried to compromise before the shutdown) for our own borders.
So you think it will only cost $5.7 billion to achieve what Trump promised regarding the wall?
 

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
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I totally agree with many of your sentiments. If the US can prevent another world war by our presence and by the threat of NATO it would be worth it. Big if with some the unreliable members of NATO.

But like you I do not want to send our any of our sons to protect countries, mostly unappreciative primarily western European nations, that won't even pay their fair share and seem to hate us as much as they do the Russians.

There is not way I want our nation to go to war for Latvia, Estonia, Montenegro, and especially Turkey. There are days I feel the same about Germany and France.

I do believe Trump throws our the threat of leaving NATO to get some of them to pay up.

If we keep exporting oil and begin supplying Europe with gas, Putin and the Russians will be squeezed more than they are now. How desperate will they become?
You liked my post and I liked yours??? Uh oh...people are going to start talking about us.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
So you think it will only cost $5.7 billion to achieve what Trump promised regarding the wall?
No, I am talking about the allotment for this year that was requested. And I directly compared it to the yearly allotment that we spend on Israel's border security.

I haven't seen anyone, including Trump, who thought this would all be done in one swoop. Naturally, just as we have historically, you add to it incrementally.
 

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
No, I am talking about the allotment for this year that was requested. And I directly compared it to the yearly allotment that we spend on Israel's border security.

I haven't seen anyone, including Trump, who thought this would all be done in one swoop. Naturally, just as we have historically, you add to it incrementally.
Thanks for the clarification. I am still 100% against it and will still say that there is no chance for us ever seeing a wall like Trump promised.
 

Jim S

Well-Known Member
You liked my post and I liked yours??? Uh oh...people are going to start talking about us.

No I think there has been enough water under that bridge for people to think we are going to start liking each other. It is nice to agree once every two or three years.
 

Prince-1

Well-Known Member
No I think there has been enough water under that bridge for people to think we are going to start liking each other. It is nice to agree once every two or three years.
Yeah, anymore than that and we could call the people at Guinness.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
I generally agree with all your commentary on the state of the relationships, but couldn't it also be said that the reason there HASN'T been another war to get involved in defending Europe is precisely because of our pact to defend those countries?

Would it be nice for them to be able to present that deterrent to Russia or others on their own, absolutely. But world stability is acting in our own interest. War in Europe is very bad for the US whether we fight in it or not. And our presence in the batter's box (sorry for the sports metaphor) is much of what has kept the very tenuous peace since WWII isn't it?
The threat of US bombs/nukes kept the peace so yes I agree to a point.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
The second of those wars, which the US entered only after being attacked itself, encompassed far more than Europe and shows the impossibility of compartmentalising global affairs in this way.

(ETA: Forgive my poor phrasing. The sentence above inadvertently suggests that WW1 wasn't global in extent, which of course it was.)
I understood your meaning.

It could be argued in both cases certainly WWII that it was two large wars that happened at the same time. The allies cooperated but there was minimal between Germany and Japan.
 

Willmark

Well-Known Member
I agree with some of what you say but not all of it. We should pull our military out of Europe, they are rich enough to defend themselves and don't need out military to defend them. However we are one of many countries in the world and we all need each other. There has to be a way we can live with everyone else and they can live with us. Europe and the rest of the world should not tell us how to live and we should not tell them how to live.
I have zero intresting in telling Europe how to live. I’m not convinced the reverse is true.
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
No. What’s shocking in 2019 is that anyone calling themselves Christian actually condones this. But then again, so many of them support a pathological lying adulterer who has cheated on every single one of his multiple wives and pays off **** stars. So I guess these people are just selective in what “sins” they condemn and which are just fine and dandy!

PS - this school’s theatre and English departments must really suck.
She should have applied to work at a mosque instead.
 

BuddyThomas

Premium Member
Sure. Christian teacher teaching at a Christian school. They are also not okay with heterosexuals having sex outside of marriage. But what do you think of Muslims in government then if this irks you? Do their teachings bother you as well? Do you equally discriminate against all religions?
Nice way to try flipping it, but that doesn’t work here. And what do Muslims in government have to do with this? I’m just calling attention to the fact that the wife of a homophobic vice president has taken a job at a homophobic school. And you start ranting and raving about religious discrimination and Muslims?? I swear, some of you people on here are truly something else.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I understood your meaning.

It could be argued in both cases certainly WWII that it was two large wars that happened at the same time. The allies cooperated but there was minimal between Germany and Japan.
But Germany declared war on the US a few days after the US declared war on Japan. I don't see how the two situations are separable.
 

BuddyThomas

Premium Member
More about Mother’s new place of employment.

This place sounds AWESOME!

From The NY Times:

“In many ways, the religious beliefs set forth by Immanuel Christian School resemble those taught at religious schools across the country. But Elizabeth Shakman Hurd, a professor of politics and religion at Northwestern University, said that the school’s requirements appeared more extreme than other religious schools and noted that not all Christians would agree with them.

She said that Mrs. Pence’s choice of employment was not surprising because the school’s values appeared to mirror those of the Trump administration.

“Given the exclusionary nationalism in this administration and sorts of politics taken on various things, it would not be at all surprising for the second lady to associate herself with some prominent fashion with an institution like this,” Professor Hurd said. “It raises important issues about education and diversity, and what kind of forward-facing public officials we want representing our country at home and abroad.”

Since at least 2013, when the Pences left Washington and returned to Indiana, the school’s employment application has required prospective teachers to agree to its “Articles of Employment,” according to its website. Its 2013 application clearly articulated the school’s stance on sexual identity: “Homosexual acts and lifestyles are clearly perversion and reprehensible in the sight of God. Persons so involved cannot be employees of Immanuel Christian School.”

Some parts of the applications have remained the same. For instance, a question-and-answer portion has asked over the years: “Explain your view of the creation/evolution debate.” Ms. Brooks did not respond to questions about Mrs. Pence’s views on evolution and creationism.

Immanuel Christian School does not state its views on evolution on its website, but it contains clues. A middle-school science teacher asked parents this month to pray for students who were about to study the topic. “We will also study the importance of Origins and why having an intelligent, loving Designer is crucial to our world view,” the teacher wrote.

The students, the teacher wrote, were expected to travel in March on a field trip to the Creation Museum in Kentucky, which portrays the Bible as a book of history, asserts that the universe is 6,000 years old and claims that humans coexisted with dinosaurs. Science, on the other hand, has established that the universe is billions of years old — dinosaurs became extinct about 66 million years ago — and humans did not roam the earth with T-rex.”
 

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Premium Member
Nice way to try flipping it, but that doesn’t work here. And what do Muslims in government have to do with this? I’m just calling attention to the fact that the wife of a homophobic vice president has taken a job at a homophobic school. And you start ranting and raving about religious discrimination and Muslims?? I swear, some of you people on here are truly something else.
I’m just trying to understand where you draw the line. You’re getting upset over the second lady working at a school that follows orthodox Christian teachings. So how do you feel about eleceted officials within your own party that follow their religions traditional teachings? I just used the Muslim religion as an example because we know what their stance is on homosexuality.
 

BuddyThomas

Premium Member
I’m just trying to understand where you draw the line. You’re getting upset over the second lady working at a school that follows orthodox Christian teachings. So how do you feel about eleceted officials within your own party that follow their religions traditional teachings? I just used the Muslim religion as an example because we know what their stance is on homosexuality.
You can disagree with certain aspects of your religion. I was raised as a Southern Baptist and disagreed with pretty much all of that.

Since they are Levitical Christians, I wonder if they ban people with tattoos or people who eat shellfish, because those are stoneable offenses.

Anyway, it doesn’t matter because we are dealing with the Pences, a couple who would shun gay school children and yet suppport a married man who has sex with p**n stars.
 
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